The Royal Family #41

[cee-bee]

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Will anybody be watching? I stopped at the end of the first Diana season because I found that season got boring towards the end. I liked the earlier seasons for the forgotten or important cultural & political stories of the time, with the family being the main characters that were woven into those stories and how they handled the times. When it just became about the stories of the family and that’s it, it got quite boring watching people constantly arguing. I think they thought people were far more interested in the Diana story than they are so have dragged it out, but by dragging it out they’ve done it a bit of a disservice if people are clicking off.

I thought the Diana stuff was great tbh. I didn’t have much faith in Emma Corrin because she didn’t look like Diana at all, but she did a pretty good job of capturing her accent and mannerisms.

Elizabeth Debicki is incredible.

there’s a scene where Charles and Diana are post divorce and sitting around a dining room table, and it’s a masterclass in dialogue and acting. It’s obviously fictional but the writing has perfectly captured the dynamic of two people with conflicting feelings and conflicting ideologies, and I think lent a lot of humanity to both Charles and Diana instead of turning their story into a pantomime with the poor innocent princess V the cruel, cold husband.

It was really powerful and emotive acting.

I think a lot of people don’t like Diana’s depiction in the crown because it’s almost became a loyalty thing. It’s Diana V the Crown. And anything sympathetic or at all focused on her becomes anti-crown.

I didn’t initially want to watch the crown because I thought it would be horribly sycophantic but I actually think it captures the humanity of the people involved while also acknowledging their flaws, privilege and ignorance. It’s a great TV show.

 

[elliebee27]

I have the impression Meghan lied a lot about her family. Nobody showed up to her wedding except her mother. She had no family. But she sure made certain to invite a bunch of A-listers nobody knew to prove she Made It Big!

 

[Great_Kate]

Tbh when they said there was concern I always took it as concern for his safety and protection from racism. Charles isn’t stupid and has worked with ethnic minorities most of his life, he knows the challenges and abuse they face daily and wouldn’t want that for his grandson. Meghan can’t be oblivious to colourism considering she’s mentioned she didn’t get treated like a black woman until she joined the royal family. If Archie had been born with darker skin it’s opening him up to a world of racism and daily unconscious bias that no parent or grandparent would want. Having the conversation of I’m worried and concerned that the darker his skin the more racism he will face, how do we handle this as a family and protect the baby from that should the situation arise, seems sensible for a family as global as they are.

I can’t see Charles being purposefully prejudice and racist when you look at the history of his work. Despite Harry thinking that simply marrying Meghan was enough to absolve him of his own racist past he’s never taken full accountability for it and will never be able to achieve the impact and change Charles has achieved for ethic minority youths with The Prices Trust.

THANK YOU! That is exactly what I thought might have happened. If anything this conversation is actually the one that definitely should have happened. There most definitely was a lot of ugly racism in some parts of the internet around M. So realising that this also could be true for their baby and talking about a strategy should have been a priority. No parent should read shit like that about their child and no child should be subjected to it. Ever.

I don’t think M was ever an Escort/Yacht girl. Looking for a high class boyfriend/husband? Maybe. But that’s not the same. And even if. As long as she did it out of her own accord it’s nobody’a business.

Working against racism doesn’t necessarily equal not displaying casual racism when it’s about your own family or having tons of unnoticed racial bias.
BUT having only white friends is not exactly a sign for being a racist either. If anything- going out and explicitly befriending someone to diversify your background is pretty racist in my opinion. If they make an effort NOT to meet POC that’s different. But if you just don’t meet one and hit it off that’s not racism. Charles meets a lot of people from different backgrounds/religions/skin colours. But that’s for work. Non of these people are going to be his friends. Same for the white people he meets in those instances.

The question of staff is a different one. I am not sure how I stand on quotas. But I am not against preference by colour to diversify when you have two people with the same capabilities applying. It’s complicated though. There are only a few top jobs and if no POC apply there is not much you can do apart from headhunting. But the most jobs are lower staff. Don’t think having a big mass of POC working as footmans and maids for a white RF would be a good look to be honest. It’s definitely a topic that needs dealing with, but the RF need to tread category and create a good set up.

 

[Honeystar]

Tbh I always thought Harry included the Spencer’s in things like the birth announcement and Archie’s christening just to further position himself as angel Diana’s son. I don’t know what it was, it all just felt a bit forced to me at the time and a way of making him seem like the “Spencer” son at a time when they were getting hit with tonnes of backlash and negative press it felt like a PR move to me

 

[Em_gardener]

yeh, bad stuff about the kids was always going to float around on the internet. That stuff is easy to shrug off and dismiss.

but the fact his dad used his birth to goad the press? That’s pretty hurtful and says a lot of Harry’s character, or lack thereof.

It also shows just how much resentment he has for sharing his life with the general public (he didn’t want to have to let Sara Latham know that Meghan was in labour, didn’t want to give press the heads up on his ), while simultaneously being desperate for good will from the general public. It sums up in a nutshell, the dilemma the Windsors have created for themselves.

because on one hand they believe they are special and better than the rest of us, while on the other hand they rely upon the plebs not rising against that and getting rid of them, as has happened globally in the last 100 years. They know they are on borrowed time and are beholden to the people they collectively think of as being lesser.

I don't think Archie is going to be affected by Harry's dealings with the media around his birth to be fair. He'll be brought up to hate the press anyway. Being cut off almost entirely from all his relatives apart from Doria will probably have a bigger impact.

 

[RoseintheSunshine]

I love Tattle and I love these threads. You’ve certainly all put a smile on my face with the comments

But those legs!! OMG!! To die for
William is one lucky man when he has those legs wrapped around him

 

[hannah123]

I’d disagree. She is pretty terrible as a role model. Not in the overt way like say, the Kardashians are.

but I’d say she’s bad in a more subtle way. What message does she send out? What does she inspire? Keep your head down, look pretty and marry well..? That’s exactly the opposite of what I would want younger generations to aspire to. Wait around a decade for a man to decide you’re worth marrying? Let him break up with you but only if his status is high enough and play mind games with him via the press if you can? Revolve your life and career around a man willing to dump you?

it’s just as bad as the kardashian’s money grabbing and exploiting women’s insecurities. It’s different, but just as damaging.

Why is it always seen as she waited around for him to marry her? They were in a long term relationship after meeting as teenagers and got engaged at 28 or 29. They had a small break up in the middle and came back together. It doesn’t seem unfathomable that two people who meet at the start of their adulthood could have a problem in their mid 20s when they’re growing up together through their relationship. They worked through it, got back together and have been married 12 years with 3 kids. If they got married and broke up a few years in I could maybe understand it, but at least to me, it seems like 2 rationale adults, taking the commitment very seriously and not rushing into anything.

I’ve been with my partner 10 years and we met when were 18/19 and I’d hate for people to think I’m waiting around for him to propose when it’s a conscious decision both of us have made, and I’m not even marrying into the spotlight of the world and press. There’s nothing to say Kate and William hadn’t also had those conversations at 24/25/26 about their future, or that Kate wasn’t the one driving the conversations to say she didn’t want to become a full time working royal wife at 25.

I don’t really see a problem with marrying to a standard you want. A lot of cultures around the world still do arranged marriages because they benefit the family and the two marrying each other, with the hope it grows to love. People said the same about Meghan, but they were both lucky enough to find men that provide a lifestyle they want & who they loved, good for them.

 

[cee-bee]

You can say that about anyone marrying into the Royal family though?

yeah… it’s a major criticism of the royal family as a whole. But at least Kate never claimed to be a progressive, independent, feminist woman. The bar has always been on the floor for Kate who has barely ever earned her own money.

Meghan used feminism as part of her personal brand. She claimed to be a strong feminist, with a strong set of feminist beliefs. Yet she seemed to be willing to surrender this all up in exchange for unearned titles and a job and money on the basis of who her husband is.

 

[Em_gardener]

I think Pippa and Zara looked really really nice. Especially Pippa’s suit.
Don’t care much about Cathrine‘s all white look. Reminds of a Bold and Beautiful Brooke or Taylor. I don’t know why or how this popped into my head. The series was on in the mornings here for a couple of years but I have no idea what happened in the beginning or afterwards. Might still be running? I just remember it was so crazy stupid but also highly entertaining to ten years old me staying at home from school being sick.
Beatrice looks like a dowdy country aristo. I can absolutely see this being something Kate would wear. And Eugenie looks like from the 2000s or 2010s but not in a good way (and I say this as someone who still wears a side parting/bands, skinny jeans and so on).

What's wrong with a side parting?!!! I've only just started to branch out from skinny jeans and now you're saying my side part is wrong too!

 

[cee-bee]

100% agree, its bloody pathetic that your judged by your social media output, I know people who regularly tell lies on it and make up shit to make them appear to have an amazing social, love and home life, Im aware that others who view it get sucked into it, while Ive got the savvy to see it for what it is and laugh at it, Catherine is everything we need in a future Queen, I love that she is predictable, solid, consistent and reliable and dignified

I think Kate is bland because she has never pursued anything meaningful. Nothing to do with her social media output.

I’m a pretty reserved, quiet person. No doubt lots of people would find me bland, too. Except I have a lot of interests and passions that I feel strongly about. I’ve had an interesting and varied career. I’ve travelled widely. I’ve volunteered and done actual work (not just gotten a briefing in a limo, shook some hands, cut a ribbon and gone home “work”.) I’ve mixed with people from all walks of life.

if someone asks me how I spent my 20s, I could say all of that.

if someone asked Kate how she spent her 20s?

it was mostly getting blow outs and shopping on the kings road, with the occasional luxury holiday and of course, following Prince William around. A Part time lip-service job so she can work around his schedule. He moved to remote Anglesey then so does she, and so on.
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Tbh, we have no idea what she is doing with her time when not at public engagements. For all we know she could be working 9-5 having meetings etc. I’d argue that getting her hair done, beauty regimes, working out to maintain her look etc are all part of her job too.

I don’t think they’re anything like me, nor do I want them to be. All I want the Royal Family to be is a group of people that other world leaders have an intrigue about so they want to meet them, so they hold a sort of soft power for the UK on a world stage.

As bad as this may sound, I really don’t care if they aren’t out and about every single day. I just don’t want to have someone like Boris Johnson, or Donald Trump, as my head of state.

And I’m glad they are political neutral. I literally could not give less of a shit what Kate’s opinions on the Tories or Labour are. That’s not the job. Her job is to represent the UK on a world stage, and to support charities at home. If she also wants to spend time with her children when they’re young I don’t begrudge that. If she’s in a position where she can then fair play to her tbh

I feel there’s a better middle ground rather than it must be royalty or we get trump as a president.

for one, the American presidential system is partisan and not one we’d strictly be bound to. It wouldn’t fit neatly into our parliamentary system anyway. The states model of governance is entirely different to the UK’s and there’s no reason why we’d ever adopt the US system.

a more likely model would be the Irish one - whereby we’d have a prime minister (they have a Taoiseach) and a directly elected president who fulfilled ceremonial roles. The Irish system has a president who basically does all the things the monarch in the U.K. does (appoints government, passes bills, etc).
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I've no idea what she's like away from the cameras but she's not an embarrassment to the RF and sometimes "bland" is preferable to being outspoken and divisive. What's so bad about being "palatable"? She's not a reality TV star.

because women have been conditioned to be bland, palatable, quiet and demure for centuries. And if a certain public role demands a woman to forgo any sort of personality then maybe that public role isn’t fit for purpose anymore?

Because we need female public figures who inspire young girls and women to be braver in speaking out. Not saying Kate should have strong political opinions or court controversy, but there’s a happier middle ground. Women who speak out on matters that are important to them. Women who lead the way. Women who care about other women.

 

[Honeystar]

I do think there’s a lot more that goes into royal engagements than just the hour or two that they are there which is why I don’t necessarily think purely judging them on how often they are seen in public is a fair assessment of their work.

That being said, I struggle to see how people can repeatedly claim that someone who worked for 72 days in a role was such a hard worker and totally dedicated to the role.

 

[cee-bee]

The next one is very good imo

I dunno, I watched the Willmania episode and out of all the seasons this feels the most unbelievable and ridiculous.

All of a sudden the men of the family have miraculously become emotionally intelligent and self aware despite decades of being the opposite. And despite never coming across this way IRL.

Then we have Kate Middleton gazing wistfully out of the window at William while working as a waitress, while being told in effect that she’s not posh enough to date Will. The same girl who went to one of the most expensive private schools in the country, whose parents bought her an entire flat to herself in Chelsea no less. Aye, she did a couple of waitressing shifts and just became one of the people.


the actors playing william and Kate are wooden and awkward and unlikeable but… are actually doing a good job of portraying their subjects so there’s that.

it’s all very hallmark movie where Wills and Kate are concerned.

 

[cee-bee]

The fact is that whoever Harry married, the press were always going to pit her against Kate. When Meghan first came on the scene there were plenty of articles referencing her glamour in comparison to Kate’s more conservative style. The pendulum was swinging in Kates favour for the 18 months Meghan was a working royal but I’ve no doubt it would have swung both ways over the years had all the drama not gone down.

Even just writing that it’s crazy to realise she was only a married working member of the family for 18 months. I mean, that’s no time at all considering she was off on maternity leave in that too. It’s hard to accept that they really did make a go of it and feels much more like they ran at the first hurdle

yeh IIRC meghan was presented as this glam American set to modernise the royal family, whereas Kate was always presented as a dowdy “Sloane ranger”.

her first engagement was in May 2018 at The garden party, their last was March 2020 (but they’d already announced they’d leave in January and it was more of a wrap up event, so in reality it was about 19 months). So yep, not long at all. She did 179 engagements over those two years. According to famous hobbyist Tim O’Donovan (who assess the royal engagements per year for the times)

considering it’s her main job, she worked on average then, 9 days a month. Or 2 engagements and a bit per week. Considering an engagement for Meghan could typically last an hour or two … she worked maybe 3 hours a week. Most of the work involved just… meeting people.

for example in January, she visited a Mayhew dogs home in the afternoon, as reported by the daily Mail. By 1pm they’d posted it on their socials and by 2pm the mail had written up a story on it. So in all likelihood she arrived at 12 and had left by 1pm, freeing them up to write up the visit on social media. That counted as one engagement.

apparently this was an exhausting visit for her because, despite beaming and smiling while there, and despite the positive story that was released… she was apparently suicidal and crying on the floor by later that afternoon.

she then went to that now-infamous cirque du soleil performance at the royal Albert hall - another engagement that lasted an hour or two, and involved her just … watching a show.

not bad work if you ask me. A fairly easy gig actually, especially considering the perks of a free, newly renovated mansion and generous clothes allowance.

she never had any real intention of sticking it out. She barely did any real “work” as a royal. She bid her time, got pregnant, had the baby and some free designer dresses and she was ready to wrap up. She got what she came for.

 

[neroli]

What a nasty pair they are. Imagine how Archie will feel when he's old enough to understand how he's been used as a tool to create division and bitterness. He's done nothing wrong and shouldn't be treated as a target for alleged racism.

 

[Filouette]

Piers Morgan just named them on his show. It's all about to kick the fuck off and I'm just here for the drama

Oh he's removing their last remaining trump card. I'm so here for it.

 

[cee-bee]

To be honest though, IIRC Piers was one of the first public figures to publicly criticise Meghan.

I remember reading THAT daily mail article and feeling quite shocked because, despite all the drama with her dad… Meghan was still pretty popular at that point. That was at the end of 2018 and the couple still had a lot of goodwill then.

I think Morgan is a pretty shrewd, media savvy guy. He probably saw elements in the media which hinted the tide was going to turn for Megan and decided to jump ahead of the curve. I suspect there were personal reasons mixed with opportunism to be honest, I don’t think it has to be one or the other.

I do find it frustrating that the most vocal of meghans critics tend to be white, misogynist men. Maybe it’s just because they tend to have the platform. Maybe it’s because the sensible people not bothered by an outspoken woman (because Megan is fairly outspoken and likes blowing her own trumpet), aren’t that vocal or don’t make as big a splash in the news.

There are a lot of reasons to feel critical of Megan that aren’t landed in misogyny or racism or classicism and I hate that the likes of Piers Morgan, Jeremy Clarkson etc are the most obvious critics of her. Because they are pretty odious people themselves with lots to criticise at their door.

 

[Em_gardener]

I find it rather unfair that Kate is criticised for not supporting Meghan when for the entire time that Meghan was Harry’s girlfriend or living in the UK Kate was either pregnant or the mother of young children. Of course she didn’t have time to support Meghan and had other priorities…

What was she meant to do for her anyway? It sounds like they were invited to KP and Anmer and did the basics that anyone would do with a new sister in law. They're clearly polar opposites and were never going to be friends.

Harry was Williams best man. We all saw him beside him at the ceremony and I presume he signed the register as a witness. He says himself he made a speech later on and they were together the night before drinking. What else was Harry expecting from his best man role?

 

[Spid]

I would love it if William stripped them of all their titles when he ascends to the throne. Completely exiles them and leaves them totally and forever irrelevant. I think he is strong-willed enough to do it, The ultimate retribution.

Would be nice if he looked a bit closer to home and stripped his dirty uncle of his titles and much too big for him house.

 

[British Romance]

I would love it if William stripped them of all their titles when he ascends to the throne. Completely exiles them and leaves them totally and forever irrelevant. I think he is strong-willed enough to do it, The ultimate retribution.

 

[jkroche95]

we must do. All of the grooms I’ve known have been good friends and/or good friends of my partner.

not one ever got drunk the night before, or drunk the morning of to the extent someone claimed they reeked of booze.

a drink or two to ease the nerves, sure.

but reeking of booze and a night on the lash the night before? I couldn’t imagine anything more disrespectful.

a wedding day is one of the biggest life events a person can have. It’s supposed to be one of the happiest days of your life. It’s a solemn vow before friends and family. I can’t imagine how disrespectful it would feel, to have your fiancé rock up drunk and stinking of alcohol.

all the grooms I’ve known have been emotional and in love and very happy to be getting married though.

if I walked up to the Walter and my other half was hungover and smelled bad, I’d be so hurt. I’d honestly question if he wanted the marriage at all. I’d feel a little humiliated that he couldn’t hold it together.

but who said that happened to William? Harry. The same Harry said that said his book was his truth and not objective fact.

The same Harry that said his wife had gone 10 days overdue with their first baby, had two epidurals and was released from hospital less than an hour after birth. He also said that he himself used up all of the gas and air when it's actually piped up the walls.

The same Harry that contradicted himself in court weeks later, even the judge questioned the difference.

I don't believe anything that was written in that book.