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reCAPTCHA

VIP Member
Awful case - the poor mother being kept away from her kids while the dad abused them.

And the other kids who've gone with the dad and stepmum are at risk.
I’m not sure it’s entirely ‘poor mother’ though. Sara was removed from her Mothers care a year or two ago at the behest of the UK family court. That’s a pretty high threshold in my experience so I suspect - sadly- that for Sara it was a case of ‘out of the frying pan into the fire’.

Don‘t come at me, that’s just what I read in passing somewhere…..i might be wrong?
 
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MissTeddy

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Live reporting is indicating that her examination revealed that Sara had human bite marks on her inner thigh. Good god that is horrific. Clearly a sexual nature to this 'so called' legal punished. Poor girl. We must also remember she was only 10 years old - so young. The picture of her in make up that they keep using in the media makes her look like a teenager.
 
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catlady29

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@catlady29 I'm so grateful you said that yes in my culture also it's not unusual for one girl to be picked out as basically the resident house servant. Also, not unusual for women to perpetrate the worst abuse. Not going into detail but I have a male cousin who married, he brought his wife to live in the same house as his parents as is quite common in my culture and his mum, the woman's MIL, was a MONSTER to her. Constant work, constant criticism, constant undermining and bullying. She eventually left but only after she had waste literal decades of her life.
Its awful isn't it, don't want to take it off topic but I myself lived in a joint family for a few years and I swear it was the worst time of my life, EVERYTHING you do is scrutinised, how u eat, how often u go to loo, how many times u washed the dishes that day etc, soul destroying, all done and encouraged by the mother inlaw, evil witch, and there is such a culture of "respect elders" that NO ONE calls it out, everyone will complain amongst themselves, but the bitch will still be the first served and have her shoes taken from her feet for her upon entering the house. Mine has 4 sons and no daughters, all daughter inlaws so I'm sure u can imagine how much of a queen she thinks herself for bearing 4 boys. The sons won't hear a word against her despite knowing how bad she is, its awful to say but all us dils are literally just waiting for her to die, we think she's immortal, she's quite old but been so pampered she's in perfect health. If that stepmum was like that to Sara, I cannot even imagine her life, we found it so hard as adults, and that's without the physical abuse aspect, she must have also mentally tortured Sara, that poor girl 😔
 
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veevee04

VIP Member
I don’t know what the answer is, but there’s got to be more that SS can do, although of course needs more funding and more people. But to close a case for someone who isn’t engaging (I think in the twins fire case) is obviously not the way to do it.

But that’s why (in my opinion) it’s so important that everyone reports it if they have concerns, the more it’s on the radar, the more reasons services have for intervening.
What can you do? Many people do forward their concerns but get told to shut up because of "cultural sensitivities"
I reported someone to safeguarding he was telling people at work about the virtues of FGM and how women get too excited having a clit.
He had daughters!!!
I reported him but manager shut it down due to fear of offending or appearing racist.

There's no scientific basis for cutting someone's clitoris off it's barbaric there's a real inherent risk of having your career ruined and being made unemployed for simply saying your concerns.
There's no comeback from being accused of racism at work , promotion opportunities gone.
A real change needs to happen.
 
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I'm not a social worker but I deal with a lot of safeguarding issues in my job which involves Education Safeguarding and I also contribute to serious case reviews. The removing of Sara for Elective Home Education is a huge red flag and the school and the Council better be certain they have followed up on her being removed and that she was seen. The council I work for would not permit a child who is subject to a MASH referral never mind on child protection or subject to Section 47 investigation to be taken off the school roll. It's just too much risk. This case has haunted me so far as it's so close to what my colleagues and I are watching out for every day. That poor little girl and her poor brothers and sisters whose sister had been murdered and had their family life has been destroyed by their parents.

There was a former Councillor who made initial comments about what a hard working man Irfan was, which was a really odd thing to say when the case was so strange from the outset. I wonder how he feels now. The adults in this family have lied and lied and treated Sara as utterly disposable and worthless
 
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Tell.A.Tale

Chatty Member
I understand the outrage at the neighbours who stayed silent but to an extend I understand it. When I was 23, I will living alone in a flat in Cape Town where I shared an entrance with the neighbouring flat. In the neighbouring flat lived Nigerian pimps / drug dealers and a lady who I presume was their Madam. And they used to hurt her - often - and most of the time I was genuinely too scared to call the police. They would have known it was me since I was the only one who shared any walls with them (due to the layout of the flat). I also had nowhere else to move to and I remember being genuinely scared of them. They had those dead eyes, ones that pierce straight through you and yet have nothing behind them. I did eventually call the police - one day when the screams were such that you physically couldn't ignore them (I think they were burning her with hot oil). The police came, they left and I high tailed out that very evening never to return. No major point to this other than I understand how neighbours can be scared of retaliation.
 
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henriettadubois2

VIP Member
I’m sorry but cases like this make me wish we could torture child killers to death.
I thought it strange the mum was living 5 hours away and hadn’t seen her daughter for years.
Its pretty unusual for a 1st gen Pakistani to marry a westerner.
I am tying myself up in knots trying to word how the westernised child of a failed first marriage would be viewed as less than, without falling foul of sounding culturally insensitive or racist!

Poor darling child. You mattered and I hope justice is served and your so called father never sees freedom.
 
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Apart from being really truly horrible people Sharif and Batool seem to be grade A thickies but think they are smarter than other people. The same as Savannah Brockhill was. Sharif claiming Batoolf set Sara up with hiding shit...again a poster on here correctly speculated that this would be the case. Do I believe Urfan or Batoolf. No, I think they are both responsible. Whichever one was hurting her if it wasn't both, the other didn't care enough to keep that little girl safe. I can believe that the adults, Olga, Sharif and Batool were all awful to each other and that slapping and screaming etc was a regular occurrence. I've also seen the same thing where a man will goad a woman into hitting him or being verbally abusive and then film that and not the run up to it all.

What's Uncle Faisal going to claim? he was always working at Macdonald's and so never saw Sara so didn't notice that she was being tortured most days of the week. Maybe he's another thicky.

Who will be the first to lose their temper with the prosecution during cross examination?
 
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Lizzie Mintdrop

VIP Member
I cannot believe that a human being exists in this world where her sister is texting her about her husband torturing a child and smashing the house up and her response is 'well just sit down and read the Quran'.

Da fuq?????
I can't even say what I'd do to my sister if she text me saying her partner was doing that to his child whilst she sat and did nothing. I certainly wouldn't say study the bible
 
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Perspicacia Tick

Chatty Member
I honestly think that they'd seen people commit crimes and flee abroad to countries without extradition treaties with few consequences in the past and thought they'd get away with it.

I don’t think think they considered the fact that theirs isn't a political crime or something that's illegal in the UK but just grand in Pakistan. Or that even if the general population and authorities in Pakistan thought torturing and killing little children is fine (which they obviously don't) they're hardly likely to stand up on what is now essentially an international stage and say that they're happy to harbour child murderers fleeing justice abroad. It was never going to happen. Of course they'll send them back.

Idiots.
 
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Moosie

New member
I’m following this thread (and the trial) religiously - I’m so interested in everyone’s opinions and I obviously want justice to be served for poor little Sara. It honestly breaks my heart thinking about what she must have gone through.

The whole case and how it has unfolded has fascinated me. I’ve gone from thinking that it must have been some sort of accident (at the time - when the news first broke), to thinking that Urfan was responsible and was so abusive that Beinash was under his control, to now when I’m currently convinced that Beinash is responsible.

I think Urfan’s evidence over the last week or so has got me thinking about my own experiences in childhood. My parents were together but my mum was the main caregiver and my dad was always at work. By always I mean that he was out of the house before we woke up and home once we were asleep. He was out of the house for 12-13 hours a day, 6 days a week, for my entire childhood. Sunday was his only day off and he spent that playing golf. I don’t remember ever even eating dinner with him, let alone him bathing me or having any involvement in my day to day life. He wouldn’t have had a clue if I was covered in bruises, or wearing a nappy, or not going to school, or anything really. He would have just relied on what my mum told him about us.

This experience of my own has obviously led me to thinking that Urfan’s evidence is plausible. I’m not saying I believe it, but it’s definitely plausible to me.
 
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cosmicstar

VIP Member
Aaah karma is a beautiful thing. They thought they could escape UK law by fleeing to Pakistan and end up having to flee back to escape Pakistani law enforcement. Sometimes it's great to know that the justice system does work.
 
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catlady29

VIP Member
Taken from the Sara Sharif trial discussion fb page, its so awful.

This is the latest update of the continuing trial of those accused of the murder of ten-year-old Sara Sharif, in Horsell, Woking, in August 2023.

Court Hears Harrowing Evidence of Sara Sharif’s Injuries

Friday, October 25

At court today, statements from more neighbours of the Sharif family and Sara’s schoolteachers were read out. The court also heard statements from Dr Roland Kouble, a dental surgeon and forensic odontologist, and Mr Niall Martin, a consultant burns surgeon. No witnesses were called.

The first statement was from Brenin Lozeron, the husband of Judith Lozeron who gave evidence yesterday. The Lozerons lived next door to the Sharif family in Hammond Road.

In the statement, Mr Lozeron said he had little interaction with the children and always saw Sara in a hijab. He heard noise from the family in the garden, but “once they were in the house, we didn’t hear a thing”.

Evidence was also read out from Rebecca Daborn, the daughter of Brenin and Judith Lozeron. She described visiting 6 Hammond Road and their children playing together, but Sara wasn’t there. She said she found Beinash “easy to talk to, friendly, open”.

A statement was also read out from Fiona Mellon, whose rear garden is adjacent to the rear garden at 6 Hammond Road.

Ms Mellon described hearing a scream about five days before she spoke to police on August 11. It was around 4.30 or 5pm. She said she “just heard one scream for a couple of seconds that then stopped suddenly”, and that it sounded like a young female voice and different to Sara’s “screechy” sisters.

The neighbour said she it was so out of the ordinary that she wondered if she should call the police but didn’t hear anything further. For the next five or so days, Ms Mellon didn’t see the family at all.

Describing Sara as “spirited and outgoing” she said the last time she saw her was in July wearing her hijab.

Another statement was from Mia Carkett, Ms Mellon’s daughter, who said that Beinash would occasionally apologise to her mother if the children were being noisy. She noted that in the week before Sara’s body was found the family seemed quiet.

Evidence was also read out from Paul Kent, who lived two doors away in Hammond Road and often worked from home. He described the children as sometimes noisy in the garden but said that their mother came out to deal with them and never seemed cross.

He described seeing the light on in their house at 4am the week Sara’s body was found and noted that as odd. He never saw anything that “was out of the ordinary or caused concern”.

Evidence was also provided by Lorraine Townson, a schoolteacher at St Mary’s, who said she once noticed a bruise on her face.

In her statement, Hayley Holden, a teaching assistant at St Mary’s, described how she worked with Sara in year 4 and part of year 5 to help her with her spelling. She said she noticed a mark on Sara when class teacher Helen Simmons mentioned it. Ms Holden said she did not feel overly concerned by Sara, noting there were other pupils she was more concerned about in the class.

Evidence from the odontologist and burns surgeon

In a written statement Dr Roland Kouble, a dental surgeon and forensic odontologist said he had analysed four injuries to Sara’s left forearm, one to her left wrist and one to her inner leg/thigh, concluding they were all probable human bite marks.

Dr Kouble was provided dental impressions of Urfan Sharif, Faisal Malik and Sara’s older brother and excluded all three as being responsible. He also said it was not possible the bites had been self- inflicted.

Dr Kouble said it was difficult to age the bites but said the ones on the arm were older than the one on Sara’s inner leg.

Finally, the court heard a written statement from Niall Martin, consultant burns surgeon, who provided a report on the burn injuries seen on Sara’s body.

These included one burn on each buttock that Mr Martin concluded were likely to have been caused in the same incident. It described it as a single contact burn and that it was at least two weeks old.

His view was that it had been intentionally inflicted and made by a domestic iron posssibly and the iron found in the Sharif house.

Mr Martin also identified several burns on Sara’s feet, likely to have been caused by a scold injury, which were likely to have been exacerbated by Sara soiling herself when restrained. He also mentioned evidence of Sara being bound at the feet, which he said was also likely to have been deliberate.

Mr Martin said none of the burns had received proper medical attention.

He concluded that it was “highly likely that the deceased experienced daily pain and suffering prior
to the death”, including “physical discomfort and psychological suffering”, and that Sara would have “hobbled” and “grimaced” or “winced” if the injuries were touched. Mr Martin also said Sara’s suffering would have been obvious to those interacting with her regularly.
 
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I am reporting my comment above to mods to ask them to remove it, as someone on the Facebook group was very upset about it, and I have seen other people saying they don’t want to comment on there in case it gets shared. If the people who were upset see this I am sorry for sharing from a private group and will not do this again, I honestly just thought the poster had made some very good points that hadn’t occurred to me and wanted to discuss what was said on here, I didn’t mean any disrespect or to make anyone on here or fb feel uncomfortable. We all want the same thing, to understand what has happened and to see the horrible perpetrators of this crime punished to the maximum allowed.
 
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Duchesspink

VIP Member
With this level of abuse, the neighbours must have heard screaming, shouting and crying most every day.
That poor kid. Death would have been a welcome release for her from those vile bastards
 
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So he left her to go to Pakistan, but also left his children?!

View attachment 3256553
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Thank you @willowxxxx that link is great
Yeah. An absolute prince. He leaves his 2nd wife with 4 kids plus 2 step kids. He comes back because his son was ill, if the son needed hospital treatment then there was nobody with Parental Responsibility around to give permission for anything other than emergency treatment. And then he brings his brother over, to do a degree in Portsmouth in 2022 but by August 2023 Faisal is working at McD in Woking...aye mate that degree sounds totally legit just like your brother came to the UK to further his education and ended up working as a taxi driver after stealing almost £2k from McDonald's.
This is a family that think rules are for other people.

Social services absolutely fucked up here. I'm often the person who will defend social workers when other people are baying for blood but they've been involved in this little girls life at least twice for extended periods and had a referral and seemingly didn't act on it.

Off to read all that link now, lots more info than the mainstream news reporting
 
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Emsie

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Social services is as inadequate as the NHS. This is not the fault of the people on the ground, nurses, doctors and social workers do an amazing job... my own family is a social worker success.
But social services isn't beloved like the NHS is so no one gives a shit. We stand around clapping for the NHS whilst 100 year old men drag themselves round their gardens but social services gets none of this. It's bizarre to me.
 
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catlady29

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I'm feeling utterly sick after today, I truly thought that it was completely plausible that he could be working all hrs of the day and not actually seen how much Sara was being injured. I thought the note he left with her showed that he at least had some guilt but it was a plan from BB and not indicative of any remorse. I thought he maybe felt bad and that's why he called the police from Pakistan but its prob cos batools family knew and they'd probably eventually call the police.
This guy is a monster and I feel so so stupid for having given him the benefit of the doubt and that was mostly driven by batools refusal to give dental impressions. He seen her with black eyes and marks, he shook one other kid and that's only scratching the surface after reading of his past behaviour. Sara didn't stand a chance with these people. It's awful.
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She might have agreed though, we don’t know. Was it engagement or marriage? She was in Pakistan so unless he visited her at some stage, it wasn’t much of a marriage. Olga could have only been a legal marriage 🤷🏼‍♀️
Whatever the case with the marriages its all a horrible mess, cousins getting engaged and shit, completely fucked up and all just done to gain or to give passage into the UK. A total sham and this kind of stuff needs to be regulated more closely.
 
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owen2110

Chatty Member
View attachment 3221862

View attachment 3221864

The police have done so well identifying weapons that were used, to match injuries. This sort of evidence with fingerprints may be key.

I wonder if she was told to wear the nappy or if she put it on herself because she wasn’t allowed to the toilet.



This from BBC implicates the father.
View attachment 3221865
This fucks me off so bad. How can you receive messages from your sister stating their step-child is being severely abused and do nothing about it? I don’t care who you have loyalties to or who you’re related to when a poor child is being abused. Despicable
 
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