The Archie Battersbee case

[monga]

I don’t think there are any legal costs and of course NHS care is free and he is ward of court so can’t be moved. Tbh even if he was to be moved and they had to pay for his medical care that amount wouldn’t go very far and people won’t continue to donate.

That's what they are saying it's for ,his mum did a live on FB a couple of weeks ago and mentioned about the GFM for his legal costs and care it's mentioned on the GFM page .

 

[Cack Conroe]

From the NHS (emphasis is theirs):

Brain death (also known as brain stem death) is when a person on an artificial life support machine no longer has any brain functions. This means they will not regain consciousness or be able to breathe without support.

A person who's brain dead is legally confirmed as dead. They have no chance of recovery because their body is unable to survive without artificial life support.

This makes literally no sense:
Archie is only a corpse in a figurative sense.

Brain stem death is legal death because it’s necessary both for organ donations, and for futile situations like these. It’s not physical death except of the brain or brain stem itself.

A corpse is a corpse. Imaging has shown the deterioration of his brain stem and brain. Ergo, legally confirmed as dead. He cannot regulate any of his own bodily functions and if removed from a ventilator his heart would cease beating. Ergo ... dead/a corpse, with or without the ventilator. So brain death absolutely equates to physical death.

This is like banging my head against a brick wall.

 

[Weeder]

I'll try and trawl up where I read it tomorrow...

 

[Merpedy]

i thought their whole argument rested on a DNAR order being put in place anyway?

 

[Cack Conroe]

I was just about to write the same. As a medical lawyer and ethicist I've been reading these with nothing short of incredulity. The idea that the views of people who are literally trained to practise medicine with the utmost respect for medical ethics (dignity being one pillar of that) should be considered irrelevant is baffling. Those staff know that boy is dead, forcing them to perform futile interventions on him is not only 'upsetting', it goes against every ethical code they agree to uphold when they work in medicine. The views of some nutter mother who has, in my opinion, made it perfectly clear she understands neither the medical nor legal issues here, are the ones that I would consider irrelevant.

No, not the medical views but the personal ethical beliefs.

There are a lot of people twisting my words because apparently anything that disrupts their unbridled hatred for a delusional bereaved mother makes me just as bad as her.

Sorry, you are saying he is not dead until the courts say so.

When did brain stem death being a legal form of death stop being a thing? I’ve missed this bit!

Imagine if brain stem death is no longer a legal form of death and people need to legally be declared dead within court - that will cause a whole load of issues. The added stress, emotion, needless trauma to the families it would cause! Plus financial cost, lack of trust, issues like this case, etc…

The brain stem tests could not be performed. You’ve posted about this before so I’m not sure why you’re pretending not to know.

 

[chickhicks86]

I don’t get this gynaecologist thing she keeps talking about. Is it just made up? Where did a gynaecologist declare him brain dead? In the court documents there were mentions of the various intensive paediatric specialists and neurologists involved with the process.

I assumed that it was the admitting doctor at the hospital he was in first?

You watch

Attempted battles to sue for damages

Some TV interviews where she campaigns for “Archies Law”

How does she know that it was only 3 minutes? Is this the time she is clinging to so that it is not long enough to cause brain damage / death?

 

[grampositive]

Also that post from facebook "why did the gynecologist tell me his sedation took only 40 minutes..."

 

[Weeder]

How do people get onto the FB page? Are they not accepting people?

I don't know, I'm not on there. I rely on other people to tell me the latest.

I was snooping while it was open and I've commented on a couple of Dignity page threads so I don't think they'll accept me anyway.

 

[bargainbetty]

Youtube - it's still going - search for 'court 71'

Thank you.

 

[GalaxyGirl70]

When was the next court date?

 

[Cack Conroe]

Okay well you have misunderstood everything I was trying to say. It’s not that they are saying “oh Nurse Alice is super upset about poor Archie, she can’t sleep or even eat her dinner, we must turn everything off now for her sanity. There’s sad Nurse emotions everywhereeee”.

But I shall take note that you don’t want people caring for you to have any feelings or be too “precious”. Robot, stone hearted, job orientated, non person centred healthcare practitioners from now on.

I haven't misunderstood a thing, however you are now deliberately misrepresenting what I am saying.

When exactly did I say anything like what is in your last paragraph?

And you do realise that Barts Health NHS Trust's stated in court that their staff are distressed at having to provide care for Archie, as part of their reasons for taking the family to court?

 

[Purrrrrrr]

Thing is, a lot of her army clearly aren’t going to support or care for the justice system. They think it’s part of some big conspiracy

I’m all for exhausting the appeal process because that’s just a right she has but I do wonder if we may see some legal changes one day soon, at least to try and protect the child’s dignity and the staff themselves. Maybe changes to the process in general. Orinta’s mother was allowed to have two independent doctors check and they concluded the same thing so she made the decision to let her go, though I think she also collected money?

I also wonder if Hollie gets some sort of counselling for all of this. Someone mentioned that part of the reason it’s hard for her to come to terms with it is because Archie does look somewhat alive. That’s probably not something you can process on your own in that situation, and I know mental health services in this country suck but in these situations they seem essential

Granted, I’m still of the opinion that she’s in this for money. Saying in court that they want a ‘natural’ death but then telling her army that he’s going to be fine is a major change, and the whole financial model for this is basically based on Archie magically getting up one day. What’s the point in giving money to something where they will just remain in the same state?

These things always bring the same reactions from the public ( both sides) normally once the court decides the action and support is switched off the parents will as a rule accept the situation and say their goodbyes.

 

[Leascarle]

The mark on his head is from cupping as Hollie prefers holistic healing

surely it shouldn’t bruise like that ?

 

[Leascarle]

I can't see the Court of Appeal doing anything other than upholding the High Court's decision, and they'll set a date as to when the machines need to be turned off. So then they'll most likely appeal to the Supreme Court, who will also reject it. IIRC, Alfie Evans' parents even brought it before the ECHR, who dismissed it out of hand.

Archie's Army are thick, but they don't seem quite as crazily motivated as Alfie's Army. Remember the guy who turned up outside the hospital with oxygen canisters, in the hope that they could be used in transporting Alfie to Italy?

please excuse my ignorance what does IIRC mean

 

[Leascarle]

Do I have to hide their names?

I would x

 

[iieee]

Do we know when the appeal is set for?

Next Wednesday apparently.

 

[Blonde_moment]

The video Hollie’s just put up with Archie’s ‘open eyes’ has broken my heart. He’s all swollen round the eyes and his pupils are fixed. It’s utterly devastating to see.

Where are you seeing this?

 

[Purrrrrrr]

There’s a difference between seeing how long you can hold your breath for and swinging from the bannisters

That isn't the challenge. No idea if this is what he did or was indeed trying to kill himself but kids do stupid things

TikTok blackout challenge said to have killed seven children

An insane TikTok blackout challenge has been responsible for the deaths of seven children, according to a horrific new report...

9to5mac.com

 

[KittyGhosts]

What is de aliving? I’ve seen this several times now on social media. I understand commit suicide is not considerd appropriate bu surely it’s still factual to say someone has killed themselves or ended their life or died?


Indeed, I remember finding rotten.com when I was around Archie’s age. Photos of people who had died in horrific accidents, post mortem images. I was quite mature and it didn’t really affect me but it was disturbing nonetheless.

painhub to me also seems like a play on words of pornhub

I think using terms like ‘de-alibiing’ has become a way to get around censoring of posts with keywords that get flagged up?

 

[monga]

Perhaps she thinks it makes her sound better and less greedy?

There is people on the page saying they would donate to help her get through things financially as they can’t be working right now and she said no she’s fine.

I don’t know, I have a child in my family who spends a lot of time in hospital due to a life long condition and the idea of their Mom taking pictures of him unconscious and streaming live on Facebook from his bedside gives me the ick. I feel for the family, I really do but why do they need to create a circus? Do they think encouraging the army to go to court Wednesday just because it’s a public hearing will change the outcome? Meanwhile Archie has no dignity whatsoever.

Yeah it’s something I wouldn’t do , she must be getting a lot of questions about the GFM.