The Moscow/Idaho Murders #4

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that's true and the prosecution of this case said in an email the following

The prosecution expected no need of the property going forward, Thompson wrote. “Based on our review of Idaho case law, the current condition of the premises is so substantially different than at the time of the homicides that a 'jury view' would not be authorized,” Thompson said.
Was that confirmed though? What if a juror requested to see it?
I know there's photos/ videos etc. But to stand and see what the perpetrator did and to see what the victims saw is quite pivotal is it not? For eg, with DM.... I'd want to stand where she stood and saw the perp, what exactly could she see etc. It seems quite crazy that they allowed this. Iv always felt the house was a witness and a 'character' (for Want of a better word) in this case. I think there's a lot of voyeuristic aspects to the case too, I feel it was easy for the perp to watch and wait and its a shame the jury couldn't have stepped into the area and seen and felt it for themselves.
 
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Was that confirmed though? What if a juror requested to see it?
I know there's photos/ videos etc. But to stand and see what the perpetrator did and to see what the victims saw is quite pivotal is it not? For eg, with DM.... I'd want to stand where she stood and saw the perp, what exactly could she see etc. It seems quite crazy that they allowed this. Iv always felt the house was a witness and a 'character' (for Want of a better word) in this case. I think there's a lot of voyeuristic aspects to the case too, I feel it was easy for the perp to watch and wait and its a shame the jury couldn't have stepped into the area and seen and felt it for themselves.
Jurors can't request to see the scene in Idaho. They would only have gone there if the prosecution or defence wanted to take them there. Both have said they don't want to do that, so the scene was released.
 
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Jurors can't request to see the scene in Idaho. They would only have gone there if the prosecution or defence wanted to take them there. Both have said they don't want to do that, so the scene was released.
I honestly think it's terrible they've done that. Onv just my opinion. But I think the house would have been so useful in the case
 
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You would think the house is a major piece of evidence. Its almost like saying well we've made a replica of the knife sheath for jurors to look at so lets just throw the actual sheath away.

I'm happy that the relatives and friends of the victims no longer see the house everyday but surely they could have fenced the building off to keep it out of sight.

I watched an interview with Peter Tragos yesterday and he made a point along the lines of what if BK somehow is found innocent and the state attempts to prosecute another person for the murders. The defense for this person would have no ability to collate photos etc. of the house. They'd be at a great disadvantage. I understand thats quite far-fetched but nothing is impossible.
 
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I felt quite emotional when I saw the video of the demolition. I thought it was a mistake when they were first going to do it and thought that it should be kept standing until the trial was over. Apparently the structure inside the house was changed quite significantly with sections of wall and flooring removed so it wouldn’t have resembled the original scene. I do feel like the outside of the house was important too. What could be seen of the house from where the car was parked etc. Photos and videos don’t give the same perspective. I understand why local people wanted the house gone but the house being gone doesn’t change what happened on site. I think the big gap where the house once stood will still be a reminder of the horrific acts that took place there. Apparently the Goncalves and Kernodle families were against this. I really feel for the families and hope that the trial can happen in the summer. They need to see justice done.
 
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I felt quite emotional when I saw the video of the demolition. I thought it was a mistake when they were first going to do it and thought that it should be kept standing until the trial was over. Apparently the structure inside the house was changed quite significantly with sections of wall and flooring removed so it wouldn’t have resembled the original scene. I do feel like the outside of the house was important too. What could be seen of the house from where the car was parked etc. Photos and videos don’t give the same perspective. I understand why local people wanted the house gone but the house being gone doesn’t change what happened on site. I think the big gap where the house once stood will still be a reminder of the horrific acts that took place there. Apparently the Goncalves and Kernodle families were against this. I really feel for the families and hope that the trial can happen in the summer. They need to see justice done.
I agree, just because it's demolished doesn't mean people will forget. I think the university has been really selfish and hasty in demolishing thus. It seems they don't want the bad press, but its one of the biggest cases in America right now. Just because the house isn't standing doesn't mean it will go away.
I dunno, I just feel really conflicted with this. The house always seemed so haunting, it's presence was so eery. I can imagine them all being watched through the windows. Gave me the heebie jeebies. And so I understand why some wanted it down, but I still think the absence of it will still stand out. You can never get away from the fact that 4 beautiful souls had their lives taken there no matter what you do with it. But I think the house was a massive piece of evidence that even technological couldn't replicate. I don't mean just the inside but also the outside. I think it was demolished too hastily really.
 
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I agree that knocking it down appears to be a mistake. Whilst you can virtually replicate the interior, having the potential to have a visit to see the site, the gradients and the viewpoints into the property cannot be replicated in a model. I agree with SG of better to have it and not need it than having it not available.
 
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The Goncalves family sent the below statement to media the day before demolition

PLEASE STOP THE DEMOLITION OF THE KING ROAD HOME!

The Goncalves Family has reached out to the Latah County Prosecutors Office and the University of Idaho to stop this madness.

When the victim’s can’t speak you have to speak for them when you feel someone is hurting the case.
Let’s just answer the question on why the King Road house should stand for basic evidentiary purposes.

1. What were the vantage points of the roommates (Dillon and Bethany)? What could they hear from where they were in the house? What could they see? How far away was Dillon when she saw BK and why didn’t he see her? Could the surviving roommates hear a dog barking from the 3rd floor? Screams? Can you hear those same sounds from the bottom apartment?

2. Outside the house. If evidence is presented about BK leaving or watching the house. What windows could he see in from where he was parked? Was he able to view the inside of the house and what was going on from outside sitting in a car or walking by? (Goes towards pre-mediation). How long did it take for him to walk to his car? What points of entry could he have gotten into the house?

3. If there is audio evidence? What can you hear standing outside the house? What can you hear inside the house?

4. What was Xana’s path in the house to pick up the Doordash? Did she have to walk past different rooms? Could she have walked past BK, where could he have been hiding?

5. All the entry and exit points in the home. How could you get in and out without anyone seeing you? Were the decks potential access points? The decks and landscape features are very close to each other.

6. Any biological evidence? Where was it located in the house? Any proximity to the victims and any trail outside of biological evidence.

7.If the house itself was a target? Which was the theory from the beginning. Which is the supposed reason the University of Idaho called off their campus wide warning while BK was still not apprehended.
Why was the house a target and its access/exit points and the driveway configuration for a vehicle to enter/exit/turnaround? Vantage points of other camera evidence pointed toward the house.

These are just a few things that the family has thought of and no one seems to be able to answer about the King Road house. The question is? If the home is demolished will all of these questions be able to be answered later on with diagrams/models/technology, etc...if they become an issue at trial. If not then leave the home alone!

PLEASE GET A TRIAL DATE SCHEDULED

It is with disappointment and frustration that we have to ask for this publicly. The Court in this matter has delayed long enough. The hearing for the challenges to the indictment were in October and the Court finally made a ruling in December on those challenges (over 45 days later). The Court still has not made a ruling on the in camera evidence that was presented on December 1, 2023 regarding the genealogy evidence.
It is also now our understanding that the Defense has filed a motion for the Court to reconsider the Court's decision on the indictment challenges or stay the proceedings for appeal. This challenge will be given another hearing date another 30 days out. This was filed a day after a scheduling order and trial was requested.

All of this affects us the victims families and we can not understand the constant delays.
This case has to move forward! We are a year out and the Court just made a decision on the indictment. Now the Court will have to make another decision to reconsider the decision the Court just made which took the Court 45 days to decide. All along not still no trial date.

We feel that the University of Idaho and the Court has put us in a horrible position to have to voice our opinions. We all along have just wanted the King Rd. Home to not be demolished and for us to have a trial date so that we can look forward to justice being served.
 
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Was that confirmed though? What if a juror requested to see it?
I know there's photos/ videos etc. But to stand and see what the perpetrator did and to see what the victims saw is quite pivotal is it not? For eg, with DM.... I'd want to stand where she stood and saw the perp, what exactly could she see etc. It seems quite crazy that they allowed this. Iv always felt the house was a witness and a 'character' (for Want of a better word) in this case. I think there's a lot of voyeuristic aspects to the case too, I feel it was easy for the perp to watch and wait and its a shame the jury couldn't have stepped into the area and seen and felt it for themselves.
yes that was confirmed

I heard that if the prosecution wants the jury to see the crime scene that have to get it approved by the judge and I heard that judges doesn't always approve them.

here's another message about it too.


if a juror asked to see the crime scene that would have to be approved by the judge.
 
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For the sake of say another year while the trial is held it should have been kept up. Demolish it after. I hope this doesn't impact the case down the line if there's something that needs looking over again.
 
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You would think the house is a major piece of evidence. Its almost like saying well we've made a replica of the knife sheath for jurors to look at so lets just throw the actual sheath away.

I'm happy that the relatives and friends of the victims no longer see the house everyday but surely they could have fenced the building off to keep it out of sight.

I watched an interview with Peter Tragos yesterday and he made a point along the lines of what if BK somehow is found innocent and the state attempts to prosecute another person for the murders. The defense for this person would have no ability to collate photos etc. of the house. They'd be at a great disadvantage. I understand thats quite far-fetched but nothing is impossible.
if BK was found not guilty, I don't think that prosecution would go looking for another suspect. The prosecution would just state that they are confident the right person had been charged in this crime and that they are still confident the right person was charged for this crime. That's happened before.
---
Was that confirmed though? What if a juror requested to see it?
I know there's photos/ videos etc. But to stand and see what the perpetrator did and to see what the victims saw is quite pivotal is it not? For eg, with DM.... I'd want to stand where she stood and saw the perp, what exactly could she see etc. It seems quite crazy that they allowed this. Iv always felt the house was a witness and a 'character' (for Want of a better word) in this case. I think there's a lot of voyeuristic aspects to the case too, I feel it was easy for the perp to watch and wait and its a shame the jury couldn't have stepped into the area and seen and felt it for themselves.


the other one maybe is behind a pay wall

but yes it's been confirmed.
 
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I felt quite emotional when I saw the video of the demolition. I thought it was a mistake when they were first going to do it and thought that it should be kept standing until the trial was over. Apparently the structure inside the house was changed quite significantly with sections of wall and flooring removed so it wouldn’t have resembled the original scene. I do feel like the outside of the house was important too. What could be seen of the house from where the car was parked etc. Photos and videos don’t give the same perspective. I understand why local people wanted the house gone but the house being gone doesn’t change what happened on site. I think the big gap where the house once stood will still be a reminder of the horrific acts that took place there. Apparently the Goncalves and Kernodle families were against this. I really feel for the families and hope that the trial can happen in the summer. They need to see justice done.
yeah I see what you mean but there are some people in the area near the house that were peeing on the house and the security guard had to call 911 about it and the police came out and talked to them about it. And they were drunk too and there may have been some underage drinking too.

But also there are people that are coming by the house just to see the house. Yeah it doesn't change anything but it could reduce the amount of traffic coming to the town just to see that house and I think that's part of the reason behind demolishing the house imo. I heard that like around Dec that the owner was getting frustrated with everything and I also there was an article that was put out and I don't know if it was true or not. But the article claimed that the owner of the house and other properties in the area was telling their renters not to speak to the media. But when the owner donated the house to U of I, part of that agreement was U of I to demolish the house. You also have to remember that the same day that the suspect got arrested was the same day that Moscow PD scheduled the start of the remediation of the house because they were going to be turning it over to the owner, which was interesting timing imo. Then his attorney had to ask the judge to stop the remediation and she asked for evidence to be saved. See there is no law in Idaho about preserving evidence in murder cases.


No evidence retention law in murder cases exists in Idaho
by Lauren Clark
Thu, February 7th 2019

BOISE, Idaho (CBS 2) — Crime scene tape. Red and blue police lights. Law enforcement on scene: All common sights of a murder case. You might assume it's law to preserve what's gathered in these cases, but in the state of Idaho, there's nothing guaranteeing that. Some experts say, Idahoans should have a right to be concerned.

"It is a missed opportunity that could have incredibly grave consequences if governments fail to preserve biological evidence," said Rebecca Brown, director of policy at the Innocence Project.


Right now, the Gem State does not have any laws requiring evidence to be preserved in a murder case. This means legally, it can be destroyed.

Greg Hampikian, Boise State University professor and Idaho Innocence Project director, is considered one of the foremost forensic DNA experts in the United States. He played an instrumental role in the acquittal of American exchange student Amanda Knox. He's also worked on a number of cases here in Idaho. Hampikian says he doesn't believe law enforcement officers here are carelessly throwing away DNA swabs or murder weapons. He says he sees the opposite.

"The cases I've worked on this has not been a major problem," he says. "There's always--they can't keep everything and you wish there was more evidence--but they are holding on. I've looked at evidence in this state that's 20 to 25 years old, and I haven't seen a big problem with what they are doing."

So why then, is there a concern about a lack of a law? The main concern is this: how evidence is handled in these cases, and how long it's retained could be different across different cities in the state.

"It's simply no longer acceptable that there not be uniform standards across the state with how to preserve biological evidence," says Brown. She says not having this law not only harms those who are innocent behind bars, but also law enforcement officers who are trying to solve cold cases.

Brown says laws across the nation are a bit of a mix when it comes to how they preserve evidence. Brown was one of several members of a 2015 national technical working group on biological evidence with the National Institute of Standards and Technology and the National Institute of Justice.

She says the group---comprised of law enforcement officers, lawyers, scientists and non profit members--came up with multiple recommendations on the best practices to preserve evidence. And while each state law varies, roughly the numbers break down like this:

Idaho is only one of eight states that do not have a law with evidence preservation in a murder case. Seventeen other states have laws, but are considered by the standards of the working group as too restrictive. (Some states for example, allow for a window of destruction, such as after a conviction, or if a defendant plead guilty.) The remaining 25 state have laws that roughly meet these standards.

Brown says states that automatically retain evidence in murder cases permanently, serve its citizens best.

"When there is a viable claim of evidence, and there's no opportunity to test the evidence connected to that case, no body benefits," says Brown. " Not the original victim of the crime, because the wrong person is behind bars, obviously the wrongfully convicted person, their victim and their community is harmed massively, and the public safety is harmed."

And without these laws Hampikian says---there's a possibility of grave consequences.

"If you trust your government to always be right--then you have no worry," he says. " But the fact of the matter is, we've had several thousand exonerations in this country. We've had over 120 people freed from death row, who were innocent. So even when it's taken the most seriously, mistakes are made."

One of these mistakes happened to Maryland man, Kirk Bloodsworth.

"I was just an innocent man in a jail cell, waiting to die," he says. Bloodsworth was found guilty of the murder of a young girl near his home. A murder, that he did not commit.

Sitting in his cell reading, he says he found out about a new form of DNA testing, which he was certain would prove his innocence. However, he says prosecutors told him the evidence in the case was inadvertently destroyed. He says the evidence was later discovered in the judge's chambers. It led to him being freed, and the real killer being charged in the crime. He credits the saved evidence, for saving his life.

"No state, no principality, no government should destroy evidence about a case, especially things like blood evidence or semen samples," he says.

Bloodsworth says Idahoans should be very concerned with the fact that their law doesn't guarantee that this evidence will be preserved.

"If it could happen to me--an honorably discharged marine no criminal record or criminal history-- it can happen to anybody in America," he says. "You got to preserve the evidence Idaho, or it could happen to one of your citizens."

Stay with CBS 2 as we continue to cover this issue. Next, we're talking to members of law enforcement to see their methods of how they preserve evidence.
 
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A Moscow jury will likely be shown 3D imaging of the home where 4 UI students were killed
  • ALEXANDRA DUGGAN, The Spokesman-Review
  • Dec 30, 2023 Updated Dec 30, 2023

658f3de4ca9c1.image.jpg


MOSCOW - Law enforcement is using 3D imaging to illustrate the crime scene and layout of the home where four University of Idaho students were killed last year since the home was demolished on Thursday, and it could be the best-case scenario for the upcoming murder trial, according to a forensics expert.

Madison Mogen, Kaylee Goncalves, Xana Kernodle and Ethan Chapin were stabbed to death in their off-campus home on Nov. 13, 2022. Bryan Kohberger, a 29-year-old former Washington State University graduate student, faces four counts of first-degree murder.

The home at 1122 King Road was torn down Thursday despite objections from the Goncalves and Kernodle families. In a statement, they said it’s important for a jury to be able to see the home and certain vantage points. Shanon Gray, an attorney representing the Goncalves family, also said in a statement the home is “one of the most critical pieces of evidence in the case.” They started an online petition to protect the home, and more than 5,000 people have signed it.

The house was donated to the university, and after a few delays, the school decided to demolish it without protest from the defense or prosecution to move forward with the healing process, the university said in a news release.

Eugene Liscio, a 3D forensics analyst, said a model of the home based on the FBI’s scans finished in October is just as good for the jury. Even if jurors don’t get to walk through the house, “there’s nothing better next to the real thing,” Liscio said. “Bringing the jury to the home can be practical, sometimes it’s not. But you can do all that with the 3D model, too.”

Liscio has been a forensic analyst for 20 years. He has a background in aerospace engineering. Now, he owns ai2-3D, a private company based in Canada that contracts with law enforcement, and sometimes with the Naval Criminal Investigative Service, or NCIS.

Liscio said the FBI uses 3D technology referred to as a terrestrial laser scanner. It stands on a tripod and spins around. The scanner is calibrated down to 40- or 80-thousandths of an inch, he said, making it the most accurate instrument investigators have. In the case of the King Road home, you could likely scan every room and the outside in almost five hours, Liscio said.

“There is nothing like it,” he said. “No other instrument would give you that much data in so little time.”

Once the data is documented, every inch is pieced together like a puzzle, making the scene look identical to real life.

The technology is able to superimpose crime scene photos down to the exact measurements because the photo will align with the data, Liscio said. Other experts also use the technology during autopsies. If enough photos are taken, you can reproduce injuries on a body in 3D, he said. It’s also nearly impossible to be manipulated, because the data is recorded in a complicated number sequence.

“I doubt the FBI even knows how to break into the code to alter it,” he said. “It’s not easily extracted unless you’re the manufacturer.”


The data also has a strict chain of custody since it’s considered evidence, and if any scan was missing, investigators would know since the comprehensive model wouldn’t be aligned correctly. It’s also possible, Liscio said, investigators in the Moscow homicides scanned the home and cut out walls for evidence to bring back with them and analyze in a lab. The 3D scan can preserve any blood spatter digitally, so how the King Road home looked on the night of the homicides is how the jury likely will see it.

Latah County Prosecutor Bill Thompson, leading the Kohberger case, said in a Dec. 22 email that the home is so different than it was at the time of the homicides that a jury walk-through would never be approved. He said investigators have gathered necessary measurements to create exhibits that “should be admissible and helpful to the jury.”

Liscio said analysts also are able to create a virtual tour for a jury so “they can enter the home” without actually doing so.

“It’s a complete replica of the home. There are things you can do with the model you cannot do in real life,” he said. “Blood stain analysis, bullet analysis, blood spatter analysis. Those things.”

Liscio said he usually enters crime scenes after law enforcement has completely documented every piece of evidence. He thinks it’s possible the FBI already made original scans of the home when they arrived last year to assist with the case, but came back if they wanted a more complete scan.

“They may have discovered something else when looking at the scans, or missed something before and came back to get better geometry of the rooms,” Liscio said. “The fact they were already there, they likely already have that data from when the scene was active.”

According to the FBI’s Seattle Bureau, investigative information could be developed or more evidence can be discovered that requires “investigators to rethink what may have occurred,” which is why they can return to the scene in order to double check measurements and witness statements.

A jury visiting the scene can always be helpful, FBI spokesperson Steve Bernd said, but it is not common. The FBI’s goal, Bernd said, is to use technology to “best present a case to a jury” that doesn’t have a background in forensics.

Liscio said he can’t imagine that forensic analysts “lost anything” during their crime scene analysis. Because the home was demolished, he said, “I assume the authorities wouldn’t let it go this easily,” if there was still more to be done.

Kohberger faces the death penalty if convicted. His trial is currently postponed.
 
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The Goncalves family sent the below statement to media the day before demolition

PLEASE STOP THE DEMOLITION OF THE KING ROAD HOME!

The Goncalves Family has reached out to the Latah County Prosecutors Office and the University of Idaho to stop this madness.

When the victim’s can’t speak you have to speak for them when you feel someone is hurting the case.
Let’s just answer the question on why the King Road house should stand for basic evidentiary purposes.

1. What were the vantage points of the roommates (Dillon and Bethany)? What could they hear from where they were in the house? What could they see? How far away was Dillon when she saw BK and why didn’t he see her? Could the surviving roommates hear a dog barking from the 3rd floor? Screams? Can you hear those same sounds from the bottom apartment?

2. Outside the house. If evidence is presented about BK leaving or watching the house. What windows could he see in from where he was parked? Was he able to view the inside of the house and what was going on from outside sitting in a car or walking by? (Goes towards pre-mediation). How long did it take for him to walk to his car? What points of entry could he have gotten into the house?

3. If there is audio evidence? What can you hear standing outside the house? What can you hear inside the house?

4. What was Xana’s path in the house to pick up the Doordash? Did she have to walk past different rooms? Could she have walked past BK, where could he have been hiding?

5. All the entry and exit points in the home. How could you get in and out without anyone seeing you? Were the decks potential access points? The decks and landscape features are very close to each other.

6. Any biological evidence? Where was it located in the house? Any proximity to the victims and any trail outside of biological evidence.

7.If the house itself was a target? Which was the theory from the beginning. Which is the supposed reason the University of Idaho called off their campus wide warning while BK was still not apprehended.
Why was the house a target and its access/exit points and the driveway configuration for a vehicle to enter/exit/turnaround? Vantage points of other camera evidence pointed toward the house.

These are just a few things that the family has thought of and no one seems to be able to answer about the King Road house. The question is? If the home is demolished will all of these questions be able to be answered later on with diagrams/models/technology, etc...if they become an issue at trial. If not then leave the home alone!

PLEASE GET A TRIAL DATE SCHEDULED

It is with disappointment and frustration that we have to ask for this publicly. The Court in this matter has delayed long enough. The hearing for the challenges to the indictment were in October and the Court finally made a ruling in December on those challenges (over 45 days later). The Court still has not made a ruling on the in camera evidence that was presented on December 1, 2023 regarding the genealogy evidence.
It is also now our understanding that the Defense has filed a motion for the Court to reconsider the Court's decision on the indictment challenges or stay the proceedings for appeal. This challenge will be given another hearing date another 30 days out. This was filed a day after a scheduling order and trial was requested.

All of this affects us the victims families and we can not understand the constant delays.
This case has to move forward! We are a year out and the Court just made a decision on the indictment. Now the Court will have to make another decision to reconsider the decision the Court just made which took the Court 45 days to decide. All along not still no trial date.

We feel that the University of Idaho and the Court has put us in a horrible position to have to voice our opinions. We all along have just wanted the King Rd. Home to not be demolished and for us to have a trial date so that we can look forward to justice being served.
The IGG information has been ruled on by the Judge and it's sealed and there doesn't seem to be a public version of it. But I heard Othram requires a protective order with the information that they shared with the court.
Screen Shot 2024-01-02 at 6.10.32 PM.png
 
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The Judge has issued some updated rules of courtroom conduct before the next hearing for this case. No more live tweeting from inside the court room and also people will not be allowed to come in and out of the court room once the hearing has started. I've noticed that people are worried that the Judge may turn the cameras off if and when BF and DM testify during the trial and I hope that isn't the case. Only time will tell.
 
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Was that confirmed though? What if a juror requested to see it?
I know there's photos/ videos etc. But to stand and see what the perpetrator did and to see what the victims saw is quite pivotal is it not? For eg, with DM.... I'd want to stand where she stood and saw the perp, what exactly could she see etc. It seems quite crazy that they allowed this. Iv always felt the house was a witness and a 'character' (for Want of a better word) in this case. I think there's a lot of voyeuristic aspects to the case too, I feel it was easy for the perp to watch and wait and its a shame the jury couldn't have stepped into the area and seen and felt it for themselves.
I think all murder cases nowadays should be full recorded for VR review in the future. I don't understand why it wouldn't be, especially if the FBI are involved (and presumably they have more funds than local police)

I also think it STINKs that they've had so force the hand over of DNA evidence to the defence. I think BK is likely guilty, but it seems dodgy that they wouldn't share evidence unless forced. I wonder if they have got the DNA evidence in a dodgy way.
 
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I don't think that DM and BF had anything to do with the crime but I still just want to hear what they have to say about what happened that night and they are over 18 yrs old so I don't understand why they would need protection from testifying publicly. I can see if they don't so their faces when they are testifying and the public could just hear the testimony would be fine for me.


I think all murder cases nowadays should be full recorded for VR review in the future. I don't understand why it wouldn't be, especially if the FBI are involved (and presumably they have more funds than local police)

I also think it STINKs that they've had so force the hand over of DNA evidence to the defence. I think BK is likely guilty, but it seems dodgy that they wouldn't share evidence unless forced. I wonder if they have got the DNA evidence in a dodgy way.
I think, imo, that some of the problem with the dna evidence that it's touch/trace dna which is not the best dna. Touch dna isn't used in military courts cases, just FYI. The DNA expert Bicka Barlow said that it's a partial print of the touch dna in a court document filed for the defense, which is very interesting. The Idaho State Police sent the sheath to Othram Lab in Texas and Idaho State forensic lab has a contract with Othram Lab for only cold cases and this wasn't a cold case yet. My question is why did Idaho State and Moscow send it there. It doesn't make any sense imo. Also the touch dna is on metal or brass which can has an effect on the quality of the dna sample too.

People have already been saying that they think that the FBI used the back door ( meaning they searched through that users that opted out of sharing their DNA with LE as a regular user vs as the FBI) ) on the genealogy website to get to his dna and Gabriella Vargas has mentioned this and some others have too. The theory that they may have gotten BK's dna the wrong way has been going around for a while now. But I heard that the IGG doesn't lead to just one person it usually leads to several people and then LE has to investigate. But I wonder how much investigation did LE do into BK before they were able to get the arrest warrant approved because I heard that LE had to try a few times before it was approved. Because it really just looks like Moscow LE just used the "tip" from the FBI and took it as fact. because why would the defense state in court documents that they don't know how or when LE came to focus on this client which is a good question.
 
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I think all murder cases nowadays should be full recorded for VR review in the future. I don't understand why it wouldn't be, especially if the FBI are involved (and presumably they have more funds than local police)

I also think it STINKs that they've had so force the hand over of DNA evidence to the defence. I think BK is likely guilty, but it seems dodgy that they wouldn't share evidence unless forced. I wonder if they have got the DNA evidence in a dodgy way.
Governor of Idaho, Gov. Little allocates 1 million dollars for the U of I investigation from the state's emergency fund.
 
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Governor of Idaho, Gov. Little allocates 1 million dollars for the U of I investigation from the state's emergency fund.
this happened back on Nov 28, 2022 just for a point of reference.

Here's how much Idaho State Police have spent on the Moscow murders investigation

$282,109.35 is the exact amount of funds used as of Feb. 6, which include travel, overtime, lab testing and evidence storage.

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Author: Alexandra Duggan, Dani Allsop
Published: 2:54 PM MST February 15, 2023
Updated: 10:25 PM MST February 15, 2023
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IDAHO, USA — The murders of four University of Idaho students in November of 2022 was a massive investigation that required many resources from police and other agencies to work together -- and with that, came $282,109.35 of expenditures related to the homicide case by Idaho State Police (ISP).
When Kaylee Goncalves, Madison Mogen, Ethan Chapin and Xana Kernodle were stabbed to death in a home off campus on Nov. 13, 2022, Moscow Police, Idaho State Police and the FBI began the long process of investigating their deaths. It led to the arrest of 28-year-old Bryan Kohberger, a Washington State University Ph.D student, based on DNA found at the scene.


The expenditures of $282,109.35, obtained through a public records request, is the exact amount of funds used as of Feb. 6 -- which includes travel, overtime, lab testing, storage of evidence and other miscellaneous police work, according to ISP Communications Director Aaron Snell. ISP dedicated significant resources to help Moscow Police, a smaller-scale police department.

Snell said the investigation of the four murders "qualifies as a large investigation" and that cases and costs at this magnitude are "uncommon occurrences" in comparison to other investigations, but he doesn't think there is a set parameter to accurately quantify them.

Idaho Governor Brad Little allocated $1 million from the state emergency fund in order to help law enforcement. When Little announced the funding, he said the expenses would be determined by ISP with the help of other police agencies.

Snell said ISP is currently paying for expenses related to the case from a miscellaneous revenue until reimbursement is received from Little's office.

ISP has not used all of Little's allocated funds, Snell said, but there will be "additional expenses as the investigation continues."

Moscow Police Department denied a records request inquiring about their expenditures related to the case. According to Moscow's city attorney, information regarding how much the MPD has spent is in violation of the non-dissemination order in the case against Kohberger. The "gag order" was issued by a Latah County magistrate judge in January, barring attorneys and law enforcement from speaking to the media and the public about the investigation.

An FBI spokesperson also said they could not release how much the agency has spent assisting in Moscow.
 
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Idaho murders: Mysteries linger in Moscow weeks after Bryan Kohberger's arrest
Nate Schweber, Ashley Collman, Haven Orecchio-Egresitz, and Hannah Beckler
Jan 17, 2023, 3:52 PM CST

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A private security officer sits in a vehicle in front of the house in Moscow, Idaho, where four University of Idaho students were killed in November.Associated Press/Ted S. Warren

  • After a nearly seven-week manhunt, Bryan Kohberger's arrest did not reveal a motive.
  • Court documents in the case laying out prosecutors' theory of the crime raised new questions.
  • The long stretch between the killings and when police were called is one outstanding mystery.
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MOSCOW, Idaho — As students return for spring semester, this small college town in wheat-farming country is still grappling with the brutal killings of four vivacious University of Idaho students.

A shrine of teddy bears, flowers, and a framed photo collage still stands in front of the three-story home near campus where three female residents and a male visitor were fatally stabbed in the early morning of November 13.

On Main Street, a table in front of Mad Greek, a restaurant where two of the victims worked, holds four white candles, each bearing the name of a victim.

Madison Mogen, 21, a senior in marketing from Coeur d'Alene, Idaho, about a 1 ½-hour drive north of Moscow, was remembered for treasuring her friends and dreaming of world travel, according to interviews conducted by Insider and reports published in other outlets.

Kaylee Goncalves, 21, was excited for her planned post-graduation move to Austin, Texas, to begin a marketing career.

Ethan Chapin, 20, of Conway, Washington, was remembered for his bright smile, sense of humor, and, as a triplet, a love of playing sports with his siblings.

Xana Kernodle, 20, who grew up in Idaho and Arizona, was remembered for loving her independent life in college and for her fierce spirit.

A server at Mad Greek, the restaurant where Mogen and Kernodle worked and the other victims visited, wore a ribbon of her school's black-and-yellow colors to honor her friends.

"So sweet, so friendly," said the young woman, who asked Insider to not use her name.

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Candles for the victims were placed outside Mad Greek in downtown Moscow. Nate Schweber

After a nearly seven-week manhunt, questions about what could have motivated someone to harm the students grew even more pitched after the police finally arrested a suspect on December 30. Despite attempts to make sense of the killings, a motive remains elusive weeks later.

And questions have mounted about why one of the surviving roommates waited until just before noon to call police after she'd seen a masked man in her home around 4 a.m.

Timing of the 911 call
The police said Dylan Mortensen, one of the two surviving roommates, heard what she thought was crying around the time of the alleged murders, and a male voice she didn't recognize saying, "It's OK, I'm going to help you."

She told authorities that she went to her door and saw a man dressed in black and wearing a ski mask coming toward her and froze, but that after he exited through a back sliding-glass door, she locked her own bedroom door and went back to bed.

She finally called 911 at 11:58 a.m., after first calling friends over to ask what to do about finding one of her roommates not moving, according to early news reports citing police sources.

Then there was the haziness surrounding the grisly discovery.

Confusion ensued in the hours before the police were called, said another neighbor, who identified herself as the best friend of one of the surviving roommates and asked not to be named for privacy reasons.

She said she came to the house soon after the crime was discovered and learned from the surviving roommates — Mortensen and Bethany Funke — that someone on the second floor wasn't moving.

She said she first presumed the person had ingested "something from someone that was laced."

It wasn't until later the she learned four people she knew had been stabbed and were not unconscious, but dead.

"When I was out there that day, I wasn't comprehending," she said. "I'm still not."

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A memorial sits outside the home where four University of Idaho students were killed in November. Nate Schweber

A 'party house'
The victims' hilly, campus-adjacent neighborhood, crammed with large and small apartment buildings, plus family homes with rooms rented by students, was known as a party zone.

A friend and neighbor of the victims, who said they often visited the gray, three-story home with a large balcony and a barbecue and a sofa in the backyard, described it as a "normal girl party house."

Several residents of a large, brick apartment building next door described disruptive late-night parties with loud country music, and numerous visitors coming and going through an unlocked door.

Police were called to respond to complaints of loud parties at the house three times since August, according to reports obtained by Insider.

A Lyft driver, Vincent Sheetz, said he'd started refusing to pick up or drop off anyone in the vicinity of the house on party nights because he'd experienced incidents in which his car was hit with vomit and people threw objects while he was driving.

He said he previously worked as a caterer at several University of Idaho fraternity and sorority houses and couldn't take it.

"The amount of drugs and alcohol in this was mind-bleeping-boggling," he told Insider. "So I quit."

Goncalves was a member of the Alpha Phi sorority, Kernodle and Mogen were members of Pi Beta Phi, and Chapin was a member of Sigma Chi.

The sororities were on probation at the University of Idaho in the weeks after the killings for "health and safety" violations. According to the university's Greek Life website, health and safety violations are about "concerns regarding risk management, alcohol/drugs, or hazing."

Traumatized and scrutinized
In Moscow, some of the victims' neighbors speculated that Mortensen might have been intoxicated at the time of the killings, and therefore did not respond appropriately to encountering a strange man in her house.

But the house was known for frequent guests and noisiness, in an area known for rowdy parties. Neighbors, too, were used to late-night disturbances.

Matthew Moye, 22, a neighbor and a friend of Mortensen's, defended her against criticism.

"She has been through one of the most traumatic things you can go through, and people are attacking her," he said. "When you're in a stressful situation, you might not act how people think."

At closing time on a late October weekend, Kaylee Goncalves hired a Lyft driver, Dakota Kidder, to drive her and Madison Mogen home from a local bar.

They had spent their night — as they also would on the night of the murders — at the Corner Club. The popular watering hole is a small, windowless haunt made of gray cinder blocks where 20-somethings sip cocktails made from Mike's Hard Lemonade, Twisted Tea, and rum.

"They were nice. They were not, like, sloppy drunk or anything. They were great riders," Kidder told Insider. "They even tipped."

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A photo of Bryan Kohberger was removed from a photo display at Washington State University's Wilson-Short Hall, where he was working on a Ph.D. in criminology. Nate Schweber

A disturbing new detail
The suspect in the killings, Bryan Kohberger, a 28-year-old, a 6-foot-tall, 185-pound criminology student who neighbors described as friendly and talkative, was enrolled at Washington State University in nearby Pullman, Washington. Prosecutors say cellphone data shows he made the 22-mile round-trip drive from his apartment to the house where the killings took place no fewer than a dozen times before the murders.

But there was no further known connection between the suspect and the victims, and accounts that have surfaced about the suspected killer since his arrest have provided no clear motive or revealed any history that would suggest a propensity to kill.

Kohberger's arrest on December 30, however, triggered talk of a disturbing new detail.

For hours before and after the killings, Washington State University police and Whitman County sheriff's deputies were posted outside the suspect's apartment because of a bloody hit-and-run reported at 11:40 p.m. on November 12 that sent two pedestrians to the hospital with serious injuries.

Turner Gardner, 26, told Insider that a man had been thrown from the road and a woman lay face-down screaming.

"It was horrifying," she said of coming upon the scene just before midnight on November 12.

"I heard a screech and a loud bang," another witness, Aundrea McKinsey, 25, told Insider. "It was scary."

Within 24 hours, police had Carmen E. Fernandez in custody. The 19-year-old Kappa Delta sorority member was charged with vehicular assault and DUI, according to police and press reports, but first there was a manhunt, according to local press reports.

Cellphone data laid out in court documents shows Kohberger's phone at his home in the early hours of November 13. A second-story window likely gave Kohberger — who, according to neighborsand court documents, was an insomniac — a view of the scene. It was also within earshot.

He left his apartment about 2:42 a.m. on November 13, according to cellular data and traffic-camera footage compiled by prosecutors, his white Hyundai sedan traveling 11 miles to Moscow. Prosecutors say he then committed the grisly murders, leaving behind a knife sheath containing the DNA that would eventually lead to his arrest.

By 5:30 a.m., cell-tower pings showed his phone back at his home.

"The police were there the whole time," Jose Mercado, 19, a student who lives in a nearby apartment with a view of both Kohberger's building and the accident scene, told Insider.

While authorities had no reason to believe four people had been murdered in the neighboring town, it's unclear if the crash had anything to do with the killings, or if two bloody crime scenes not far from each other was a simple coincidence.

"It makes you wonder if things could have been different," Faith Grossi, 19, told Insider standing in a student room with a window facing the hit-and-run scene and Kohberger's apartment.

At 9 a.m., Kohberger's phone was on the move again, prosecutors said, and it returned to the scene of the murders before arriving back at his Pullman home at 9:32 a.m.

Around noon, about the time Moscow police found the victims and the hunt for the killer began, Kohberger's phone pings indicate that he likely slipped out of his apartment and past Pullman police once more.

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University of Idaho. Education Images/Universal Images Group via Getty Images

A suspect at ease, a community on edge
Kohberger then took a long drive, winding through hilly wheat fields and past grain silos and red barns to the confluence of the Snake and Clearwater Rivers, according to security-camera footage presented by prosecutors. He shopped at an Albertsons grocery store in the town of Clarkston, Washington. His cellphone was next tracked traveling east for more than an hour toward the Bitterroot Mountains, said prosecutors.

He returned seemingly unnoticed to Pullman and fell back into his school routine. In addition to his doctoral studies, Kohberger worked as a teaching assistant in the university's criminology department — and had even applied for an internship with the Pullman Police Department, which would eventually help nab him, according to court documents.

The unsolved killings set the campus on edge, with students staying inside, canceling appointments, and even leaving town early out of fear of a killer on the loose. But Kohberger appeared in a notably bright and cheery mood, according to interviews conducted by Insider.

One of his students said he stopped grading after the killings, but he also attended a routine medical appointment four days later and was so friendly with staff members that they took notice.

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Kohberger, in handcuffs, was escorted by officers in the Monroe County Courthouse in Stroudsburg, Pennsylvania, on January 3, 2023. Pennsylvania

An arrest, but no closure
It would take the police several weeks to identify Kohberger as the suspect. He was arrested at his parents' house in Pennsylvania's Pocono Mountains while visiting for the holidays, after the DNA on the knife sheath found at the crime scene was matched to his father's DNA, which authorities collected from a trash can outside his parents' Pennsylvania home.

But the arrest and subsequent affidavit laying out prosecutors' theory of the crime has hardly brought closure.

People here still remember where they were when the last murder in Moscow happened nearly a decade ago, in 2015, and residents from the towns nearby stood in the cold to watch Kohberger enter the Latah County Jail on January 4.

"We're a little town that's really freaked out and in pain," Julia Piaskowski, a University of Idaho teacher, said from outside the jail that night.

"This changed us."

Update: January 18, 2023 — This story has been updated to include the fact that Chapin was a member of the Sigma Chi fraternity.

Correction: January 18, 2023 — An earlier version of the story misstated disciplinary actions that were taken against Alpha Phi and Pi Beta Phi sororities. They were on probation for health and safety violations, not suspension.

Correction: January 24, 2023 — Because of an editing error, an earlier version of this story misstated where a knife sheath with Bryan Kohberger's DNA was found. The knife sheath was found inside the home where the four students were killed, not in a trash can outside it.

I'm sharing this article because it has some interesting details. This article came out in Jan 2023. I'm sure that some of y'all around here have noticed that a lot of the articles that came out early in this case are hard to find now or removed from the internet now.
 
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