The Archie Battersbee case

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acsunderland

I agree with u, they say they wish him to die naturally surely without machines he would not survive
 
Reactions: 9

GalaxyGirl70

It's very waffly and I'm struggling to understand what exactly they're trying to debate tbh.....................
 
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GalaxyGirl70

From what I'm gathering, they're arguing about legal technicalities rather than any new information or information that was missed in the 1st judgement?..... which would indicate to me that they're floundering..........
 
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kittenattack

People like this claim to care about their family members, yet they're utterly barbaric in their treatment demands. I used to have families that would go mad if you administered pain relief to a terminally ill person because it might render them sleepy and they wouldn't want to eat or drink - which dying people naturally don't want to do because it causes so much discomfort and difficulty breathing as well.
 
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judgejohndeed

GalaxyGirl70 said:
From what I'm gathering, they're arguing about legal technicalities rather than any new information or information that was missed in the 1st judgement?..... which would indicate to me that they're floundering..........
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I wouldn't say floundering. They're arguing a different legal test should be applied as to whether he is dead. The decision had been made on a 'balance of probabilities' which is a test used in civil cases and is a lower threshold than the criminal test. They are arguing that the criminal test 'beyond reasonable doubt' should be applied instead given the stakes are so high (a child's life). The whole appeal is based on the legal technicality and was allowed on this basis, it doesn't have to be about new information or missing info

Legally it's actually very interesting and will probably make a landmark case but for the general public it's probably very dull.
 
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GalaxyGirl70

That's very helpful, thank you @judgejohndeed - I wasn't aware that's why the appeal had been allowed.

I think they need subtitles for the general public........
 
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KatyClover

I think they've gone well beyond the beyond reasonable doubt argument, and if anything they've swerved it. Everyone seems to agree that it would have been better for the judge to have dealt with the best interests issue before going on to consider the question of whether Archie has died, and in this case she didn't really and in particular she didn't make any orders on that issue. So the argument now seems to be all around best interests, and whether the Court of Appeal should deal with this - in particular whether there is enough available evidence about it - or whether it should be sent back to the High Court for that issue to be dealt with there. The family's barrister seems to be saying the guardian didn't file much evidence about it because she too was concentrating on the issue of whether he is alive, and I think wants it to go back to the High Court, which unfortunately would result in more delay.
 
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acsunderland

Holy shit those poor children
 
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kittenattack

If they have so much faith in their god why don't they unplug and extubate him and allow 'god' to make the decision? Perhaps they can pray for a Lazurus situation.
 
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GalaxyGirl70

I don't understand what's happening now? Are they withdrawing to go through the paperwork submitted by the guardian again?
 
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bubbadabut

And so it drags on until the next hearing on 11th July for the judge to rule on Archie's best interests.
 
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GalaxyGirl70

omg that's appalling. Poor boy - he's clearly very medically unstable. What a horrific responsibility for his medical team
 
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Cack Conroe

I think what the family’s legal team are likely trying to do is just stall for as much time as possible, and hope that Archie passes anyway in the meantime. They must know they ultimately can’t win legally, but Archie passing on his own while still ventilated would be a “win” for them; this death would be acceptable to the religious beliefs of the CLC, and it would give emotional closure for Archie’s mum that he died when “God” chose it, and that he’d died anyway and there was nothing more they could do.

It would also prevent the mum having the harrowing experience of knowing that his death is looming when they’re about to remove treatment.

For the CLC, the case may be beneficial for their aims if they can set a different precedent of what counts as death.
 
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stevenseagull

Interesting they never told their army of low IQ supporters and grief tourists that he had a cardiac arrest a few weeks ago.
 
Reactions: 16

Cack Conroe

kittenattack said:
If they have so much faith in their god why don't they unplug and extubate him and allow 'god' to make the decision? Perhaps they can pray for a Lazurus situation.
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They’ve only become Christian after Archie’s hanging. It’s not their real beliefs, although many marginally religious people do suddenly find faith in times like these.

Their true “belief” is anything that delays the inevitable death of their child, because they can’t cope.
 
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Gossngiggles

11th of July feels like a really long time away. I am thankful that Archie seemingly isn’t able to feel pain or be suffering.

I was never a member of the army group but I have had a look and you can see that the number of members is fairly small,and hasn’t grown massively considering all the interviews his mum has been doing. It’s a pleasant surprise when you think that the Alfie Evans group had about half a million members.
 
Reactions: 6
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