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KatyClover

New member
I think they've gone well beyond the beyond reasonable doubt argument, and if anything they've swerved it. Everyone seems to agree that it would have been better for the judge to have dealt with the best interests issue before going on to consider the question of whether Archie has died, and in this case she didn't really and in particular she didn't make any orders on that issue. So the argument now seems to be all around best interests, and whether the Court of Appeal should deal with this - in particular whether there is enough available evidence about it - or whether it should be sent back to the High Court for that issue to be dealt with there. The family's barrister seems to be saying the guardian didn't file much evidence about it because she too was concentrating on the issue of whether he is alive, and I think wants it to go back to the High Court, which unfortunately would result in more delay.
 
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stevenseagull

VIP Member
Me-rail: my dad died needlessly because he had such severe death anxiety, that it made him scared of medical treatment because he was so frightened of hearing something negative. Minor niggles became lethal catastrophes. He did not understand that he was harming and killing himself and couldn't process that he would actually avoid hospitals more effectively, if only he would do the initial treatments/investigations. He would lie to the doctors so they would say what he wanted to hear. He hid his medical papers from us. He would not admit to anyone the extent of his health issues. He chose which medication (very important medications) to have or to not have, and how much. He believed the body had a huge healing capacity with the correct lifestyle and diet. He would not believe or accept that some things are irreversible. Such as his self-inflicted kidney failure and subsequent heart attack. We couldn't talk to him about it because he would become too distressed (that is simplifying it - a lot). We couldn't get doctors or nurses to believe he lacked capacity and truly didn't understand that he was killing himself. We couldn't get social services involved because he would have known exactly what to say to get them off his back (also, he hated them and would have never have forgiven us and it would have been futile anyway).

I have a lot of empathy for Hollie because I have lived experience of dealing with a delusional person. Just like Hollie, my dad wasn't completely delusional, because if he was, he wouldn't have known what information to selectively share or hide, and he wouldn't have known what to say to doctors or doubters. Delusional beliefs are weird because they are genuine and strongly held, yet they are somewhat partial. Also like Hollie, my dad in some ways wasn't too bright, and also didn't have much medical or scientific knowledge. Another similarity was that hearing the right things was of the utmost importance to him. It didn't matter that the doctors telling him he was absolutely fine was based on his lies - the most important thing was that they said it. I see similarities with Hollie in that she is cultivating her followers to say things that are comforting to her, so that at least some of the time, she can retreat into a comforting fantasy that miracles exist and Archie might wake up. Even though they say these things as a result of her manipulation. There is also a similarity in that she is saying what needs to be said in court (and on some level, may logically accept it) just like my dad would say what was necessary to doctors, yet as soon as she is away she says what she really feels.

My dad had severe mental health problems, and I suspect Hollie does too. People would rally round my dad because his distress was just so extreme that you would rather prop him up emotionally with whatever he needed than let him face his genuine turmoil. He was not capable of learning or changing so there was no point in denying him. I get the sense that Archie's other family members are rallying like this for Hollie's sake. Even if they personally would rather let him go, Hollie being in Fight Mode is what is sustaining her right now, along with clinging to Archies warm body. So they are joining her because that's what she needs emotionally. Now Archie is essentially gone, their main focus is on protecting Hollie. I also suspect that her family have long since accepted that Hollie is not capable of changing or learning.
Honestly, I was about to text my sister and ask her if she was on tattle, because this sounded exactly like my dad. He really struggled with the concept of being seriously sick.
 
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grampositive

Chatty Member
She did an interview with David Icke today (lizards are ruling us, the holocaust wasn't real, COVID is fake but also simultaneously was caused by 5G etc etc)

You have to register with his channel to watch it so that's me out, but thought others might be interested!
 
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monga

VIP Member
I've seen posts where people have talked about him going back to school, having a huge party to celebrate him waking, one person wrote "I bet the first thing he'll say is how long have I been asleep and we'll say too bloody long!" A lot of people are ignoring and misunderstanding the brain death diagnosis and reckon he's just unconscious.
Tbf the wording induced coma makes it sound like the doctors have put him under to let his brain heal in some way.
 

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Former_Antelopee

VIP Member
What is de aliving? I’ve seen this several times now on social media. I understand commit suicide is not considerd appropriate bu surely it’s still factual to say someone has killed themselves or ended their life or died?


Indeed, I remember finding rotten.com when I was around Archie’s age. Photos of people who had died in horrific accidents, post mortem images. I was quite mature and it didn’t really affect me but it was disturbing nonetheless.

painhub to me also seems like a play on words of pornhub
I’m pretty sure tiktok bans the word suicide so they use de aliving or similar
 
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Gem82

Member
From one of the latest posts in the army group, it sounds like Archie has a broken neck.
 
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Merpedy

VIP Member
Archie’s mum did have someone independent but the judge was a bit scathing in her June judgment

“ The final witness was Dr Shewmon from the US. A man of expertise and considerable standing, instructed by the parents, he made a statement dated 5th June 2022, the day before the final hearing started. I was grateful for his industry. An undoubted expert in the field, he explained how the standard for death differed in the UK to that in the US. The US used whole brain death test whilst the UK concentrated on the brain stem.

Dr Shewmon gave examples of children or young people who had been found brain dead but who had made some sort of recovery. He had written extensively about these occurrences.

Overall, I found his evidence interesting but where as in Archie’s case, the brain stem death test had not been able to be administered or relied upon, his evidence was not quite so relevant. Examples of ‘miracle’ recoveries again were not helpful. I noted that unsurprisingly he had not seen the scans in Archie’s case which showed a deterioration in the condition of his brain between 15th April 2022 and 31st May 2022. In all the circumstances, his evidence did not undermine the evidence I heard from the Archie’s treating clinicians as supported by the second opinions I read. The clinicians had immediate knowledge of Archie’s medical condition and were able to examine him, his notes and the scans, this put them in a far better position than Dr Shewmon.”
This is the guy who has a very clear bias against brain stem death? Even if not, I think it was mentioned that he didn’t actually get to examine Archie which would be the whole point of an independent specialist I’d think

I was just thinking that one of the way these independent things could be bypassed is by selecting doctors that hold the same opinions as you or likely to come to the same conclusion. But then that’s probably not very independent, especially if they are benefitting from it somehow. It would probably be a lot easier to have some sort of criteria on who can act as independent doctor but some people will never be satisfied anyway
 
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MidnightAura

VIP Member
There is “supporters“ on that page advising Hollie to put hidden cameras in his room. Give me strength.

This may get me hated but the picture of her kissing Archie on the lips is just gross. Who wants a picture of a such a moment? Who takes a picture? Why is she kissing him on the lips when he has a tube in his mouth? I admit I don’t like adults that kiss children on the lips. I think it’s weird and also unhygienic if the parent smokes.
 
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Merpedy

VIP Member
Yeah Hollie, never say never. Maybe sometime in the year 4327 we will be able to de-necrotise brain tissue and restore it to its correct position in the body.
Right, I feel like she needs to be presented with the facts on the number of people who recover from these sort of injuries. Then those facts wouldn't be enough because their families/hospital chose to end life support or something along those lines? There's just no reasoning with her I reckon

I still can't really decide whether she's in this purely for the money or if it's just a nice little extra. To think she's in it purely for the money side of things is honestly disturbing because then she's knowingly interacting with the 'corpse' (sorry) of her son
 
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lastdis

VIP Member
Q please. Maybe Hollie has commissioned a unique, fancy ventilator that I’ve not encountered before but how can he not be requiring oxygen and only be “in air”?

Also a comment on the post refers to an “accident” made by, I assume, a Nurse that involved the ventilation being “turned down”. Tut tut. It was only noticed because Hollie is there 24/7 and monitoring everything, thankfully.
Oh well now she can let him pass and blame the hospital . The poor staff doing their best and getting accused of everything .
 
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Cack Conroe

Chatty Member
I thought this. It's absolutely devastating but if it was a suicide attempt, they are literally going against the boys wishes. It's absolutely heartbreaking all around, but they are literally watching his body decompose. It's so so sad.
I doubt he truly wanted to kill himself, he hung himself off the bannisters while his mum was in the bedroom on the phone. He probably thought he’d easily and quickly be saved.
 
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super grateful

Well-known member
I still don’t quite get why they can’t do the brain stem testing now if that’s all they need to confirm things for the family’s reassurance. Any muscle relaxing medications he was given very early on would be well worn off by now and he 100% meets the criteria for testing. I’m not sure how he didn’t meet the criteria to begin with tbh, as it’s never properly been released in detail.

But given he was declared dead on 31st May, and will have a death certificate stating that day (as required), I imagine anymore tests won’t be happening.

Another reason for ethical and emotional distress, by the way. Looking after a patient with a filled out death certificate isn’t normal.
 
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Weeder

Chatty Member
I do think the people around her are enabling and encouraging this whole thing. I would be very interested if anyone in her family tried to be a voice of reason or if they have all just gone along with her wishes, I know that my parents and in-laws would never go along with all of this and wouldn’t support it at all.
I think Hollie is a bit enamoured with Ella, who seems to be neck deep in this. She seems slightly more pulled together than the rest of them, if no less irritatingly stupid.
 
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