Legal semantics are important whether we like it or not though. They’re there to protect people, in this case Archie
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Clearly and obviously, but I do hate people using this type of situation purely for their own ends, which is what Hollie is doing. She doesn't care really about justice or fairness. Just delaying.
I know. Some people are speaking as if the parents have taken the hospital trust to court.
She could genuinely believe he’s still alive tbf
I also have a hard time believing that this is all about him just being alive and fighting though. The majority of parents in this situation wouldn’t go public to such an extent, I see the need for crowdfunding in cases where probono work isn’t available like this, and seemingly be playing to gather more money from that public by lying
It’s not just “legal semantics”, a lot went wrong.
Obviously the parents are pressing ahead because they can’t bear to turn off life support.
This is just the legal reason they are allowed to appeal.
I think that has just been worded wrongly. I think they are saying that:
Point 1) it is lawful and in his best interests that he receives life sustaining treatment which everyone agrees with but
Point 2) if he had a cardiac arrest and required CPR and administration for further life sustaining treatment (on top of the lot he’s currently needing) this wouldn’t be kind and in his best interests, which everyone including his parents agree with.
I may be wrong, but that’s how I have interpreted it?
But I don’t get it, because to me it isn’t in his best interests even now.
There isn’t an official difference between life sustaining treatment and intensive care because we don’t classify treatments in that way, but I guess people may be misusing them like “generic intensive care” whereby people have DNARs in place but still are receiving invasive treatments and care, but are not for heavy / hardcore treatment such as CPR / resus / filtration / inotropes / vasopressors / etc, which may be classed as “life sustaining”. X
this seems to give a bit more info on what the family request is
I don’t want to spam the whole thread with updates but this seemed relevant given the abovr
Every time she posts something in that echo chamber Facebook group she gets dozens/hundreds of comments about how it'll be "any day now", "he's a fighter", etc, and people posting links to other stories of people making miraculous recoveries after being in comas. You can't really blame her for having hope when in her world it must feel like her and her "army" against the doctors.
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I may have completely misunderstood but Archie is not in a coma is he? If not, then why is the BBC is continually referring to a coma, which may people think is a recoverable state and this isn't the case here.
Please correct me if I am wrong as I am getting annoyed with BBC.
Can I thank the qualified people on this thread for taking so much time to explain the workings of an ICU. I had no idea (thankfully) of the complexities involved and I feel I have learned something important by being here.
Please correct me if I am wrong as I am getting annoyed with BBC.
Can I thank the qualified people on this thread for taking so much time to explain the workings of an ICU. I had no idea (thankfully) of the complexities involved and I feel I have learned something important by being here.
Here is the link for when Archie’s parents won their right to appeal in late June
Yeah the word “coma” is a difficult one. He’s not unconscious due to being critically unwell or in an induced coma due to sedative medications being administered, he’s brain stem dead ie way beyond any sort of coma.
I really understand that it is so hard to wrap your head around. Even when I have patients who are waiting for withdrawal of life sustaining treatment or waiting to donate their organs, so are brain stem dead and still on ventilators and their chests are rising and falling, they’re warm and pink, etc - they look like they are deeply sedated and peaceful, not like a corpse. But the family have been told the ins and outs a million times I imagine, so they truly have gone beyond the usual denial and shock phase now and this is just refusing to take any information on board by choice.
I really understand that it is so hard to wrap your head around. Even when I have patients who are waiting for withdrawal of life sustaining treatment or waiting to donate their organs, so are brain stem dead and still on ventilators and their chests are rising and falling, they’re warm and pink, etc - they look like they are deeply sedated and peaceful, not like a corpse. But the family have been told the ins and outs a million times I imagine, so they truly have gone beyond the usual denial and shock phase now and this is just refusing to take any information on board by choice.
Friday at 10.30am.
Poor Archie
Poor Archie
i thought their whole argument rested on a DNAR order being put in place anyway?
They are being overlooked for Archie’s sake. She would just keep sending this around in circles.
The DNAR is one small mercy, I suppose.
I assume his body will give up once the support is removed and that will be her answer.
I’m not an icu nurse (medically trained however ) but this just seems like endless semantics to me. The statement makes no sense and seems to be twisted for whatever frankenmedicine the family want
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