Based on the hearing today you're right there was Stingray that was used, it was confirmed by Sy Ray on the witness stand today. I still haven't watched the world hearing yet.
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Attorneys for Idaho murder suspect Bryan Kohberger maintain DA is slow-walking evidence
Published May 30, 2024 8:29pm EDT
A cellular geolocation expert testified Thursday cellphone data in the case is missing
www.foxnews.com
Bryan Kohberger, who stands accused of killing four University of Idaho students, was in court Thursday for a pretrial hearing where witnesses testified about the collection of evidence and cellphone data.
Defense attorneys for Kohberger have accused prosecutors of not turning over all the evidence they had during their discovery process, which the state denies.
"Discovery is being given to us like we are living in a snow globe," a defense lawyer told Idaho Judge John Judge.
The first witness, Moscow Police Detective Brett Payne, testified Thursday that thousands of hours of surveillance video were collected as part of the investigation.
Payne told defense attorney Anne Taylor that police have thousands of hours of video from 79 businesses and residences related to the investigation. Defense lawyers also questioned whether any cellphone data evidence is missing.
Witness Sy Ray, a former Arizona police detective and founder of ZetX Corporation, which specializes in cellular geolocation mapping, testified that 2- to 3% of the cellphone data in the case is missing.
"Some of the most significant locations in the case are missing data," Ray said.
He noted that he needs all the AT&T source data and other information for him to pinpoint where Kohberger's phone was at the time of the murders.
"Because of the piecemealing of the data, because of the missing data, because of the data I'm reviewing that is incredibly inaccurate, everything that is missing is absolutely in benefit of the defense right now," Ray testified, adding, "There are other reports that are missing that I can't tell you are benefiting of Mr. Kohberger or the state."
Prosecutors allege that Kohberger is the masked man who entered a house just steps from the University of Idaho campus around 4 a.m. on Nov. 13, 2022. Four undergrad students — Maddie Mogen and Kaylee Goncalves, both 21, their housemate Xana Kernodle, 20, and her visiting boyfriend, Ethan Chapin, also 20 — were all found dead inside the home.
He faces four charges of first-degree murder and a felony burglary count.
Kohberger, a Washington State University criminology graduate student, was arrested on suspicion of the killings on Dec. 30, 2022, in his home state of Pennsylvania.
Investigators said cellphone pings placed Kohberger near the house the day of the murders, but defense lawyers have argued that he was nowhere near the house where the killings happened and was instead driving around, as he often liked to "see the moon and stars."
Prosecutors have argued the alibi is "too vague." Investigators allegedly found Kohberger's DNA on a knife sheath under the body of one of the victims.
His attorneys have previously argued the DNA may have been planted at the scene and that the state has mishandled all the evidence for the defense to review. Investigators later allegedly confirmed a match with a DNA sample, which used distant relatives to make the connection to Kohberger.
A trial date has not yet been set. If convicted, Kohberger could face the death penalty.
Judge briefly adjourned the hearing for a break before returning, where DNA experts were expected to testify.
Fox News Digital's Stepheny Price contributed to this report.
---
Cellphone expert testifies missing data benefits University of Idaho murder suspect
Sy Ray, a cellphone tower analyst, said at an evidence hearing that what he has seen so far appears to be "exculpatory" to Bryan Kohberger, although that could change.
www.nbcnews.com
May 30, 2024, 5:54 PM CDT
By Erik Ortiz
A cellphone analyst suggested at a pretrial hearing Thursday that he has been stymied by law enforcement's disorganized data collection and recordkeeping in the case against Bryan Kohberger, the graduate student accused in the fatal stabbings of four Idaho college students.
Sy Ray, whom Kohberger's defense team plans to call as an expert witness at trial, said his review of the evidence provided by the FBI and police so far shows not all of the cellphone data extracted from Kohberger's phone around the time of the murders in 2022 was mapped.
He further testified that it's crucial that he receive all of the AT&T source data and related information for him to verify, given that prosecutors in Latah County are pinning Kohberger to the location of the killings, in part, by his cellphone use and cell tower records.
"It is a terrible practice to justify probable cause with these very detailed call detail records that give breadcrumb-like trails for individuals and then not map it," Ray said.
"Because of the piecemealing of the data, because of the missing data, because of the data I'm reviewing that is incredibly inaccurate, everything that is missing is absolutely in benefit of the defense right now," Ray testified, adding, "There are other reports that are missing that I can't tell you are benefiting of Mr. Kohberger or the state."
He added that it's unclear why certain data is unavailable: "Is this human error? Is it accidental? Is it intentional?"
What he has seen so far, he said, appears to be "exculpatory" to Kohberger.
Ray, a former police detective in Arizona, testified that he typically has been an expert witness for prosecutors in criminal cases. His expertise has previously come under scrutiny.
Earlier in Thursday's hearing, a lead investigator with the Moscow Police Department testified that thousands of hours of video were collected in relation to a Hyundai Elantra that prosecutors say Kohberger was driving when he left his apartment in Washington state, 9½ miles from where the murders took place in Moscow, Idaho.
Thursday's testimony was part of an ongoing attempt by the defense to ask the judge to compel prosecutors to turn over certain evidence in the discovery phase. DNA experts were expected to be called during a later hearing closed to the public. Prosecutors have argued that they aren’t purposefully withholding information.
The slow pace of the pretrial hearings and the discussions hanging over such a high-profile case have only delayed the trial and pushed a trial date back to spring or summer 2025 — frustrating families of the victims, who say their ability to heal has been impeded.
Three of the victims — Kaylee Goncalves, 21; Madison Mogen, 21; and Xana Kernodle, 20 — lived in an apartment house near the University of Idaho, where they were students. Kernodle’s boyfriend, Ethan Chapin, 20, had been staying over and was also killed early Nov. 13, 2022.
In an affidavit following Kohberger's arrest weeks after the killings, prosecutors said he was linked to the scene through male DNA discovered on a knife sheath left at the victims' apartment house. Investigators also said his cellphone use and video surveillance connected him to the crime.
Kohberger's alibi defense maintains that he would go for nighttime drives and that they only increased during the school year.
Published May 30, 2024 8:29pm EDT
A cellular geolocation expert testified Thursday cellphone data in the case is missing
Attorneys for Idaho murder suspect Bryan Kohberger maintain DA is slow-walking evidence
Bryan Kohberger, who is accused of killing four University of Idaho students, appeared in court Thursday for a pretrial hearing.
Bryan Kohberger, who stands accused of killing four University of Idaho students, was in court Thursday for a pretrial hearing where witnesses testified about the collection of evidence and cellphone data.
Defense attorneys for Kohberger have accused prosecutors of not turning over all the evidence they had during their discovery process, which the state denies.
"Discovery is being given to us like we are living in a snow globe," a defense lawyer told Idaho Judge John Judge.
The first witness, Moscow Police Detective Brett Payne, testified Thursday that thousands of hours of surveillance video were collected as part of the investigation.
Payne told defense attorney Anne Taylor that police have thousands of hours of video from 79 businesses and residences related to the investigation. Defense lawyers also questioned whether any cellphone data evidence is missing.
Witness Sy Ray, a former Arizona police detective and founder of ZetX Corporation, which specializes in cellular geolocation mapping, testified that 2- to 3% of the cellphone data in the case is missing.
"Some of the most significant locations in the case are missing data," Ray said.
He noted that he needs all the AT&T source data and other information for him to pinpoint where Kohberger's phone was at the time of the murders.
"Because of the piecemealing of the data, because of the missing data, because of the data I'm reviewing that is incredibly inaccurate, everything that is missing is absolutely in benefit of the defense right now," Ray testified, adding, "There are other reports that are missing that I can't tell you are benefiting of Mr. Kohberger or the state."
Prosecutors allege that Kohberger is the masked man who entered a house just steps from the University of Idaho campus around 4 a.m. on Nov. 13, 2022. Four undergrad students — Maddie Mogen and Kaylee Goncalves, both 21, their housemate Xana Kernodle, 20, and her visiting boyfriend, Ethan Chapin, also 20 — were all found dead inside the home.
He faces four charges of first-degree murder and a felony burglary count.
Kohberger, a Washington State University criminology graduate student, was arrested on suspicion of the killings on Dec. 30, 2022, in his home state of Pennsylvania.
Investigators said cellphone pings placed Kohberger near the house the day of the murders, but defense lawyers have argued that he was nowhere near the house where the killings happened and was instead driving around, as he often liked to "see the moon and stars."
Prosecutors have argued the alibi is "too vague." Investigators allegedly found Kohberger's DNA on a knife sheath under the body of one of the victims.
His attorneys have previously argued the DNA may have been planted at the scene and that the state has mishandled all the evidence for the defense to review. Investigators later allegedly confirmed a match with a DNA sample, which used distant relatives to make the connection to Kohberger.
A trial date has not yet been set. If convicted, Kohberger could face the death penalty.
Judge briefly adjourned the hearing for a break before returning, where DNA experts were expected to testify.
Fox News Digital's Stepheny Price contributed to this report.
---
Cellphone expert testifies missing data benefits University of Idaho murder suspect
Sy Ray, a cellphone tower analyst, said at an evidence hearing that what he has seen so far appears to be "exculpatory" to Bryan Kohberger, although that could change.
Cellphone expert testifies missing data benefits University of Idaho murder suspect
Sy Ray, a cellphone tower analyst, said at an evidence hearing that what he has seen so far appears to be "exculpatory" to Bryan Kohberger, although that could change.
May 30, 2024, 5:54 PM CDT
By Erik Ortiz
A cellphone analyst suggested at a pretrial hearing Thursday that he has been stymied by law enforcement's disorganized data collection and recordkeeping in the case against Bryan Kohberger, the graduate student accused in the fatal stabbings of four Idaho college students.
Sy Ray, whom Kohberger's defense team plans to call as an expert witness at trial, said his review of the evidence provided by the FBI and police so far shows not all of the cellphone data extracted from Kohberger's phone around the time of the murders in 2022 was mapped.
He further testified that it's crucial that he receive all of the AT&T source data and related information for him to verify, given that prosecutors in Latah County are pinning Kohberger to the location of the killings, in part, by his cellphone use and cell tower records.
"It is a terrible practice to justify probable cause with these very detailed call detail records that give breadcrumb-like trails for individuals and then not map it," Ray said.
"Because of the piecemealing of the data, because of the missing data, because of the data I'm reviewing that is incredibly inaccurate, everything that is missing is absolutely in benefit of the defense right now," Ray testified, adding, "There are other reports that are missing that I can't tell you are benefiting of Mr. Kohberger or the state."
He added that it's unclear why certain data is unavailable: "Is this human error? Is it accidental? Is it intentional?"
What he has seen so far, he said, appears to be "exculpatory" to Kohberger.
Ray, a former police detective in Arizona, testified that he typically has been an expert witness for prosecutors in criminal cases. His expertise has previously come under scrutiny.
Earlier in Thursday's hearing, a lead investigator with the Moscow Police Department testified that thousands of hours of video were collected in relation to a Hyundai Elantra that prosecutors say Kohberger was driving when he left his apartment in Washington state, 9½ miles from where the murders took place in Moscow, Idaho.
Thursday's testimony was part of an ongoing attempt by the defense to ask the judge to compel prosecutors to turn over certain evidence in the discovery phase. DNA experts were expected to be called during a later hearing closed to the public. Prosecutors have argued that they aren’t purposefully withholding information.
The slow pace of the pretrial hearings and the discussions hanging over such a high-profile case have only delayed the trial and pushed a trial date back to spring or summer 2025 — frustrating families of the victims, who say their ability to heal has been impeded.
Three of the victims — Kaylee Goncalves, 21; Madison Mogen, 21; and Xana Kernodle, 20 — lived in an apartment house near the University of Idaho, where they were students. Kernodle’s boyfriend, Ethan Chapin, 20, had been staying over and was also killed early Nov. 13, 2022.
In an affidavit following Kohberger's arrest weeks after the killings, prosecutors said he was linked to the scene through male DNA discovered on a knife sheath left at the victims' apartment house. Investigators also said his cellphone use and video surveillance connected him to the crime.
Kohberger's alibi defense maintains that he would go for nighttime drives and that they only increased during the school year.
After watching Andrea Burkhart's stream...
One thing everyone needs to be clear - they were not tapping his phone, he was under surveillance, but they were not tapping his phone....
My money is on someone has gone beyond the warrant....
Oh, and the FBI have been doing whatever and passing the it off as the Moscow police department.
For now, no need to worry about the house being knocked down, making it impossible to replicate the tower results - that apparently don't exist for the murder scene.
One thing everyone needs to be clear - they were not tapping his phone, he was under surveillance, but they were not tapping his phone....
My money is on someone has gone beyond the warrant....
Oh, and the FBI have been doing whatever and passing the it off as the Moscow police department.
For now, no need to worry about the house being knocked down, making it impossible to replicate the tower results - that apparently don't exist for the murder scene.
I think so too, someone has done something slightly dodgy to get the information they needed to get him (probably the DNA) and that's what they are hiding. Its just about whether that is enough to sew the seeds of doubt into the jury's mind.
this fits in with them being so slow with the evidence hand over
So the change of venue hearing for June 27, 2024 at 10 AM PST has been pushed to Aug 29, 2024 at 9 AM PST.
The slowness is due to both sides dancing about the alibi - the prosecution said as much.
Re Sy Ray...
Did he say that the (stingray) program was available to the FBI in December, but not available to the police until May of the following year?
Did he say that the (stingray) program was available to the FBI in December, but not available to the police until May of the following year?
Interesting...
This has probably been raised before...
But how does this make sense?
www.newsweek.com
" The affidavit said that officers responded to reports of an unconscious person at the property at 4 p.m. the same day. Police previously stated that the 911 call came in at 11:58 a.m. "
The murders supposedly happen in the early morning.
But how does this make sense?
Delayed Idaho murders 911 call finally explained
It took eight hours for the roommates of the slain students to call the police, but a new report offers an explanation as to why the alarm wasn't raised sooner.
www.newsweek.com
" The affidavit said that officers responded to reports of an unconscious person at the property at 4 p.m. the same day. Police previously stated that the 911 call came in at 11:58 a.m. "
The murders supposedly happen in the early morning.
It doesn't sometimes Newsweek gets some information wrong.This has probably been raised before...
But how does this make sense?
Delayed Idaho murders 911 call finally explained
It took eight hours for the roommates of the slain students to call the police, but a new report offers an explanation as to why the alarm wasn't raised sooner.
" The affidavit said that officers responded to reports of an unconscious person at the property at 4 p.m. the same day. Police previously stated that the 911 call came in at 11:58 a.m. "
The murders supposedly happen in the early morning.
Police: 4 University of Idaho students found dead by campus
Officials say all four University of Idaho students who were found dead inside a home near campus on Sunday are considered victims in the case, but police have yet to release the cause of death or other details about the investigation. Police discovered the students' bodies just before noon as...
"The students likely died between 3 and 4 a.m., but they weren't discovered for hours, Bettge said.
“The police got there at noon, nothing happened in the interim and nothing happened afterward, so it seemed to be a unique occurrence that was not apt to be repeated,” said Bettge. That timeline helped authorities determine that there was not an active risk, he said.
Dahlinger declined to confirm or deny Bettge’s description of the timeline."
"Brian Nickerson, the fire chief of the Moscow Volunteer Fire and EMS Department, said police were the first to arrive at the home. The first responders from the fire and EMS department didn't go inside or transport anyone from the scene, Nickerson said."
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Indeed...It doesn't sometimes Newsweek gets some information wrong.
Police: 4 University of Idaho students found dead by campus
Officials say all four University of Idaho students who were found dead inside a home near campus on Sunday are considered victims in the case, but police have yet to release the cause of death or other details about the investigation. Police discovered the students' bodies just before noon as...www.yahoo.com
"The students likely died between 3 and 4 a.m., but they weren't discovered for hours, Bettge said.
“The police got there at noon, nothing happened in the interim and nothing happened afterward, so it seemed to be a unique occurrence that was not apt to be repeated,” said Bettge. That timeline helped authorities determine that there was not an active risk, he said.
Dahlinger declined to confirm or deny Bettge’s description of the timeline."
"Brian Nickerson, the fire chief of the Moscow Volunteer Fire and EMS Department, said police were the first to arrive at the home. The first responders from the fire and EMS department didn't go inside or transport anyone from the scene, Nickerson said."
But it still doesn't explain why there was a delay in calling 911.
And that time period throws doubt on how the knife sheath got there.
that's very true and it's the elephant in the room that no one wants to talk about.. the unsecured crime scene for 8 or so hours.
I can't wait to hear the two surviving roommate testimonies if and when this goes to trial.
This whole thing reminds me of those 19th century cases in which the local county police were baffled and called in Scotland Yard - mixed with a bit of The Heat of the Night.
The prosecution is so full of holes.
However, the citing of the Judy Thompson case makes me wonder who Kohberger knew, or had contact with.
---
Do you promise to tell the truth under penalty of perjury
I do
Can you state your name and spell your last name.
My name is Brett Payne, last name P-A-Y-E
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Hmmm....
Wawawai country park has two things...
A lake and a state line.
Wawawai country park has two things...
A lake and a state line.
I heard that Moscow PD asked for the FBI and Idaho State police help. As time passed without any suspects, this article was published in the New York Post on Dec. 14, 2022 -
Moscow police should hand over control of Idaho murder investigation: former FBI agent
The tiny police department, which has around 60 staff and in 2019 boasted just 37 sworn-in police officers, has failed to produce a suspect, release a profile of the killer or give more than basic …
nypost.com
"The Moscow Police Department should relinquish control of the University of Idaho murders investigation, a former FBI agent has told The Post — as the one-month anniversary of the slaying passes with the killer still at large.
“I think the Moscow Police Department is in over its head. I think they’re drowning,” Pete Yachmetz, a security consultant and former FBI agent, told The Post. “They don’t have the resources to properly address this type of crime.”
The tiny police department, which has around 60 staff and in 2019 boasted just 37 sworn-in police officers, is still leading the investigation, but has failed to produce a suspect, release a profile of the killer or give more than basic information about the case, attracting criticism from some victims’ families.
The force’s six detectives are being backed up by 46 FBI investigators, 13 Idaho State Police investigators and 15 of its uniformed staff."
I remember that Chief Fry said that it was still Moscow PD's case and that he calls that shots if I'm not mistaken.
- I can't remember where this was from meaning which video or interview it was from. If you look at those press conferences that MPD did, the first one was like three days after the crime and then they did two more. But Chief Fry looked like he was reading from a script imo. Also Anne asked for training records of three LE and one was Idaho State Police and one was MPD and the third person, I heard that they wasn't FBI, so I'm guessing that they are either ISP or MPD. Anne wanted their training records because they had major decisions about the direction of the investigation and also one of these three people interviewed the witness (es)."Every resource is being utilized to its full ability, he said, teams are working over the holidays and investigators are driven by the need to bring closure to the families who lost their loved ones.
"I'm very confident that we're going to solve this. We've heard the rumors -- this case has gone cold, this case has not gotten cold. We've been hearing people say that we don't have the right people," Fry said. "I'm telling you, we have the right people in place, we have the right resources, we have the right individuals, and we have a lot of experience that is overseeing this case to make sure that we get this right. I take a lot of pride in this department. I love this department. I love this community, and we're going to solve this.""
To the house.
Remember about the motion to dismiss the grand jury indictment and it was denied by the judge. It wasn't long after that, the prosecution office went to 1122 King Rd, U of I said that they are doing some measurements to create a 3D model of the house for the jury to look at. That was a good time to take some mea thsurements for the cell phone towers. The defense went to the house like mid Dec 2023 and Sy Ray was with the defense team too.
Sy has his measurements that he used to help the defense team with an alibi. Then the prosecution went back to the house too. Mmm... I wonder why...
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what you do mean by state line?
I have seen reports online that their front door was swinging open in the morning too. And that students, not police, entered the crime scene first. I do think the prosecution have a little problem there.
Yes a contaminated crime scene, I agree it's will be a huge problem during the trial.
Yeah I heard about the front door being open around like 8:30 am that it was seen by a neighbor walking her dog and when Chief Fry was asked about this he said that he knew nothing about that. oh wow.
Yeah and I wonder how many students was in that house before 911 was called and we all know that 911 call didn't happen until 11:58 am. Yeah I heard about how the roommates summoned friends over before the 911 call happened. And there is no mention in the PCA about the friends being summoned over because Ethan wasn't waking up to his alarm so that he could go work on his group class project.
If you go with Kohberger being in a conspiracy theory.
It would be handy for him waiting somewhere where the Idaho police can't follow.
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And there are also reports that people armed themselves believing the attacker was still inside.
what is the conspiracy theory? Thank you