Real Life Crime and Murder #21

[LouBug19]

@LouBug19 I agree, it comes across very strongly that he had a psychotic break. Not that that makes it any easier for anyone.

It doesn't make it easier and I would be angry if someone I loved was murdered by someone who wasn't being treated properly. Thing is we have had such a shift from hospital treatment to community care and it's not working. Not saying we should lock everyone up but certain people who may harm themselves or others should be monitored better. I doubt anything would have been done if his family voiced concerns, let's be honest.

I struggle with the Nottingham attacker because he seemed to know exactly what he needed to do during the attacks to cause maximum carnage and that makes me lean towards him deserving prison but people on here have made very strong arguments for his hospital placement instead.

Cannot begin to understand the victims families devastation and grief, I feel so much for them.

I do agree with you, I think it's hard to imagine someone experiencing psychosis and doing a horrible amount of damage. We don't know what that voice was telling him at the time and I would hope one day he has remorse for his actions. At least in hospital he has to take his medication and harm is limited.

 

[Bread]

Na I'm sorry, they lost their innocent 12 yr old status when they started running round like road men carrying machetes. Play adult games win adult prizes, pieces of tit

Fortunately that isn't how justice works.

Thank you for the book recommendation! I'll try that too. A good one I read on the Bulger case was As If by Blake Morrison (among others). There's a very good one about children who kill throughout the ages called
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Today is the 1st anniversary of the Nottingham attacks. Doesn't feel its been a year already. I noticed Barnabys mum did an interview stating she received a letter from his family but she can't read it. I've attached some comments I saw on the metro. It's awful for everyone, I'm sure his family feel guilty for what happened and not intervening and the victims families want justice. Unfortunately I don't think or believe he should be in prison but in a hospital.

If she didn't read it, how can she say what's in it?

I can imagine his family asking desperately for help and getting nowhere. I feel for them too.

 

[ElektraWintour]

I had to go back to work when my baby was 7 months old so we chose a childminder as it felt more homely and better than a nursery room. I remember when we got a call and had to collect her early one day to take her to the hospital, turned out she’d slipped and got pulled elbow. It was an accident and my childminder wasn’t to blame at all but I was still sick with worry. I can’t imagine what this poor child’s family have been and are going through.

Childminder jailed for 12 years for killing baby boy https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c9007q7wq8xo

 

[repairshoplover]

Anne Sacoolas STILL shirks responsibility for killing Harry Dunn

The US government employee described herself as a 'safe driver' in comments made during a voluntary police interview following the death, which have now been revealed in court.

www.dailymail.co.uk

I always wonder how she can sleep at night. She was driving again very soon after the boy's death. I could never. In fact, I am so scared of the potential for hurting or killing someone I never took up driving in the first place, though I realise that is very extreme on my part. Still, she has only ever shown worry for avoiding jail and the UK than worry for what she did. I remember she tried offering money to make it all go away at one point.

Awful spoilt person.

I feel like she’s been protected when she killed someone. Initially it was an accident but her running back to America is not forgivable.

 

[Lalla]

It doesn't make it easier and I would be angry if someone I loved was murdered by someone who wasn't being treated properly. Thing is we have had such a shift from hospital treatment to community care and it's not working. Not saying we should lock everyone up but certain people who may harm themselves or others should be monitored better. I doubt anything would have been done if his family voiced concerns, let's be honest.

I do agree with you, I think it's hard to imagine someone experiencing psychosis and doing a horrible amount of damage. We don't know what that voice was telling him at the time and I would hope one day he has remorse for his actions. At least in hospital he has to take his medication and harm is limited.

I think unfortunately people do have to be locked up for the safety of others.

The man responsible for the Nottingham murders had all kinds of interventions, lots of involvement and engagement from the relevant services over a period of time and ultimately it did nothing to change the outcome. Once he stopped taking his medication (just as he had several times before) the public were put at risk. If you can't physically force people with severe issues, who are a danger to themselves and others, to take medication then what's the alternative to locking them away indefinitely?

 

[lilyannrose]

I feel like she’s been protected when she killed someone. Initially it was an accident but her running back to America is not forgivable.

America has behaved as though she is the victim from day one, it's revolting.

 

[CabalofBolorneaise]

I struggle with the Nottingham attacker because he seemed to know exactly what he needed to do during the attacks to cause maximum carnage and that makes me lean towards him deserving prison but people on here have made very strong arguments for his hospital placement instead.

Cannot begin to understand the victims families devastation and grief, I feel so much for them.

I feel like prison just wouldn’t achieve anything. Locking him up there would just likely mean his illness got worse and worse, and realistically there is far more chance he’d be released from prison while still in active psychosis than there is from the hospital. If he’s ever released from the hospital, it will be with him being stable and still with active MH monitoring in the community.

I get why the victims families are angry but if the roles were reversed they would want their loved one to be in hospital not prison, I’m absolutely sure. Making another man and potentially anyone jailed with him suffer more isn’t going to bring the victims back.

 

[PaddyDomino]

Emma Webber 'thought about dying' and reflects on year of hell after attacks

Emma spoke of the 'dark' moments with her own mental health and anger at the justice system a year on from the devastating Nottingham attacks

www.nottinghampost.com

Interview with Barnaby Webber's mother. She talks about the letter that the Calocane family have written, she says that Ian Coates' son and the Kumars have read it, and the Calocanes blame the authorities and don't take any responsibility.

 

[CabalofBolorneaise]

Emma Webber 'thought about dying' and reflects on year of hell after attacks

Emma spoke of the 'dark' moments with her own mental health and anger at the justice system a year on from the devastating Nottingham attacks

www.nottinghampost.com

Interview with Barnaby Webber's mother. She talks about the letter that the Calocane family have written, she says that Ian Coates' son and the Kumars have read it, and the Calocanes blame the authorities and don't take any responsibility.

They don’t need to take responsibility for it. They didn’t do it.

She’s angry at the wrong people - even blaming them for having moved to the UK.

Her anger would be far better focused on campaigning to improve MH services and getting them to take appeals for help from people’s families more seriously.

 

[Boogs]

I really do feel for the families but staying in the anger phase of grief and focusing it in the wrong place will be so damaging to them long term.

I saw this first hand with my Nan. She lost her son in road traffic accident and placed all her hurt into anger at the person who hit him. I can’t imagine how hard it is to lose your child but my nans grief was as raw 50 years later as she had never processed it, her anger held her back.

 

[LouBug19]

They don’t need to take responsibility for it. They didn’t do it.

She’s angry at the wrong people - even blaming them for having moved to the UK.

Her anger would be far better focused on campaigning to improve MH services and getting them to take appeals for help from people’s families more seriously.

I watched the news earlier and they were speaking to his Dad and he kept referring to him as a monster and he would never forgive him or his family. I'm sure the family won't forgive themselves but I don't like the whole "they moved here" that's not fair. I know they are angry and they should be, but be angry at the government for lack of funding.

 

[lilyannrose]

I think the likes of the Daily Mail are shamelessly enabling Emma Webber, it would be so much better for her if she didn't have that going on. They'll be like a puppet pulling her strings, really awful.

 

[Tangent Tiger]

@Boogs that's the same with my mother. It blighted all our lives.

 

[Boogs]

@Boogs that's the same with my mother. It blighted all our lives.

I feel nothing but sympathy for my poor Nan but the knock on effect to the rest of the family was massive and long term. I think I’m the only family member who is able to look at what happened as an awful accident and feel a sense of compassion for a man who had to then live knowing he’d hit and killed a kid.

 

[CabalofBolorneaise]

I watched the news earlier and they were speaking to his Dad and he kept referring to him as a monster and he would never forgive him or his family. I'm sure the family won't forgive themselves but I don't like the whole "they moved here" that's not fair. I know they are angry and they should be, but be angry at the government for lack of funding.

The bit about them moving to the UK honestly makes her just sound massively racist. Grieving or not, that’s not in any way an acceptable thing to say.

They had every right to move here and his mental illness wasn’t caused by them moving here. Even if it had been a stone cold killing, which it wasn’t, it had duck all to do with him moving here as a teenager.

 

[wibble]

I feel like she’s been protected when she killed someone. Initially it was an accident but her running back to America is not forgivable.

Isn't she CIA?
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Hmmm???

Woman, 57, arrested on suspicion of murder over death of baby in 1982

A woman has been arrested on suspicion of murder over the death of a newborn baby girl who was found more than 40 years ago.

www.dailymail.co.uk

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The Nibbler is found...

Man who nibbled on boy's ear in viral snooker video is identified

EXCLUSIVE: A man who was caught on camera nibbling a child's ear at the World Snooker championships was an Italian holidaymaker who has defended the incident, MailOnline can reveal.

www.dailymail.co.uk

 

[thegirlscout]

Anne Sacoolas STILL shirks responsibility for killing Harry Dunn

The US government employee described herself as a 'safe driver' in comments made during a voluntary police interview following the death, which have now been revealed in court.

www.dailymail.co.uk

I always wonder how she can sleep at night. She was driving again very soon after the boy's death. I could never. In fact, I am so scared of the potential for hurting or killing someone I never took up driving in the first place, though I realise that is very extreme on my part. Still, she has only ever shown worry for avoiding jail and the UK than worry for what she did. I remember she tried offering money to make it all go away at one point.

Awful spoilt person.

Harry’s mother even said at the beginning she didn’t want Anna to go to prison because she was a mother herself. She just wanted her to take responsibility for the crime.
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The bit about them moving to the UK honestly makes her just sound massively racist. Grieving or not, that’s not in any way an acceptable thing to say.

They had every right to move here and his mental illness wasn’t caused by them moving here. Even if it had been a stone cold killing, which it wasn’t, it had duck all to do with him moving here as a teenager.

I suppose if the family hadn’t moved here then the man wouldn’t have been able to murder 3 people and run over others - I guess in her mind it’s a way of making sense of it all. Her son was brutally and viciously murdered only a year ago, I think some people are expecting a lot from the families when their journey of grief has only really started.

 

[Bread]

I feel nothing but sympathy for my poor Nan but the knock on effect to the rest of the family was massive and long term. I think I’m the only family member who is able to look at what happened as an awful accident and feel a sense of compassion for a man who had to then live knowing he’d hit and killed a kid.

I'm glad you can do that - for your sake, as it's free ing. Hating is exhausting and poisonous. It doesn't help anyone. Having compassion for that driver frees you and makes your loss easier to bear. Thank you for being that person.
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I think the likes of the Daily Mail are shamelessly enabling Emma Webber, it would be so much better for her if she didn't have that going on. They'll be like a puppet pulling her strings, really awful.

I agree. It's shades of Denise Bulger (now Fergus) who has never, ever, ever been allowed to have any sort of peace or any sort of reconciliation with the murder of her little boy. I hope to God this doesn't happen with this family.
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Fortunately that isn't how justice works.

Thank you for the book recommendation! I'll try that too. A good one I read on the Bulger case was As If by Blake Morrison (among others). There's a very good one about children who kill throughout the ages called
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If she didn't read it, how can she say what's in it?

I can imagine his family asking desperately for help and getting nowhere. I feel for them too.

QMLAN because I never actually finished that post! The book I recommended was The Devil's Children by Loretta Loach, a history of children who kill and how they've been treated. Another good one about the Bulger case is The Sleep of Reason by David Smith. Cries Unheard by Gita Sereny, about the Mary Bell case, is another very good one.

I don't mean to sound sanctimonious when I talk about this stuff. I'm sorry if I come across thus. I felt, very strongly, similarly to some of the posters on this thread at the time of and subsequent to the killing of poor little James. Hence I did a lot of reading as I like to understand the opposite perspective and where it comes from. I can honestly say that like I said in my other post, condemning a little less, and understanding a little more (unlike John Major, who generally I think gets it right, but I think got it wrong on that occasion) is not only best for society but can do something to alleviate the suffering of the victim's family. Because hatred and condemnation never grow old. They fester and can destroy.

I appreciate it's easier said than done; but I feel, with young children, we need to give it a shot for all our sakes.

 

[lilyannrose]

Harry’s mother even said at the beginning she didn’t want Anna to go to prison because she was a mother herself. She just wanted her to take responsibility for the crime.
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Have followed the case quite closely and missed that but I am impressed by her compassion. I could not have that level of it if someone killed my child and then did everything to avoid facing justice properly.

 

[thegirlscout]

Have followed the case quite closely and missed that but I am impressed by her compassion. I could not have that level of it if someone killed my child and then did everything to avoid facing justice properly.

She said it in an interview with BBC before Anna S was sentenced so it was awhile back.