The Archie Battersbee case

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I wonder if the Army will try and scrounge more donations following the story of the young boy with neuroblastoma making the news. Over £200k was raised for him to have treatment in the US.

His and Archie's conditions are of course completely non-comparable, but I'm sure they won't let that stop them.
 
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Hollie also said this doctor was a founder of the Royal London hospital.

Which was founded in 1740.

They must be knackered!
Perhaps they too have been artificially kept alive by family members whose grief has overtaken their reason.
 
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I think the appeal actually happens on the 11th. It seems like such a long time .
 
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Complaining today she can’t bring in her own physio - it’s like she has a terrible grasp on just how delicate he is and the wrong move could pull out a tube and then what? Hospital liable.

It’s beyond denial.

His poor dad seems much more sympathetic tbh
 
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Gosh, that seems an extraordinary length of time for Archie............ and then will they be able to appeal the results of this one?

I am truly staggered that the legal processes don't protect children like Archie and allows the deceased to be invasively managed whilst the parents can go on a long journey of denial :cry:
 
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Gosh, that seems an extraordinary length of time for Archie............ and then will they be able to appeal the results of this one?

I am truly staggered that the legal processes don't protect children like Archie and allows the deceased to be invasively managed whilst the parents can go on a long journey of denial :cry:
Everything I'm about to say is pure conjecture from 20 yrs in the NHS . I think there's a real problem with types of mediation available to families like these..by which I mean short of understanding. There really is a culture of opinion over fact , encouraged partly by social media, but also poor education. So perhaps a doctor might not get how to speak to chavs (I'm no snob, but honestly you have to be able to speak other peoples' language). You've got these 2 totally different social strata trying to communicate with one another and it doesn't work .

I have long found that while the hospitals are good clinical decision makers, actual foot stamping rarely happens. Hollie in her limited experience is seeing wishy washy language that she doesn't understand, because again medicine is avoiding talking in absolutes.
 
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He is probably being moved every so often to prevent pressure sores, let alone getting someone in for physio.

They don't seem to have any insight. If they put a message on the AA saying they know the outcome of Archies diagnosis, they wish for him to go naturally and for his heart to give out on the life support, he won't be walking out the hospital etc, then I would understand.

But the constant barrage of 'wake up, open your eyes, he is reacting to xyz, the clinical team arn't interested' etc isn't helping.

Everyone on the AA fb seems to be a qualified physiotherapist this morning.
 
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Complaining today she can’t bring in her own physio - it’s like she has a terrible grasp on just how delicate he is and the wrong move could pull out a tube and then what? Hospital liable.

It’s beyond denial.

His poor dad seems much more sympathetic tbh
It’s almost like the NHS has a duty of care to the people in its beds and don’t just allow any shaman in to tinker with them.
 
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He is probably being moved every so often to prevent pressure sores, let alone getting someone in for physio.

They don't seem to have any insight. If they put a message on the AA saying they know the outcome of Archies diagnosis, they wish for him to go naturally and for his heart to give out on the life support, he won't be walking out the hospital etc, then I would understand.

But the constant barrage of 'wake up, open your eyes, he is reacting to xyz, the clinical team arn't interested' etc isn't helping.

Everyone on the AA fb seems to be a qualified physiotherapist this morning.
Right now I'm thinking she's just a massive tit stirrer. Is there anything she hasn't thought of to make a thorn of herself to everyone.. It's like she wakes up and thinks 'What can I irritate them with today'

He's not a toy laying there. Movement will likely affect his vitals, and any physio will be carefully managed. Besides, what type of freak clinician voluntarily would do this ? Hollie is traipsing people in and out of there, through an ITU to gawk at a dead body, and putting everyone else at risk.

The most revealing and definitive thing for me is his scans and the facts. In court their solicitor has even said they accept he's going to die and won't recover. Outside court it seems the exact opposite. She is playing games for attention, and the NHS aren't really in a position to tell her to foxtrot oscar...although someone's going to have to step up at some point,
 
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I'm not sure how they can manage the inevitable here given the breakdown between family and medical staff. They were able to move Charlie Gard for his final hours but I remember that it took a huge medical team to do so because he was essentially being kept artificially alive too, and it had to be a hospice, not their home to manage his medical needs. I can't see that Archie would be up to such a move given the intensive medical management of his living death :cry:

It's going to be horrific for the staff to have to manage the family at this point.
 
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I'm not sure how they can manage the inevitable here given the breakdown between family and medical staff. They were able to move Charlie Gard for his final hours but I remember that it took a huge medical team to do so because he was essentially being kept artificially alive too, and it had to be a hospice, not their home to manage his medical needs. I can't see that Archie would be up to such a move given the intensive medical management of his living death :cry:

It's going to be horrific for the staff to have to manage the family at this point.
I don't think they'd move him either, but you never know what they might demand. I feel like there's a lot bubbling away that she'll fling around when it suits.
 
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They'll still be wanting a physiotherapist once the inevitable rigor mortis sets in.
 
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Everything I'm about to say is pure conjecture from 20 yrs in the NHS . I think there's a real problem with types of mediation available to families like these..by which I mean short of understanding. There really is a culture of opinion over fact , encouraged partly by social media, but also poor education. So perhaps a doctor might not get how to speak to chavs (I'm no snob, but honestly you have to be able to speak other peoples' language). You've got these 2 totally different social strata trying to communicate with one another and it doesn't work .

I have long found that while the hospitals are good clinical decision makers, actual foot stamping rarely happens. Hollie in her limited experience is seeing wishy washy language that she doesn't understand, because again medicine is avoiding talking in absolutes.
These types of people have absolute hysterics if they hear the 'D' word. They're very socially and psychologically immature and the doctors pander to them. When we were in hospital dealing with mother in law's terminal decline the registrar was shocked because I told him she was dying - you could quite clearly see it - he wouldn't have it and wanted to conduct invasive tests which dh refused. She died four days later. Most doctors are frightened of relatives because they're not used to dealing with the lower echelons. Chavs have massive amounts of stupidity and confidence in equal measure 🤦‍♀️

He is probably being moved every so often to prevent pressure sores, let alone getting someone in for physio.

They don't seem to have any insight. If they put a message on the AA saying they know the outcome of Archies diagnosis, they wish for him to go naturally and for his heart to give out on the life support, he won't be walking out the hospital etc, then I would understand.

But the constant barrage of 'wake up, open your eyes, he is reacting to xyz, the clinical team arn't interested' etc isn't helping.

Everyone on the AA fb seems to be a qualified physiotherapist this morning.
How do you join that page? I can't get in even though I've requested to.
 
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Everything I'm about to say is pure conjecture from 20 yrs in the NHS . I think there's a real problem with types of mediation available to families like these..by which I mean short of understanding. There really is a culture of opinion over fact , encouraged partly by social media, but also poor education. So perhaps a doctor might not get how to speak to chavs (I'm no snob, but honestly you have to be able to speak other peoples' language). You've got these 2 totally different social strata trying to communicate with one another and it doesn't work .

I have long found that while the hospitals are good clinical decision makers, actual foot stamping rarely happens. Hollie in her limited experience is seeing wishy washy language that she doesn't understand, because again medicine is avoiding talking in absolutes.
A breakdown in communication is a key factor in this whole thing. It looks like early on when Archie was brought to Southend Hollie was given (or interpreted) hope of a recovery for Archie. Then ever since they arrived at Royal London they've been given a more accurate but more bleak picture. They refuse to believe it or think it's a mistake because Southend unintentionally gave them a more optimistic outlook. It does sound, if we follow Hollie's version, that the Royal London weren't prepared to deal with the type of person she is and made a mess of that. She's said about how a doctor who told them that Archie was dead was very cold towards them, and how she was shocked that within 3 days they wanted to end life support. The doctors at Royal London were being professional but whatever approach they took with her in the early days has broken any sort of trust between the hospital and the family.
 
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