The advice thread for random problems #4

[Popcornshovel]

Any thoughts on what I could/should do in this situation? So the last couple of years I worked with this monstrous person, nasty, lazy, sexist, intimidating bully etc etc. Many people complained but it was never formally addressed. Then a rather serious incident occurred and fact finding took place where I was asked to give statements. I asked to remain anonymous as I didn’t want to be the scapegoat for them finally taking action against this person (my complaint was as a witness) I was assured that with so many incidents and so much evidence against this person, no witness could be identified! Basically assured with “I promise it’s finally being dealt with we have lots of evidence” so insinuating they’d be dismissed. All went quiet for a couple of months, then an all staff email is sent, saying how the person has left to join another department where they’d always wanted to work, their hard work rewarded etc, they were sure we’d all be congratulating them on their success in their new role! Honestly I feel utterly sick about it. So being a sexist, bullying pig has resulted in them being moved to a great new team with a prestigious new role! No mention of the disciplinary investigation! So how do I handle this; accept they’ve done it to move this pig on so they’re someone else’s problem and forget about it? Or challenge the director, ask why the bully has been rewarded with a new role and why we’re being gaslit with that horrible email like we’re all idiots who haven’t been subjected to hell by this person, like none of it ever happened! I just feel like because I was one of very few who actually spoke out & gave evidence, if I pursue this with management it’ll look like a vendetta against the bully! But it’s all so wrong & unjust.

I think you'll have to make peace with it - this stuff happens all the time in the workplace. It's wrong and it sucks, but you can see why places deal with wrong uns like this (to avoid the hassle and potential legal issues of sacking someone). It's really shitty though to know that this person got 'managed out' and didn't face any real consequences.

On the bright side, at least this person is gone from your immediate area now. You did well in doing your part of giving evidence and telling the truth. You can't control how the organisation has dealt with it, but feel proud that you did the right thing over the bit that was within your control (giving evidence).

 

[Popcornshovel]

Spoiler: Spoiler : long

It's meant to be confidential whilst investigated but he has been telling people his version of events, which is that I've pursued him, pressured him for sex, I'm so clingy to him & he didn't send a video but if he did I wanted it. He's also claiming to know my address & my car.

I've sent HR numerous screenshots of him asking to meet me & me refusing, me blocking him on social media & him messaging me from new accounts, there's minutes from a meeting I had with management back in July where I was complaining he was being inappropriate towards me (asking for nudes & sending an unsolicited dick pic), people have come forward to tell HR of times he has made inappropriate sexual comments regarding me/my body.

HR have been honest & said they've not really dealt with a case like this before, which is why it is taking longer than expected. Its been 2 weeks today since I raised the issue. I've been called in for additional questioning 4 times, including quite personal questions like "you said you've not had a relationship with a work colleague, but we know you went on a date with [name of a different colleague] once. Do you see how that's a contradiction?" So I've had to explain that 1 date is not a relationship and it didn't go anywhere, plus the amount people gossiped about it put me off the idea of dating anyone from work. Asking me how I know it was [perpetrator]'s penis in the video if we haven't had sexual relations before (I don't know it is his dick, but it was a live video sent to me from his social media account) asking me if I frequently gossip in work etc. It has been really stressful and I can't talk to anyone about it at work or defend myself; because it is meant to be confidential. I know people are talking about me, nobody sat with me at the work Xmas do

It's always on my mind, I'm struggling to sleep, I'm so anxious going into office that sometimes I'm actually sick with nerves.

I just want it to be over.

I'm on annual leave now until new year but have asked they keep me up to date with everything anyway as don't want this hanging over my head over Xmas.

Please see this for what it is - HR are being crap because they want you to drop the case. They don't want it actually dealt with. They're asking you these questions to undermine you.

If it was me, I would be going off sick for stress to avoid the workplace and asking HR when they will be suspending/dismissing the man.

 

[didisaythatoutloudoops]

Hi again all, update here. Sorry if I forget to answer any questions

@Phil Anne Throw Pee - she's moving from non-profit into a company, so the salary increase is partly due to that and partly due to it being a promotion. In terms of the references, she had to complete quite a technical test as part of the interview process and they were pleased with it. She had been honest with HR about offering the extended notice period but that her boss might react quite negatively to her resignation, so they knew from the beginning she was leaving due to management. When she offered a reference they said they understand her current situation re: boss, so they won't ask for that and also know that you never give bad contacts for former references, so it isn't needed. They have a very firm induction plan and all seems green there I believe. Or at least I'm hoping so!

@dinosaursideways she retracted her offer to work an extended notice period after consulting her colleagues, telling them the situation, and them telling her to put herself first and tell boss to bugger off. Her new job are taking her three weeks earlier now.

Unfortunately the situation has soured in the meantime. Despite her boss still being on annual leave, he then emailed most of what he said to her over the phone - and CC'd in the entire board and all management. He has threatened to dismiss her for gross misconduct if she continues to 'complain'.

She then found out that her boss wrote an email to everyone in the organisation apart from her, saying that he's glad such a toxic person is leaving, that he knows everyone in the office hates her and feels she's a burden and if anyone feels their mental health has been ruined by her, they can come to him. Colleagues have scheduled a meeting with HR to complain about this and are devastated on her behalf, and have made it clear to her they don't feel that way at all.

She's just so young - I feel when you're old like me you know yourself and your work and can see these idiots for what they are, but this is really impacting not only her self-perception but now her anxiety levels. As a mum I just want to shield her from it.

 

[Thank(space)you]

Your employer has not protected you from this which they have to by law. By his talking about it, it’s further harassment. You have a clear cut case against them, especially with the minutes showing he’s already harassed you. What steps did they take then, anything? Keep a copy of everything you have in writing, anything verbal, note date and time. Speak to an employment lawyer.

They told me to speak to him and try to resolve it between ourselves in first instance.

 

[xbxbx]

More curious to know if this is allowed

The doctors I go too, if you phone for a appointment the receptionist wants to know what you are going in for an if you don't tell them then they will deny a face appointment an only allow for a phone appointment, does this happen to anyone else? Honestly getting tired of it because sometimes the receptionist is male an quite honestly am not comfortable telling anyone especially a male what I want to see my doctor for, the doctors aren't allowed to disclose what patients are in for so why all of a sudden is it fine for receptionists to be asking

I can answer this, I work in a hospital but our receptionists are trained the same way GP receptionists are.

They’re basically asking so that they can provide the GP with as much information as possible to allow you to get the most from your appointment and to reduce the risk of delays for both yourself and the rest of their clinic.

They need to be able to book the appropriate appointment length and type. Notes are added to appointments so that GPs have an idea of what you’re coming in for and they aren’t seeing you with no clue why you’re there. They are trying to identify potential red flags in your symptoms which is vital for the GP to know before anything else. The GP also needs to know; is it something you’ve been seen for before therefore they have previous medical notes they can refer back to in regards to your symptoms and treatment, is it a new issue but could be related to other health conditions you have, is it a previous issue but with new symptoms or is it a completely new issue but with no obvious cause etc.

Some appointments might need extra tests, blood work, nurse opinion, specialist opinion or even require you to be referred elsewhere which can be a lengthy process especially if it’s an emergency referral. If they have prior knowledge of you potentially needing a referral/extra tests they can book you a double appointment to allow extra time.

I think a standard appointment is around 10 minutes which is really no time at all when you take everything into consideration, especially if the GP doesn’t have any of the above information I’ve mentioned.

It also allows for better triaging and those that don’t actually need a GP but instead should be seeing a dentist, optometrist, pharmacy etc can be directed there without taking up a GP appointment.

You should never have to go into detail if you aren’t comfortable though and they should at least offer you the option of speaking to a female (if that’s what you prefer) or allow you to give vague reasoning before refusing a face to face.

 

[Phil Anne Throw Pee]

Thank you @littlepup and @Popcornshovel, I've passed on the message. I think you're both 100% right. Sadly he's the CEO of a relatively small company - so HR to him is just an annoying fly to swat.

Thankfully she's off to a role on triple her current salary and she impressed them so much at interview and with the practical tests that they want her ASAP, no need for references. I'm a proud mum!!

I don't want to piss on your chips and many congrats to her - but any company that is offering triple someone's current salary and is not requesting references is a MASSIVE red flag to me. Any company that recruits people properly includes references as a matter of course. Do they have an HR department? A firm induction plan? Check her employment contract with a fine toothcomb.

 

[avabella]

Ive just seen a rat in my garden do I need to do anything?

Burn your house down.

 

[littlepup]

Thank you. I tried to leave two years ago but with a mortgage, unable to afford rent etc it wasn't possible so we stayed together. He also told me over the years if I ever left he would make sure I never got to see my kids again so it's not worth losing my kids.
---

This is text book coersive control and it's a criminal offence. He cannot stop you from seeing your kids, he has just made you believe that to control you. You also don't need to afford rent, there is help available to help you leave an abusive situation. There are various charities and help lines that can give you advice. You don't need to waste any more of your only life with this man nor be in an abusive and unhappy relationship around your children. If this was your daughter in your situation, what would you do? You are never out of options, you just have to believe you are worth more, and if not yourself, your children. Please at least look at coersive control and understand how it applies to you.

 

[OnlyHereForTheLolz]

Any legal eagles or people in the know with employment based issues?

I have been working in a GP surgery since May 22
In September 2023 I accepted a place on a foundation degree course run by the local uni and college as an apprentice, my employer also signed and agreed too. They are a non levy paying employer so the course is funded by the government and I am registered as an apprentice with the government.

I have so far been on the course 7 months and coming in to the final few months of the first year ( its a 2 year course)
This week my line manager ( very poor management skills and stepping down as manager in April) approached me (chucked it at me) with a form titled " training agreement" and told me I had to sign it. I asked what it was, she told me if i leave the company within 2 years of completing my course (2027) I will need to pay them back the course fees.

I said, it isn't reasonable to expect me to sign this in retrospect as its now 7 months into the cource and had I been made aware of this 7 months ago I could have made an informed decision on weather I wanted to proceed on the cource under those terms and conditions.
She was very rude to me, as was her replacement - " so your using us to pay for your course and planning to leave", and " if you dobt sign they'll remove you from the course"

As mentioned this is a government funded apprenticeship course.

The form does not specify an actual sum, it just says xourse fees (£amount), then gives a sliding scale of
Leave with 6 months pay back 100%.
Leave 6-12 months pay back 75%
12-18 pay back 50%
18-24 pay back 25%

So they're expecting me to sign this 7 months after commencing the course. And without any indication of the sum of money I would be paying back in the event of me leaving the company.

I told her that I would need to seek the advise of my union representative (RCN) and potentially legal advise on the matter, and that id at least need more information on a figure and a breakdown of that figure.

I have checked my contract of employment, which makes no mention or clauses to training or training costs.

I have contacted my union and I have a phone meeting with the local rep to go over this, they told me it is my legal right to seek advise and representation of my union.

Ive since found on google so not confident it is correct but it says its actually illegal for company's to try to reclaim cource fees from a government funded apprentice.

Any advise greatly appreciated, as im worrying myself over this now.
I dont particularly want to stay with this company for two whole years after I complete my course as they are not particularly nice. I can with a fair amount of certainty say that once I finish my course they wont have any positions for the role I'll be just qualified in, and so ill have to continue working for them in the role I am in now with a foundation degree for minimum wage, or leave and potentially owe them an undisclosed sum of money.

Absolutely do not sign that. They can't force you too, especially as your contract doesn't mention anything about training costs. And you rightly pointed out you should've been told from the start.

 

[InkHeart]

Maybe more of a question than needing advice, but... Is it a thing that negative people don't want you anymore when you become happier?

I've done a lot of work on myself in the past few years. I was horrendously ill with depression for years, now I'm more or less ok. An old boyfriend has gotten in touch, after we've not spoken for 12 years. He was always perfectly nice to me when we were dating as teenagers, but when he's been messaging me the past week, I've just felt that he was such a downer. Every single message is about how he's getting old (we're 30!) and he doesn't like his career and he wants more money (he has a really impressive career). I'm just not here for it. If he was an old friend I'd been in contact with for years, then I would want to support him, but he's basically an almost-stranger who just turned up in my inbox to tell me how shit everything is.

Yesterday I was getting dental work done. He messaged me asking how I was, "because that doesn't exactly sound like a great day." I felt a bit defensive because I was having a good day and I didn't need someone to come in and enforce their idea that everything is going horribly. I just replied, "Well I feel better for having it done." Now he's not replied since yesterday, even though he's been texting me constantly for a week. I don't want to keep talking to him tbh, so I don't care, it just made me wonder: are there people who want to use you to wallow in misery together and then when they realise you haven't got that mindset, they reject you? I've been noticing in recent years how many people are negative - not necessarily the same as people in bad circumstances or who have mental illnesses, but lots of people just have nothing nice to say about anything.

 

[OnlyHereForTheLolz]

One of those awkward moments just came up.

I was picking my daughter (5) up from school and she came running to me with her friend in tow and said “Mummy Mummy can Toby come for a sleepover at the weekend?” The kids mum overheard and this mum adores palming her kids off and declared it was a great idea. I just said “Maybe, we might have plans.”

Problem is, I don’t like this kid. Whenever we have him over he’s rude to me, he laughs when I ask him not to do something, he doesn’t listen, he’s hit my daughter before, then if you have to actually tell him off he screams and cries and stamps his feet. In his parents eyes he can do no wrong.

I’ve tried to distance myself from his parents a bit but my daughter and him are still best friends. The mum is already texting me about this potential sleepover that I’m apparently hosting and I just… don’t want to. I don’t want to be rude and I don’t want to start a rift but I don’t want this kid in my house. I can put it off this weekend but I can’t put it off forever. How do I get out of this? The people pleaser in me is struggling.

Text her and just say you’ve got plans and can’t have him, then leave it at that.
Don’t give details and don’t offer any either.
Talk to your daughter about having friends for sleep overs and that she needs to ask privately at home first.
I would also check with her which other kids she likes to try and encourage those relationships.

 

[littlepup]

Honestly the thought of work right now makes me feel sick with anxiety. I've been checking my work email each night in case there's something from HR - nothing yet.

It really might be worth speaking to a doctor about some talking therapy or victim support help. With everything you’ve been going through now coupled with the serious incidents you mentioned some time ago on another thread, it’s an awful lot for a person to take. Even if you feel mentally strong, these things can creep up on you. I know there are charities and helplines for SA survivors. Don’t be afraid to reach out.

 

[Dogtanian]

Saw the hard drive in two with an angle grinder and then dump it in the Thames. It worked for News International when the Leveson Enquiry asked them to submit their data.

 

[Thank(space)you]

Just an update if anyone is interested, posted on the rant thread also.

HR told me today basically they don't know how to proceed with the issue I've raised with the explicit video I received from a colleague unsolicited.
I've finally broken down and logged with the police. I've also mentioned to the police how I feel let down by my employer and how I don't feel they are taking me seriously.

Do I have to tell HR I've spoken to the police?

I've spoken to ACAS too and they said from the employment side of things they can only advise me to raise a grievance with HR about how I feel they have dealt with it.

 

[cee-bee]

It sounds like perhaps he’s claiming it’s not unsolicited. While the HR action is horrendous for you and verging on victim blaming they need to have it tied up legally if he’s going to lose his job. While it’s horrible, he could sue them and go after you for false accusations if there’s any doubt. They just need to have it all in writing, from the horse’s mouth so to speak.
As distressing and unfair as it will be, it’s for the best. Stand your ground.
It’s exactly why so many people don’t bother to pursue these things and abuseres know that.

Depending on the size of your company and their insurance, they may be able to offer some formal help in terms of a talking therapy or similar.

while I partially agree with you, I wanted to flag a few things
- with sexual harassment and unsolicited videos like this, it’s not up to the perpetrator to decide if it’s unsolicited or not.
- if he did try to claim it was solicited, then it’s not up to an HR personnel to assess the veracity of this claim.
- a workplace/employer can be held liable for this behaviour if they haven’t taken steps to protect the victim. Which is probably why they are trying to dismiss and pressure the vicitim here. It’s easier if they pressure her to leave and say nothing.
- at best, he can maybe suggest she asked for a video, and that he has reasonable belief she asked for it. However there’s no real way for him to “go after” the OP. She received a video, has gone to work to complain. There’s no libel or slander there. If he can’t provide tangible evidence, then he doesn’t have a leg to stand on.

I think the mistake in your advice to the OP is the assumption they are looking out for her. I think it’s pretty clear based on what’s been said, that this isn’t the case.

I’d hazard a guess this isn’t the first instance he’s done this or similar, and they’ve ignored it. It’s probably why they aren’t advocating for police involvement, because if he’s had a complaint of this nature against him before, they can become legally liable for his behaviour in this case.

objectively, offenders rarely dive into this type of offending. There’s a video and it’s explicit and it’s strong evidence for a case against him. You have to ask yourself why he feels emboldened to send it and to not be scared of the consequences? Normally it’s because he’s never had to face consequences and is used to victims being silent and for others giving him a free pass.

it’s another reason why police involvement is crucial here: they can and should interview other women in the organisation to identify if this is a pattern of behaviour.

again, I’m so sorry this has happened to you OP. Like someone else has said, small wonder you’re irritable. You’re shouldering this alone and you’re being treated horribly. None of this is your fault.

 

[TwooTwooTwitTwitTwoo]

No I haven't.


I've had messages from people saying they feel I should be suspended because it's my word against his (they obviously don't know about all the evidence I have) I'm so upset

I'm going to recommend exactly what others have. He's committed a crime (possibly more than one) and you have evidence. Please, please report it to the Police. You can do that online via a live chat box (with an actual person though) initially, if that would feel easier than going into a station.

I also think you should give some thought to the level of stress you're actually feeling over Christmas, paying attention in particular to how you feel as your return to work date approaches. You may need to consider getting the GP to sign you off for a little while. Don't push yourself to put a brave face on it unnecessarily. This is a perfectly reasonable situation to need time off for. Your mental health is a priority.

 

[littlepup]

Not yet, it got put at the bottom of the mail pile, but I don't know if they will be using one of those fake websites with fake reviews about it, somtimes things online can seem legit when they are not

Of course but you can see if it's registered and what it's registered as, if anyone else has reported it, that's more what I meant. It's a very serious scam if it is one, Id report it to the police. There's no reason a flood defence company needs that kind of information. How much do you earn and how many hours are you home a day are a massive red flag!!

 

[GalaxyGirl70]

I know it's a hard step to take but I really would talk to Acas. They're usually as much help as a chocolate teapot but under circumstances like this, they know the law inside out and what your employer HAS to do legally to protect you in the workplace. They're breaking the law just as much as this pervert is. Hold onto that, start getting angry and get some proper advice and support. He has no right to make you feel like this. We're all right behind you.

 

[LaBlonde]

I just don't want to cause any issues between my friend and I because of his behaviour

what has your friend said about it?

honestly, i think there are some things where it’s impossible to avoid issues. this man basically forced you to intake drugs against your will. you can’t tiptoe around that to avoid upsetting your friend. he had no consideration for you or for your safety, as said above, anything could have happened.

 

[littlepup]

As others have said, I’d make him a cuppa and give him a cuddle first thing. Ask him if there’s anything he wants to do. It depends on his attitude.
I don’t particularly mark the occasion, the grief is there everyday, but it’s nice to know he’s not forgotten. We don’t have any kind of grave or memorial so there’s no ‘focal point’ for flowers or whatnot. I get a few texts with just a heart or ‘love you’ and that’s enough for me to say it’s not just another day.