The Archie Battersbee case

[stevenseagull]

Telling people that the children hospital has death chambers goes beyond “compassion for a grieving mother”

 

[FogOfWar]

wants to look at holistic treatments.

Aye, a bit of lavender oil and some cloves and that brain stem necrosis will buff right out.

 

[WeepingCassandra]

If he’s coned then life isn’t viable sadly. That would happen fairly quickly after he jumped/hanged/whatever the mum wants to say. Even if you could resurrect him he’d be beyond incredibly impaired, would have no quality of life and wouldn’t live for more than a few minutes without life support.

Unfortunately cases like this are starting to be more common as people have access to so much medical misinformation and our medical model moves towards a very American “patient knows best” style of relationship. Surprisingly people who went to university for 3/5/6/10 years tend to know a wee bit more about these things than Susan who’s worked in Morrisons her entire life but increasingly people believe they’re the correct party. Obviously no medical professional is infallible but in cases like this so many people will have looked at this boy and made the same conclusion. It’s not a directed assault against them but grief does funny funny things.

 

[Boring Monday]

Is it totally wrong of me to cringe at the spelling and think if you’re going to have a public rant, make it a well spelt and coherent one?

 

[bubbadabut]

Daily Mail sad face when he gets conjunctivitis...grins like a Cheshire Cat when he's lying brain dead next to her in hospital

 

[sheleg]

This may sound harsh but these cases do nobody and good, least of all the children at the centre of them, and their parents whose delusions are stoked by mawkish imbecile online with zero medical knowledge.

 

[stevenseagull]

In todays episode of “groundbreaking medical science”

 

[super grateful]

His heart will be “beating” because he is likely on inotropes/vasopressors. If they are stopped, his BP/HR will likely be non existent. His body will be requiring a lot of aggressive treatment to keep going at the moment, and I use the word testament very, very loosely as what he is receiving isn’t treatment at all, it’s pro-longing, unnecessary intervention.

 

[Droosie123]

As a nurse I am getting to the point of wanting abusive relatives removed …even IF they are parents of a dying child who cannot be saved.
It’s never happened but the Charlie Gard case sickened me, These people supporting such behaviour are low IQ arseholes with no idea of the safeguards in place to look at brain death.

Archie isn’t in a coma, Archie died to all intents and purposes at the end of May.

That said…he is not in any pain and I support his Mum doing what she feels she has to do in order to cope with life once the inevitable occurs.

 

[stevenseagull]

The woman is a fucking imbecile. A covid denying, 5G conspiracy theorist who even today is complaining that she hates all the drugs he’s having to take and wants to look at holistic treatments.

Does she deserve this? No.

Is she a stupid fucking dangerous cunt? Yes.

 

[super grateful]

How long can somebody survive if
their brainstem is gone? I know nothing about this type of nursing as I was only a care home nurse. What are the processes involved in keeping his heart beating?

Firstly, you were not ONLY a care home Nurse! X

It takes a looottt. It's only done in situations where family are waiting for other members to arrive and say good bye, the family just need an extra day or so, or the patient is donating their organs and the matches etc are being sorted out (usually 48hrs absolute maximum).

Firstly, A & B, you have to ventilate the patient as their brainstem is gone so they cannot breathe or initiate breaths for themselves. So everything that comes along with ventilation. Clearing secretions, chest care, managing how much oxygen/CO2 etc goes in and out.

C, supporting everything cardiovascular wise. Making a patient breathe will of course initiate some cardiac response but it'll need to be backed up by medications such as inotropes/vasopressors which after a while are pretty nasty to your body. They will be being titrated regularly. Turning someone, adjusting someone's O2, anything, can affect their BP meaning they need more/less medication. Also temperature needs managing. And then things like potassium, sodium, bicarb, blood, everything.

D, if you are brainstem dead you are GCS 3, no response at all. You might still have 'flickers' so maybe a toe jerk or what looks like a spasm but this usually stops after a day or so.

E, skin will become mottled and vulnerable. Pressure sores, skin breaking down, etc.

F, kidneys will begin to fail so clearing toxins will become difficult and fluid won't shift as it should. Won't produce as much urine etc.

G, need feeding via a tube in nose/stomach, but this is usually stopped as their isn't any 'point' but I imagine in this case the family aren't allowing it to stop. Bowels will stop working, stomach will stop absorbing the liquid feed.

I, lots of infection as the body just can't fight anything any more. Not sure if they're giving antibiotics, there isn't any point in doing so (sorry to sound so harsh) but again I imagine the family won't allow anyone not to.

P, unsure if anyone can feel pain at this point but obviously as humans you like to think people can, so pain relief is often given as a kindness. So that's something.

Just awful really. X

Sorry, super quick explanation and I definitely missed loads out.

 

[BeansOnBeans]

It's fine to care but it's not acceptable for the emotional needs of staff to be centered. They should not have a stake in this and I find it ridiculous that their "distress" from doing their job should be given any credence at all. These people see horrific injuries and tremendous pain on a regular basis and we are supposed to believe that caring for Archie - who is universally agreed to not be suffering - is somehow emotionally damaging them, to the point their precious feelings should be considered in court.

Yeah I mean, fuck those guys having to care for a dead body day in day out whilst being told they are shit at their job and having feelings.

 

[TooFarScone]

This disgusts me...

 

[MidnightAura]

My heart goes out to his family. The grief vultures make me so angry. Their army page is just awful saying vile things about the judge, the doctors and anyone who brings up medical evidence.
Also I find it really creepy when complete strangers to this boy are saying they love him and are putting up photos and buying t shirts? I’m sorry but that’s sick. Posting images of this wee boy in a nappy on a ventilator just seems wrong.

 

[sheleg]

It will turn into a shit show like poor Azaylia Cain’s death and subsequent circus.

 

[Apple In My Pie]

I feel so sorry for the family, such a tragic loss of life. I’ve been seeing that the boy did a ‘tiktok trend gone wrong’, that bit baffled me as I’m on tiktok a lot and have younger family members who love doing all the trends on tiktok and I haven’t heard of a trend like this. but that said i also think there is more to the story than meets the eye.

I am not religious so can’t comment on the religious aspect, but, I don’t believe that it is God keeping Archie alive; it is man, it is machine, and if Archie wasn’t connected to those ventilators I don’t believe he would survive, and if he did he would have a poor quality of life, that I don’t think anyone would enjoy or want for themselves.

It reminds me of the Alfie Evans and Charlie Gard cases. I hope the poor boy is allowed to pass peacefully.

 

[Felix08]

Again, just from my own experience of currently working in a neuro ICU, we have patients transferred to us all the time for emergency surgery and when they get here the surgeons examine them further and decide they actually can’t operate. Before they arrive, the surgeons only have scans / verbal reports to go on so have to make a quick decision about whether or not the other hospital should quickly transfer them or not. And given he is so young they probably thought it was worth a shot. Transferring a critically ill person is a big deal and often they deteriorate further en route. Poor boy probably arrived, they did their own scans etc, checked his pupils, saw how much ventilation etc he was requiring and sadly decided he was beyond surgery.

It’s hard for the family because in their eyes they’re going to this other place to be saved and have everything fixed. But it’s just to be in the right place IF the chance of surgery IS an option. And I’m pretty sure that would have been communicated to them. Whatever anyone’s views on medical professionals, wherever they have come from, I’ve never met anyone who goes out of their way to snub a relative or leave them out of conversations / decision making and thinks they are better than anyone else, just has the relevant eduction and tools to make the correct and informed decisions.



I also don’t think the staff feeling “uncomfortable” is meant in the way you have interpreted it. It’s not that they don’t fancy it anymore. It’s not about the medical team at all, however their opinions must be taken into account as they are caring for him 24/7 and know that is medically best. There are many ethical and moral dilemmas to what is going on. Have you ever spent 13hrs administering medication to a decaying body knowing it’s not doing any good? Knowing it’s causing grief and trauma to the family? Knowing there is no “good” end goal for anyone involved is harrowing and ultimately just delaying the grieving process further. There is no dignity in that.

Agree, I work in hospital and there are many times that we question what we are doing is right or even ethical. There are many cases were we are expected to prolong treatment for family because they are not ready to let go yet fail to understand that we are prolonging suffering for the patients.

yes there are communications error In hospital, I dont deny that but there are also patients and families who dont listen, dont want to accept something, just dont agree and simply dont understand.

I do believe that this family falls in the dont agree, dont accept and dont understand category.

 

[Adam KG]

Archie's mother is trash, she appears to love the press attention, she should not have allowed degrading images of her son to be published.
There is no chance of recovery, Archie is dead and should be allowed to die with dignity and he should not be used by those who are supposed to love him.
It is sad when anyone commits suicide especially so at only 12 years old.

 

[Apple In My Pie]

His brain is rotting to the point of falling into his spinal column. Let’s say they removed the tubes, removed the machines, took away the staff looking after Archie. Say he proved everyone wrong and his body was able to function. But with his brain as damaged as it is he remains unable to react to the world around him, to enjoy things, to speak, to move. What quality of life would he have? That boy, who as far as I can see was a boisterous and active boy in life, would he want this life for himself, a life where his body kept going but his brain did not. Especially when he was distressed enough to decide to commit suicide when his life was that of a typical twelve year old, thriving in gymnastics, boxing, school etc.

I don’t believe so. Nor do I believe he would want his mum splashing him all over Facebook with teddies, in a nappy, paraded around to be looked at by strangers, every bodily function reported on, seeming so different to the boy he once was. Of course I cannot know for certain, being a stranger, but I know I would not want this outcome for myself.

That is what I find undignified about it all.

 

[Mollywobbles]

My mother was on life support and we had to let her go.
They don't just "switch off " the machines.
They removed all non essential machinery and tubes just leaving the breathing bit.
Then they gradually reduced the oxygen until she gently slipped away.
It was very gentle and peaceful