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moldwarp

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Misogyny is endemic in most cultures including the cultures from this country, it’s really a global issue. It’s not even a hate crime in the UK.
I do think it's fair though to say that some cultures are more deeply misogynistic than others. I understand why native Brits feel shy about saying that (not talking about you specifically lovely Hotes, just thinking about media discourse in general) and maybe I have more air cover as being visibly not ethnically British but yeah, places like Pakistan, loads of the Middle East, rural India and the Indian subcontinent, parts of Central Asia - women are just NOT valued the same, sometimes not even in law, definitely not in culture.

On Islam specifically, I fully understand why people want to tread carefully but a few years ago I read an essay by a theologian (can't recall who, Theo Hobson possibly, or possibly it was actually Dawkins) who made the brilliant point that Islam, unlike Christianity, has never been through a Reformation. The Christian Reformation had all sorts of long term beneficial consequences that echoed down the centuries, the most important one being the separation of church and state which meant that laws could be made from a humanist perspective and no longer with reference to what the Bible and the Pope said. This directly allowed western societies to make equality laws for women, gay people, abortion access etc.

Islam on the other hand has never (yet!) been through a Reformation and so, at its most conservative, culture (and in Islamic theocracies like Afghanistan, the actual law of the land) is made directly with reference to the Koran, just like the West used to do in the Middle Ages. This means that the cultural frameworks provide attitudes to women which were relevant for a very aggressive nomadic conquering tribal society, which is the societies where Islam started. So this is where you end up with laws like men can have multiple wives, cos that makes sense in the context of a tribal society (more women than men due to the early Islamic societies constantly invading, fighting and dying) and women being worth half of men in law.

I don't think we should be ashamed of examining this stuff and there are brilliant Muslims and former Muslims like the magnificent Ayaan Hirsi Ali who expound on this in great deal. I understand what people are doing when they pretend that all misogyny is the same and western democratic misogynists are just as misogynistic as the Taliban leaders, but it's just not true, I think everyone knows it's not true, and ultimately it stops us having the frank conversations that might save the next Sara Sharif.
 
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InTheDollsHouse

VIP Member
Whoever did what, all three are jointly responsible.

Whoever did the hitting, the biting, whoever bound her feet and forced her into a hood, whoever strangled her, it doesn’t matter now. It’s too late. They are all to blame. They all lived in that house.

Three whole life orders. It cannot be anything else. This was not ‘just’ abuse. This was deliberate torture.
 
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Padparadascha

VIP Member
I'm a kid who's parents were reported to SS many years ago. I won't go into details but it was life changing for us . the only reason I have a relationship with them nowis that they did genuinely change their behaviour.

That phone call was the best thing that happened to our family.
 
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Nah, religion and faith underpin some of the most heroic acts, humane reforms and beautiful works of art in the world. Abusive parents, and abusers in general - THEY are the absolute cancer.
As much as that is true, religion also underpins some of the most vile and inhumane crimes that have ever been committed too- and continue to happen.

I don't need some bloke in the sky to tell me what is right and what is wrong- no sane person does.
 
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moldwarp

VIP Member
Just been reading more about the injuries and fuck me. Those 'parents' and 'family members' are ANIMALS.
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The bite marks are all in places that would be covered by clothes and even more so by hijab. As she was 10 it maybe that although her dad knew she was being hit and punished by his wife some of the worst injuries were not seen by him.
Oh I have no doubt he saw them or was at least aware of them, firstly because you don't need to cover in front of your male relatives and secondly because of the nature of the injuries. Untreated full thickness burns will suppurate, become infected, leak and smell. Spinal fractures will result in walking difficulties or inability to walk. By the end she probably could not move at all with all the fractures listed. So yeah the fucker knew alright.

The fact Sara was known to the LA is really making me wonder how closely that removal for home education was checked.
I really hope this is not going to be a case like Victoria Climbie, where social workers were less assertive than they should have been because they were worried about offending cultural sensitivities. That beast Savannah Brockhill also successfully pulled this one by claiming that Star's grandparents' reports to SS were driven by anti-Traveller prejudice.

@catlady29 I'm so grateful you said that yes in my culture also it's not unusual for one girl to be picked out as basically the resident house servant. Also, not unusual for women to perpetrate the worst abuse. Not going into detail but I have a male cousin who married, he brought his wife to live in the same house as his parents as is quite common in my culture and his mum, the woman's MIL, was a MONSTER to her. Constant work, constant criticism, constant undermining and bullying. She eventually left but only after she had waste literal decades of her life.

I dissociated myself from my culture quite early on in life which led to some family issues, but I wanted to be an independent woman and I hate the misogyny that's still embedded in many aspects of my culture. I very consciously 'became# British and am so grateful for UK values, not sure that UK natives realise how fortunate they are tbh. I very strongly believe that abuse or shoddy treatment, especially of women and girls, should NEVER be ignored because people think 'oh, mustn't judge, that's just their culture'.
 
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moldwarp

VIP Member
I cannot believe that a human being exists in this world where her sister is texting her about her husband torturing a child and smashing the house up and her response is 'well just sit down and read the Quran'.

Da fuq?????
 
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More information here about this scum bag. He had a history of assaulting a 1 month old baby, and sadly burning children with irons an injury poor Sara also had. In another article it was stated that he started a “relationship” with a 15 year old polish girl he went on to abuse. It just gets worse.
More information about olga here to, stating that SS were worried she was extremely vulnerable as had possible learning difficulties and likely to be exploited. She had no chance against someone like him who just manipulated her into marriage and children so he could have a right to stay in the UK.
I think the worst thing is female Social Services have documented that they felt abused by him!!! But they then agreed to put innocent children back into his care. I do think this is one of those times that Social services really do hold a lot of blame here. There was so much evidence against him and signs Sara was terrified of him as a baby.
 
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On the iron burn - seems he will stoop low enough to blame his children, whilst claiming his brother had no idea.

View attachment 3269750


View attachment 3269752
It's not fucking possible that everything was separate from the brother. I live in a 3 bedroom house, I only have 2 kids. I know where they are and what they're doing in the house at all times. I know if they're fighting, I know if their Dad is telling them off and what for... I can hear one of them sneezing right now! You cannot be in a normal sized house and not know what is happening.
 
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I am impressed with the way the police in Pakistan have handled this. There is no official extradition treaty but the Pakistani authorities obviously didn’t want to be seen in the world’s eyes as harbouring these people so they’ve done what they can to force them back to the UK. That’s how I’ve interpreted it anyway. Any beatings they received are an added bonus as they won’t get that here.
 
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InTheDollsHouse

VIP Member
She had internal bleeding, bleeding around the brain, severe bruising across the top of her chest.

The pain she must have been in makes me feel sick.

They clearly put the nappy on her because she couldn’t move. Probably unconscious (hopefully, a small mercy).

Then they cleaned the house and left.

They left for a country with which the UK has no extradition treaty.

They left for a country where they thought they could hide. Where they hid their children and their family lied about it.

They removed the ring doorbell. That was a deliberate action.

He told police he’d left his house key under the doormat. He planned that. He planned to leave the key so they could gain access.

Upset or not and at his hand or not he did those things.
Calm or not and at her hand or not she did those things.

They should never see freedom again.
 
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InTheDollsHouse

VIP Member
Fractures in her fingers for 2 weeks before she died.
A neck fracture for 6-12 weeks.
Signs of starvation.
Signs of strangulation.

It just keeps getting worse.
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They tortured her. If they don’t get whole life orders something is very wrong.
 
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BB had sent messages and pictures of Sara’s injuries to at least two of her sisters over a long period of time. How the hell did they just sit by and ignore it? Honestly, people have called out the neighbours for their inaction but this is far, far worse. These women, who were no doubt mothers themselves, knew exactly what was happening to that little girl and did absolutely nothing. 😢

 
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Mollywobbles

VIP Member
No one thinks it is ok to beat a child with a pole.
No one watches her husband beat a child with a pole without taking action to stop it.
Bastards
 
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moldwarp

VIP Member
I try not to judge the neighbours who heard and did nothing because ultimately sometimes people are scared to, I was living in a very rough area in my youth and did hear and see some things that I would absolutely report now but didn't then because I didn't want dog shit or worse shoved thru my letterbox. Plus some communities are just very, very distrustful of authority anyway, does anyone remember earlier this year when the police tried to remove some children from a family after safeguarding concerns and all the neighbours basically started rioting so they put the children back. This was in Leeds I think. So yeah sometimes you do turn a blind eye but it's often out of fear rather than not caring if you see what I mean?

I also get a bit uncomfortable when blame is displaced, it's like I was following the threads here on poor Arthur Labinjo Hughes and at one point there was more hate being shown for the hairdresser than the actual killers, it's like yes I agree it's a shame we no longer live in a society where kids are raised by a village but arguably we never did, Hindleyand Brady for example rarely had problems picking kids off the street and no one tried seriously to stop them? Mary Bell was able to kill two toddlers and that was in a really close knit community. Loads of people saw Jamie Bulger being walked off by Thomson and Venables and he was in clear distress and they did nothing, this was in Liverpool which is famed for its community spirit. I think the 'good old days' of communities looking after children have probably been hugely exaggerated or never really existed.

I just think that people who are determined to abuse and torture their children are devious, they will find a way to hide what they are doing and dissuade anyone from interfering, blaming bystanders is a bit of a hiding to nothing emo.
 
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moldwarp

VIP Member
Apols for double posting but I was on the websleuths thread about this and they have a Polish contributor who was saying that this trial is getting enormous coverage in Poland, huge outrage (they are an incredibly pro-children pro-family society) and details about Olga's life with Sharif were published there that werent published here due to obvious reporting restrictions. I saw a posted saying that Sharif was horribly abusive to Olga and even wanted to set fire to her at one point, one of his cousins had to physically defend her. Total depravity, demonic.
 
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pinkypurr

Chatty Member
I am really sad for that little girl and i find the photo of her they keep using which she has a lot of makeup on very disturbing,

I saw some of the family video and found it ridiculous that they claimed to have no food for the kids and wont go out.
 
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moldwarp

VIP Member
I find it strange he won't admit the burning with an iron when he has documented previous history of doing the exact same thing to someone else. He seems to think he's one step ahead of all the evidence.
I must admit I started off thinking BB did most of the abuse so trying to get my head around everything. The level of abuse is sickening, whoever did it.
I think, like a lot of abusive bullies, he's never in his life really been challenged before because he only enters relationships in which people are scared of him. So he's used to being able to tell flagrant lies without consequence or manipulate the truth as he sees fit.

Being cross-examined by someone who is not only far, far more intelligent than him, but is also a WOMAN, and a woman who's clearly not scared of him, must be an entirely new experience, and not a very welcome one either.

Ha. Good. Cunt.
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I don't believe him when he says his parents weren't disciplinarian. I just don't think it's believable looking at the culture and the remote village that he comes from.
I believe him especially if he's the first born son cos in that type of culture the first born son is treated like a mini deity who can do no wrong and the girls basically trained to be his servants.
 
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Emsie

VIP Member
Removal from school should be an immediate red flag. I'm not talking about home schoolers but the removal of a child that has previously attended school should be.
Especially after a school reports potential abuse and then the child is withdrawn. It's not a coincidence.
 
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