UK Politics #5

[Blueblue123]

I looked it up and the Equality Act currently allows organisations to impose single sex spaces with good reason, I imagine the safety of women and girls fall under that. But ultimately, it's down to organisations how they address sex and gender.

As of July this year, this was Labour's stance on it

Labour will overhaul an “outdated” law to make it easier for transgender people to transition while maintaining protections for single-sex spaces, the party’s chair and shadow equalities secretary has said.

They also don't eem to be proposing a merging of gender and sex, which seems to be the basis of most concerns

Labour on the topic of gender and sex, Dodds said: “We need to recognise that sex and gender are different – as the Equality Act does. We will make sure that nothing in our modernised gender recognition process would override the single-sex exemptions in the Equality Act.

“Put simply, this means that there will always be places where it is reasonable for biological women only to have access. Labour will defend those spaces, providing legal clarity for the providers of single-sex services.”

Labour vows to ‘modernise, simplify and reform’ Gender Recognition Act

Party chair says since act was passed by party in 2004, there is now a ‘much better understanding of the barriers trans people face’

www.google.com

It looks like with regard to single sex spaces, there won't be any change. So we'll have the same situation we have now.

 

[monga]

I looked it up and the Equality Act currently allows organisations to impose single sex spaces with good reason, I imagine the safety of women and girls fall under that. But ultimately, it's down to organisations how they address sex and gender.

As of July this year, this was Labour's stance on it

Labour will overhaul an “outdated” law to make it easier for transgender people to transition while maintaining protections for single-sex spaces, the party’s chair and shadow equalities secretary has said.

They also don't eem to be proposing a merging of gender and sex, which seems to be the basis of most concerns

Labour on the topic of gender and sex, Dodds said: “We need to recognise that sex and gender are different – as the Equality Act does. We will make sure that nothing in our modernised gender recognition process would override the single-sex exemptions in the Equality Act.

“Put simply, this means that there will always be places where it is reasonable for biological women only to have access. Labour will defend those spaces, providing legal clarity for the providers of single-sex services.”

Labour vows to ‘modernise, simplify and reform’ Gender Recognition Act

Party chair says since act was passed by party in 2004, there is now a ‘much better understanding of the barriers trans people face’

www.google.com

It looks like with regard to single sex spaces, there won't be any change. So we'll have the same situation we have now.

In other words they’re adding a third gender!

 

[thegirlscout]

It doesn't stop them, it still happens whether there is a sign on the door or not. Your own stats show there are still sexual assault complaints in single sex facilities.

It doesn’t stop them but it helps prevent them. You can never stop rape or other forms of sexual assault but there are ways to minimise the damage.

 

[knivesnflowers]

They are not women in any shape or form..Look at what’s going on in the wider trans world ,from fake menstruation to having things inserted internally to mimic giving birth ( butt babies ) even womb transplants being looked at, just because you haven’t come across any doesn’t mean it’s not there.

that's an opinion you're entitled to, not a fact. as i said, i've *personally* yet to come across any of that because i don't trawl the internet to score points with 'see!!!' examples of a minority within a minority.

anyway, trans or cis woman, who does someone else's womb transplant actually harm? because it's certainly not you

 

[monga]

that's an opinion you're entitled to, not a fact. as i said, i've *personally* yet to come across any of that because i don't trawl the internet to score points with 'see!!!' examples of a minority within a minority.

anyway, trans or cis woman, who does someone else's womb transplant actually harm? because it's certainly not you

It’s not point scoring it’s being responsible to what laws will apply to us once these policies are passed.

 

[Blueblue123]

In other words they’re adding a third gender!

Seems similar to what the Tories are proposing to be honest....

The equalities minister, Kemi Badenoch, wants to make a clearer distinction in law between those who are born a particular sex and those who transition or identify as a gender different from their birth one.

What would changing the Equality Act mean for trans people and single-sex spaces?

Kemi Badenoch is considering amending the act to define people’s sex as biological sex in England, Scotland and Wales

www.google.com

 

[knivesnflowers]

It’s not point scoring it’s being responsible to what laws will apply to us once these policies are passed.

but they don't apply to you, they apply to trans people

 

[monga]

Seems similar to what the Tories are proposing to be honest....

The equalities minister, Kemi Badenoch, wants to make a clearer distinction in law between those who are born a particular sex and those who transition or identify as a gender different from their birth one.

What would changing the Equality Act mean for trans people and single-sex spaces?

Kemi Badenoch is considering amending the act to define people’s sex as biological sex in England, Scotland and Wales

www.google.com

Don’t you think that’s a very important part of society knowing what these changes mean for you and your son and daughter? Something as important as sex / gender shouldn’t be taken lightly, tbh looking at what’s being pushed as normal to preteens/ teens today is shocking imo.
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but they don't apply to you, they apply to trans people

The laws will apply to everyone!

 

[Blueblue123]

Labour doesn't seem to want to go down the SNP route which is what seems to worry people

Dodds accused the Scottish National party of a “cavalier approach” to reforming gender recognition laws, following the Scottish government’s drive to support a system of self-identification that was endorsed by Holyrood but blocked by the UK government.

Labour vows to ‘modernise, simplify and reform’ Gender Recognition Act

Party chair says since act was passed by party in 2004, there is now a ‘much better understanding of the barriers trans people face’

www.google.com

Like I say, I'm failing to see how a vote for Labour means the removal of my rights as a woman and trumps the need to get our current government out of power.

 

[monga]

Labour doesn't seem to want to go down the SNP route which is what seems to worry people

Dodds accused the Scottish National party of a “cavalier approach” to reforming gender recognition laws, following the Scottish government’s drive to support a system of self-identification that was endorsed by Holyrood but blocked by the UK government.

Labour vows to ‘modernise, simplify and reform’ Gender Recognition Act

Party chair says since act was passed by party in 2004, there is now a ‘much better understanding of the barriers trans people face’

www.google.com

Like I say, I'm failing to see how a vote for Labour means the removal of my rights as a woman and trumps the need to get our current government out of power.

Transition to what? I’m assuming they mean a transwoman will have equal rights to female only spaces ? depending on what they’re transitioning too? That automatically undermines a biological woman’s right to have safe spaces , if they object to a bloke in a frock the law is against them.

 

[knivesnflowers]

Don’t you think that’s a very important part of society knowing what these changes mean for you and your son and daughter? Something as important as sex / gender shouldn’t be taken lightly, tbh looking at what’s being pushed as normal to preteens/ teens today is shocking imo.
---

The laws will apply to everyone!

it's absolutely normal to be trans though...? no one chooses to be trans like no one chooses to be gay.

and yes, the law applies to everyone but doesn't affect me because i'm not trans. like in the same way that i don't earn enough to pay 40% tax

 

[monga]

it's absolutely normal to be trans though...? no one chooses to be trans like no one chooses to be gay.

and yes, the law applies to everyone but doesn't affect me because i'm not trans. like in the same way that i don't earn enough to pay 40% tax

Yes it’s normal to be trans to a trans person.difference is the law will make it so nobody can object to any man that identifies as female ( because they have on women’s clothing) entering biological women’s spaces and that’s wrong imo.

 

[knivesnflowers]

Yes it’s normal to be trans to a trans person.

exactly - no one is indoctrinating kids into a trans cult. just like no one was suddenly forcing americans born in the 1900s to write with their left hand. it's become more 'popular' and visible because people are allowed to make lifestyle changes that more accurately reflect how they feel

 

[monga]

exactly - no one is indoctrinating kids into a trans cult. just like no one was suddenly forcing americans born in the 1900s to write with their left hand. it's become more 'popular' and visible because people are allowed to make lifestyle changes that more accurately reflect how they feel

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Or maybe it’s a cool thing to do like all the other cool teen stuff how would a toddler identify as a particular gender ? How have there been an uptick in celeb kids ( mostly adopted ) identifying as a particular gender before they’re even out of nappies I’m sure there are genuine cases that truly struggle and have a life of misery because of confusion, there’s also those that just jump on these bandwagons and end up with an equally miserable life because they didn’t really understand it all to begin with.

 

[Blueblue123]

Transition to what? I’m assuming they mean a transwoman will have equal rights to female only spaces ? depending on what they’re transitioning too? That automatically undermines a biological woman’s right to have safe spaces , if they object to a bloke in a frock the law is against them.

That's not how I'm interpreting it. They explicitly say the changes won't overrule the system we have today.

Labour on the topic of gender and sex, Dodds said: “We need to recognise that sex and gender are different – as the Equality Act does. We will make sure that nothing in our modernised gender recognition process would override the single-sex exemptions in the Equality Act.

They want to make the process to identify as a new gender less complicated, but from what I can tell the outcome is the same. So it's easier on transpeople but I can't see anything to suggest it changes things for non transpeople.

In a article for the Guardian, she wrote that Labour would streamline the current medical diagnosis rules, calling them "demeaning".

Labour drops pledge to introduce self-ID for trans people

The party says it will keep a requirement for a medical diagnosis to change legal sex if it wins power.

www.google.com

 

[Piff paff puff]

no one chooses to be trans

They literally choose

 

[monga]

That's not how I'm interpreting it. They explicitly say the changes won't overrule the system we have today.



They want to make the process to identify as a new gender less complicated, but from what I can tell the outcome is the same. So it's easier on transpeople but I can't see anything to suggest it changes things for non transpeople.

In a article for the Guardian, she wrote that Labour would streamline the current medical diagnosis rules, calling them "demeaning".

Labour drops pledge to introduce self-ID for trans people

The party says it will keep a requirement for a medical diagnosis to change legal sex if it wins power.

www.google.com

But of course they will ,these people will transition into one sex or another, they should be focusing on MH support and not handing immature children puberty blockers that will have a lasting impact on their whole life , have you looked into these surgeries and the catastrophic damage they do?

 

[knivesnflowers]

They literally choose

they choose how to express themselves sure, in the same way i pick out an outfit in the morning, but they don't choose to have gender dysphoria and be an 'other' to the point where people want then ostracised from society. why can a cis man have gender affirming care in the form of a hair transplant or viagra, a cis woman with a boob job or lip filler but trans people can't choose that exact same procedure for themselves?

 

[Piff paff puff]

they choose how to express themselves sure, in the same way i pick out an outfit in the morning, but they don't choose to have gender dysphoria and be an 'other' to the point where people want then ostracised from society. why can a cis man have gender affirming care in the form of a hair transplant or viagra, a cis woman with a boob job or lip filler but trans people can't choose that exact same procedure for themselves?

From what I can see they are supported in an way that no group of people ever have been by society to such a degree that women's safety has been compromised. (Hospital wards, prisons, rape crisis centres).
And disregarding my personal view to any unnecessary invasive procedure the examples you gave there are minor compared to puberty blockers and amputation of healthy body parts, especially in young people who are being encouraged as a first solution and discouraged (and afaik illegal) to discuss not chemically and surgically changing themselves.

 

[HoGi]

they choose how to express themselves sure, in the same way i pick out an outfit in the morning, but they don't choose to have gender dysphoria and be an 'other' to the point where people want then ostracised from society. why can a cis man have gender affirming care in the form of a hair transplant or viagra, a cis woman with a boob job or lip filler but trans people can't choose that exact same procedure for themselves?

You don't have the have gender dysphoria to be trans anymore. So people do literally chose.