Savanna Brockhill & Frankie Smith #4

LurkyMcShurky · Nov 17, 2021

mRsKbRoOkS said:
I get what you mean - and agree that it shows her as appalling - but mums get stressed and can pull their children out of frustration while they are refusing to walk ( dont agree with it - but it happens and can easily be down played ).
Biting again, it’s an old school parenting view if your child bites you should bite them back. I never would !! But not Lying when I say an elder in my family gave me that advice once when my daughter bit me .
The doctors again, there are times she has taken her and times she didn’t and she did seek advice from family members we heard. She could of stopped taking star to the doctors because of genuine worry about her being removed after SS involvement. It’s not right but she isn’t that smart is she.
I can’t see a way out of the dunking situation at all. I don’t think she is innocent not by a long shot, but I think her defence can talk it around but only if she doesn’t take the stand.
Which is why I don’t think she will. I hope am wrong though and she does and gets ripped apart. Just don’t see the logic in it at the moment.

I totally agree - I think they have both charges against them both as a back up in case the murder charge fails against FS. FS is more guilty of omission and failing to act when she knew her child was being abused. A jury may not want to put a murder conviction on her for that, UNLESS they consider the holding under the water was an intention to drown poor Star. I cant think of anything to defend that other than a mother letting her baby get face wet to stop them being scared of water maybe? I have a vague memory of baby swimming classes years ago saying that, but I wouldn't believe either of them if they gave that reason

Itchy of Itchington · Nov 17, 2021

It's absolutely not funny but christ SB is thick and cocky with it. How can you dispute words in this way.

Two of my relatives are barristers, not criminal but family and Chancery. It can be both entertaining to have a debate with them and also incredibly frustrating when they turn on the barrister mode.

GiggleBee · Nov 17, 2021

Shes just making herself look a complete idiot and incredibly guilty!

avabella · Nov 17, 2021

LurkyMcShurky said:
I totally agree - I think they have both charges against them both as a back up in case the murder charge fails against FS. FS is more guilty of omission and failing to act when she knew her child was being abused. A jury may not want to put a murder conviction on her for that, UNLESS they consider the holding under the water was an intention to drown poor Star. I cant think of anything to defend that other than a mother letting her baby get face wet to stop them being scared of water maybe? I have a vague memory of baby swimming classes years ago saying that, but I wouldn't believe either of them if they gave that reason

The baby swimming classes where you dunk them under water are at a very young age before there's some reflex that has been developed I'm sure? I did wonder if they meant the shower, holding her head under the shower even though she didn't like it. (To wash her hair?)

AdelesEarring · Nov 17, 2021

Before I saw any of this trial, I was of the opinion that FS and SB had colluded to abuse Star this way, but after hearing the prosecution’s case I changed my mind.

I think that SB is the main perpetrator . FS is a negligent parent but I don’t think she wanted her child to die. She had no idea how to parent Star and she was not a loving mother but I don’t believe she was able to predict the outcome of her toxic relationship with SB.

If FS was going to claim diminished responsibility wouldn’t she have done this at the time she entered her plea?

lookwhatthecatdraggedin1 · Nov 17, 2021

avabella said:
The baby swimming classes where you dunk them under water are at a very young age before there's some reflex that has been developed I'm sure? I did wonder if they meant the shower, holding her head under the shower even though she didn't like it. (To wash her hair?)

When my little boy started swimming lessons this was when he was around 14 months they dunk him under water to get him used to it, I could imagine that to be a excuse that could be used

nichew · Nov 17, 2021

LurkyMcShurky said:
I think as a narcissist with an anti-social personality type she is enjoying the verbal sparring with Mr Ali.

I agree with others - nothing about this hearing should make anyone smile but I do enjoy watching top barristers in action. These QC's are so brilliant because they can detach from the human suffering and focus on proving the facts that suit their client. KG is focussed on creating reasonable doubt SB intended to harm Star, ZA is focussed on that same reasonable doubt for FS but is also planting the seed for diminished responsibility and the Crown needs to show there is no doubt, to get a conviction.

They are so good at remembering little things and then bringing the same questions around in diffrent way. I can’t even remember what I said 5mins ago half the time.

lookwhatthecatdraggedin1 said:
When my little boy started swimming lessons this was when he was around 14 months they dunk him under water to get him used to it, I could imagine that to be a excuse that could be used

I should imagine that was done in a fun way with someone holding him. this Was done out of pure spite and wickedness

elikayute · Nov 17, 2021

Is there any objective proof of FS harming Star beyond the dunking and finger biting? I think the dragging on the reins - Yvonne was there and didn’t seem to care, which to me demonstrates the kind of role model that Yvonne is as a mother.
I’m open to changing my view after FS has been on the stand but at the moment, my view is she was caught up in an abusive relationship and that does affect your sense of what’s right. SB regularly caused her to doubt herself and discouraged FS from seeking medical help.
The fact that SB has stood on the stand today and boasted about knowing how to give the most powerful punch, when she’s on a murder trial for death by punching, that makes me want to throw up. It is so blindingly obvious.

AdelesEarring · Nov 17, 2021

FS’s barrister was fairly quiet during the expert questioning but SB’s seemed to be grasping at straws.

I have a way of remembering entire conversations from years ago but that’s because I’m autistic and I have a brilliant memory for words / text (probably a compensation for having no imagination)

Treesy19 · Nov 17, 2021

Prissypaws said:
ZA:
This is another example of you making things up that cannot be checked.

SB: It can be checked.

ZA: There's no record of it, we're taking your word for it, and your word isn't worth anything.

My favourite so far I think from Mister Ali. Also, I don’t care what Paul likes

AdelesEarring · Nov 17, 2021

elikayute said:
Is there any objective proof of FS harming Star beyond the dunking and finger biting? I think the dragging on the reins - Yvonne was there and didn’t seem to care, which to me demonstrates the kind of role model that Yvonne is as a mother.
I’m open to changing my view after FS has been on the stand but at the moment, my view is she was caught up in an abusive relationship and that does affect your sense of what’s right. SB regularly caused her to doubt herself and discouraged FS from seeking medical help.
The fact that SB has stood on the stand today and boasted about knowing how to give the most powerful punch, when she’s on a murder trial for death by punching, that makes me want to throw up. It is so blindingly obvious.

The dragging is horrible. But it’s something I’ve seen a lot from negligent parents. And it doesn’t make someone a killer. The prosecution hasn’t put forward any further information which would suggest physical violence towards Star from her mother.

I should imagine that SB managed to stir FS’s head up like a blender.

Treesy19 · Nov 17, 2021

Yorkshire-Granny said:
Oh, he must be mistaken, again!

Yes everyone is either mistaken or a liar…apart from Brockhill. All the bruises are probably shadows! Pathologists not using the right lighting no doubt! Policemen mishearing words.

Yorkshire-Granny · Nov 17, 2021

Interesting that KG didn't bring up any serious health issues for SB when she had chance, no mention of any medication that could cause anger issues, could that be one line of defence is shut down already?

fotw · Nov 17, 2021

Nice long lunch break they are having.. I wonder whats a miss?!

Kinney · Nov 17, 2021

Seem to be late coming back. Wonder if somethings up?

swipeupqueen · Nov 17, 2021

Came on to echo the above comments

Couldn't work out if it was my phone not updating the page properly or if it was an extended lunch break

Something certainly not quite right....

Treesy19 · Nov 17, 2021

Indeed a delay. We await further information of who else is mistaken.

Kinney · Nov 17, 2021

Maybe it’s a sudden “medical issue” and she couldn’t possibly come back out to face the music.

nichew · Nov 17, 2021

Wonder if summerts gone off

swipeupqueen · Nov 17, 2021

Treesy19 said:
Indeed a delay. We await further information of who else is mistaken.

Whilst this thread is not a laughing matter.... I chuckled at this, obviously everyone in the entire world is mistaken and SB is always correct!

Those highly trained professionals, all mistaken.

Savanna Brockhill & Frankie Smith #4

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