Why would anyone want their loved one to die in an unplanned, chaotic way? There could be no warning - who's to say it wouldn't happen when Hollie's doing one of her numerous TV interviews? Much better for the family to be able to gather at a set time to say their goodbyes. Let's face it, he's not going to last very long at all once the treatment is withdrawn.
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That’s cause they went over to the dignity pages with in minutes of been out court and unleashed abuse in there from what was said on thereI think so tooshe’s suspiciously quiet on the army page. All asking for updates but there’s nothing
I really really wish that there was hope for him, more than anything. For his sake. But realistically he's already gone.
I feel really sorry for the families who have been in the same position and let their child go without all this now having to see there nightmares all over the news.
I feel really sorry for the families who have been in the same position and let their child go without all this now having to see there nightmares all over the news.
I've been reading the Dignity for all FB page and they've posted this.......
Someone shared this too
Why does she not get someone to proof read these before she posts them. They are SO hard to read and she is not using coherent sentences. You'd think she might run it by someone before posting to the masses!
Grieving is a really individual process. It is also highly sensitive and simple words that can devastate one person can be a comfort to another. Some people want to get rid of all their loved one's stuff immediately as they can't bear to look at it. Others cling onto their stuff and can't bear to change anything. Some people can't cope with looking at photos of the deceased, other people find it comforting.
When my dad was in the ITU in December, the doctor who told us he was going to die in an hour if the procedure didn't work was cordial and matter of fact. This minimised distress for me as I would find dealing with other people's display of emotions a burden and would have made me panic. However my brother perceived him as cold and unpleasant (his perception turned out to be right as when he came to tell us the procedure didn't help and he was about to die, I asked a question and he shouted at me).
While my dad howled during this procedure, the staff were laughing and joking outside the curtain. It didn't bother me as seeing everyone behaving normally was a comfort to me. I rationalised this that they are hardened. I also hoped this audible normality might somehow be comforting in some way for my dad. Meanwhile, my brother found it inappropriate and hurtful.
I can't see why some people can't understand, given that everyone responds to grief differently, that Archie's family may find an unplanned death easier to deal with than a choreographed one, to use their word.
It's not what I personally want in that situation, and maybe a minority of people prefer the unknown. But I totally understand that the prospect of knowing that certain, final death is looming must be unbearably harrowing and anxiety provoking, and Archie's family feel they can cope better if it is unplanned. Although some are cynical, I do think they really have found faith in this difficult time (they wouldn't have bothered with the baptisms otherwise, it actually makes them look less Christian that they left it to adulthood/death, so it's not for show) and they are rationalising their bereavement preferences as God's will.
I know and agree that man is keeping Archie alive against nature, but the family probably think this is irrelevant as you could then say all live-sustaining or life-saving treatments are by man rather than God.
Also knowing how sensitive and individualised bereavement is, I don't understand why some people refuse to believe that somebody may have said something that was hurtful to Hollie or other family members during this time, especially the initial time when Hollie said they were "cold" and had no empathy. The doctors/nurses may not have even said or done anything "wrong" per se, just something that was hurtful for her, and may have been fine for someone else. The hero worship is so strong that some people refuse to believe that NHS doctors and nurses are anything other than perfect at all times, including in interpersonal interactions when it is humanly impossible to always get it right. Even more so with the bereaved mother of a hanged child.
Finally I don't understand how anyone who has had any dealings whatsoever as a patient finds it hard to believe the mere possibility that the doctors did not effectively communicate with Archies family when sending him over to the Royal London. There are miscommunications all the time, and as a patient it can make it really hard to navigate getting treatments or referrals.
ITU doctors are busy, and it may have been as simple doctors not realising that Hollie wasn't hearing or processing the part were they said "this may turn out to not be possible".
When my dad was in the ITU in December, the doctor who told us he was going to die in an hour if the procedure didn't work was cordial and matter of fact. This minimised distress for me as I would find dealing with other people's display of emotions a burden and would have made me panic. However my brother perceived him as cold and unpleasant (his perception turned out to be right as when he came to tell us the procedure didn't help and he was about to die, I asked a question and he shouted at me).
While my dad howled during this procedure, the staff were laughing and joking outside the curtain. It didn't bother me as seeing everyone behaving normally was a comfort to me. I rationalised this that they are hardened. I also hoped this audible normality might somehow be comforting in some way for my dad. Meanwhile, my brother found it inappropriate and hurtful.
I can't see why some people can't understand, given that everyone responds to grief differently, that Archie's family may find an unplanned death easier to deal with than a choreographed one, to use their word.
It's not what I personally want in that situation, and maybe a minority of people prefer the unknown. But I totally understand that the prospect of knowing that certain, final death is looming must be unbearably harrowing and anxiety provoking, and Archie's family feel they can cope better if it is unplanned. Although some are cynical, I do think they really have found faith in this difficult time (they wouldn't have bothered with the baptisms otherwise, it actually makes them look less Christian that they left it to adulthood/death, so it's not for show) and they are rationalising their bereavement preferences as God's will.
I know and agree that man is keeping Archie alive against nature, but the family probably think this is irrelevant as you could then say all live-sustaining or life-saving treatments are by man rather than God.
Also knowing how sensitive and individualised bereavement is, I don't understand why some people refuse to believe that somebody may have said something that was hurtful to Hollie or other family members during this time, especially the initial time when Hollie said they were "cold" and had no empathy. The doctors/nurses may not have even said or done anything "wrong" per se, just something that was hurtful for her, and may have been fine for someone else. The hero worship is so strong that some people refuse to believe that NHS doctors and nurses are anything other than perfect at all times, including in interpersonal interactions when it is humanly impossible to always get it right. Even more so with the bereaved mother of a hanged child.
Finally I don't understand how anyone who has had any dealings whatsoever as a patient finds it hard to believe the mere possibility that the doctors did not effectively communicate with Archies family when sending him over to the Royal London. There are miscommunications all the time, and as a patient it can make it really hard to navigate getting treatments or referrals.
ITU doctors are busy, and it may have been as simple doctors not realising that Hollie wasn't hearing or processing the part were they said "this may turn out to not be possible".
Absolutely not what she said in court today according to the reporting though. Desperate attempt to cling on to her "army". They're clamouring for an update.
Is she smarter then she is letting on? She admitted in court she knows he’s going to die. That’s what she’s fighting for now - how. But she doesn’t say this to her chocolate cake fixing army because she knows go to get them chomping at the bit for attention
I went back to see what has been reported on their stance and it’s apparent to me now that she still believes that there is a small chance he could get better:
Granted she does make it seem on the army page like she thinks there is a high chance of him just waking up?
The only thing I’m still struggling to make sense of is her anger at the DNAR order as under their plan that would be in place anyway, I doubt a law professor would have been confused with what’s being presented in court
There could be some confusion between her and her barristers, but I think DFA mentioned that she seemed to have a new barrister so I’m really not sure what’s going on there as I don’t think her barristers would be allowed to present a plan by the family without Hollie/the family actually agreeing with it. It could also be that she genuinely just feels that it was a compromise to the Trust to get the judge decide in her favour, in which case DFA’s comment about the trust “making her” (I think that was the wording used) put an DNAR order in place would make senseI do feel like there’s a strong possibility, especially given the other post she has made, that she hasn’t understood how best interest cases are actually decided. Maybe it hasn’t been explained to her or it’s more likely that she’s hanging on to any hope she can get. Some others here have already said how a lot of the army are basically exploiting her emotions around this with their comments that there’s some sort of future where he wakes up and everything is fine
Someone above did say that by attempting and failing resuscitation the death may genuinely just feel more “natural” to the family which makes sense too, sort of goes in hand with what the long comment above also says
Me-rail: my dad died needlessly because he had such severe death anxiety, that it made him scared of medical treatment because he was so frightened of hearing something negative. Minor niggles became lethal catastrophes. He did not understand that he was harming and killing himself and couldn't process that he would actually avoid hospitals more effectively, if only he would do the initial treatments/investigations. He would lie to the doctors so they would say what he wanted to hear. He hid his medical papers from us. He would not admit to anyone the extent of his health issues. He chose which medication (very important medications) to have or to not have, and how much. He believed the body had a huge healing capacity with the correct lifestyle and diet. He would not believe or accept that some things are irreversible. Such as his self-inflicted kidney failure and subsequent heart attack. We couldn't talk to him about it because he would become too distressed (that is simplifying it - a lot). We couldn't get doctors or nurses to believe he lacked capacity and truly didn't understand that he was killing himself. We couldn't get social services involved because he would have known exactly what to say to get them off his back (also, he hated them and would have never have forgiven us and it would have been futile anyway).
I have a lot of empathy for Hollie because I have lived experience of dealing with a delusional person. Just like Hollie, my dad wasn't completely delusional, because if he was, he wouldn't have known what information to selectively share or hide, and he wouldn't have known what to say to doctors or doubters. Delusional beliefs are weird because they are genuine and strongly held, yet they are somewhat partial. Also like Hollie, my dad in some ways wasn't too bright, and also didn't have much medical or scientific knowledge. Another similarity was that hearing the right things was of the utmost importance to him. It didn't matter that the doctors telling him he was absolutely fine was based on his lies - the most important thing was that they said it. I see similarities with Hollie in that she is cultivating her followers to say things that are comforting to her, so that at least some of the time, she can retreat into a comforting fantasy that miracles exist and Archie might wake up. Even though they say these things as a result of her manipulation. There is also a similarity in that she is saying what needs to be said in court (and on some level, may logically accept it) just like my dad would say what was necessary to doctors, yet as soon as she is away she says what she really feels.
My dad had severe mental health problems, and I suspect Hollie does too. People would rally round my dad because his distress was just so extreme that you would rather prop him up emotionally with whatever he needed than let him face his genuine turmoil. He was not capable of learning or changing so there was no point in denying him. I get the sense that Archie's other family members are rallying like this for Hollie's sake. Even if they personally would rather let him go, Hollie being in Fight Mode is what is sustaining her right now, along with clinging to Archies warm body. So they are joining her because that's what she needs emotionally. Now Archie is essentially gone, their main focus is on protecting Hollie. I also suspect that her family have long since accepted that Hollie is not capable of changing or learning.
I have a lot of empathy for Hollie because I have lived experience of dealing with a delusional person. Just like Hollie, my dad wasn't completely delusional, because if he was, he wouldn't have known what information to selectively share or hide, and he wouldn't have known what to say to doctors or doubters. Delusional beliefs are weird because they are genuine and strongly held, yet they are somewhat partial. Also like Hollie, my dad in some ways wasn't too bright, and also didn't have much medical or scientific knowledge. Another similarity was that hearing the right things was of the utmost importance to him. It didn't matter that the doctors telling him he was absolutely fine was based on his lies - the most important thing was that they said it. I see similarities with Hollie in that she is cultivating her followers to say things that are comforting to her, so that at least some of the time, she can retreat into a comforting fantasy that miracles exist and Archie might wake up. Even though they say these things as a result of her manipulation. There is also a similarity in that she is saying what needs to be said in court (and on some level, may logically accept it) just like my dad would say what was necessary to doctors, yet as soon as she is away she says what she really feels.
My dad had severe mental health problems, and I suspect Hollie does too. People would rally round my dad because his distress was just so extreme that you would rather prop him up emotionally with whatever he needed than let him face his genuine turmoil. He was not capable of learning or changing so there was no point in denying him. I get the sense that Archie's other family members are rallying like this for Hollie's sake. Even if they personally would rather let him go, Hollie being in Fight Mode is what is sustaining her right now, along with clinging to Archies warm body. So they are joining her because that's what she needs emotionally. Now Archie is essentially gone, their main focus is on protecting Hollie. I also suspect that her family have long since accepted that Hollie is not capable of changing or learning.
Nope. Not buying it.
Yeah Hollie, never say never. Maybe sometime in the year 4327 we will be able to de-necrotise brain tissue and restore it to its correct position in the body.
Tells the court one thing, tells her neanderthal followers something else. They're all too stupid to read actual news from a reliable source and instead hang on her every word.
I think she knows 100% that he's gone, but she craves her new-found infamy so much that she keeps up the charade for her supporters.
She is never going to accept what they say.
Right, I feel like she needs to be presented with the facts on the number of people who recover from these sort of injuries. Then those facts wouldn't be enough because their families/hospital chose to end life support or something along those lines? There's just no reasoning with her I reckon
I still can't really decide whether she's in this purely for the money or if it's just a nice little extra. To think she's in it purely for the money side of things is honestly disturbing because then she's knowingly interacting with the 'corpse' (sorry) of her son
A miscommunication can be remedied, a misunderstand can be set right. Even a significant loss of trust can be worked on. In this case she will NEVER be satisfied unless she gets what she wants. And what she is asking for is completely unreasonable. How many people get to choose how and when their child dies?! And who chooses it to be completely random, sudden and unexpected? It makes no sense. But even if it did, ultimately she is demanding and demanding against all reason and that’s why I lose sympathy. She is disrespectful to the point of being offensive.
I’m not sure about Friday or the reasons for things being public / not public, but I agree with the need for a DNAR. It’s not in the child’s best interests to be resuscitated should he have a cardiac arrest because he would not make a recovery from it that would bring him back to a level that is “of substantial quality of life”. (Because his baseline is currently dead and there isn’t really a worse baseline than that…) x
At this point shes just being selfish!! The poor lad is clearly gone. She should just do the decent thing and let him go peacefully instead of having him bedblock an already gridlocked nhs! Selfish!!
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