I said this, what 1 year old can do basically a pull-up to raise his own neck up to the top of the cot so his feet are floating in the air, not stood on the mattress. He‘s so clumsy and falls and twizzled his arm but is hench enough to do that in his sleep, I think not.
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The attempted cover-up is the thing I find the most bizarre because it was always going to be a lie but they made it such an obvious lie. Like you're telling me they spent potentially over half an hour on the phone, likely coming up with a cover-up story, then spent another several minutes in the house before going to hospital... But they didn't make any attempt to make the cover-up believable in that time? Didn't set up the bathroom, didn't wet him in any way? Didn't even quickly hide the sex toys? They just... didn't think there'd be any questions or suspicion that the baby you supposedly just pulled out from under the water was bone dry and not naked?No water in the bath. No wet towels. Baby not wet and with a dry nappy on. Obv drowningJV would have been smarter to say Preston had had a massive "seizure" and died as a result of that. But then it would have been investigated and all the evidence we've seen would have come out anyway. It's all such nonsense. Would be laughable if it wasn't such a real, horrific tragedy.
Initially I thought it must be that JV really didn't expect Preston would actually die so they didn't expect the lie would need to hold water (quite literally) because they didn't anticipate that there'd be a post-mortum and they wouldn't be allowed back in the house afterwards or would have their phones searched. Or maybe that they panicked for a story when they realised he needed medical attention because he seriously wasn't recovering.
But then from what the evidence indicates, Preston had almost certainly already passed (or was on the very brink) before they finally went to the hospital and they knew that this was major for a solid chunk of time before they took him to the hospital.
So the question is, what were they doing in all that time if they clearly weren't using it to cover their tracks?
The pod doesn’t seem to refer to the 36 minute call at all, I think it’s an error and it was a quick call.
in the pod JV said Preston started being sick, at first just milky but then it changed as was like “bolognese” so I wonder whether he did take a sudden turn downhill (after “recovering” from his breathing distress). Maybe caused by the perforation to his bowel.
in the pod JV said Preston started being sick, at first just milky but then it changed as was like “bolognese” so I wonder whether he did take a sudden turn downhill (after “recovering” from his breathing distress). Maybe caused by the perforation to his bowel.
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When we read the little details that aren’t widely reported it really hits home. The way you’ve worded it here just seals the deal on JMF for me. No way would he recall that and not share some sense of fear or horror, nobody would shrug that off and go back to basting their stupid chicken dinner. It would be plainly obvious why Preston was there, in that position. The forensics on it, taken in context, indicate JMF was directly involved as well. Even if you thought forensics could be reasonably doubted the judge has made it plain that encouraging or assisting in such an offence means he is as guilty as if he did it himself. I know the judge is neutral and explains the law but here he’s reminded the jury they are allowed to use their own judgement and find him guilty. It also confirms the causing or allowing charge for me because you would not let something like that slide and continue to leave the baby alone with JV. Whatever else went on he’s plainly endangered that little boy’s life for his own amusement- JMF knew it and did nothing.Haven’t read that part about the soft toy before. I find this particular event really hard to work out and now it’s that he’s being propped up by a soft toy. You just picture your own babies don’t you I can see mine standing in their cots using the cot bars for support after nap time happy to see me when I went in to get them. I can’t comprehend walking in to an unconscious bub turning blue and it being a big laugh and “oh what is he like!?” situation. Truth is they were thrilled to see him like that because it’s what they’d done to him in the first place. I guess that kind of answers how he was fixed in place though
Absolutely - there's no way in hell he could have got himself into that position - and if he had it wouldn't have been a cute "Ooooh! What's he like the silly little sossidge" moment. It would have been "Bliddy hell - he'll choke himself! " and getting him moved to a safe position as quickly as possible.
These two POS - I won't call them men; I won't even call them animals - deserve to go down for the rest of their foul lives. They're a waste of oxygen.
I think you are correct here. I’m speculating but I think probably JV left Preston in a state and only went to check on him when JMF was almost home. Like a used toy, no concern or compassion, then he’s gone to “tidy up before daddy gets home”
and discovered Preston moribund. The 7 minutes before they left was probably a quick argument over whether to call for help or just go. They’ve quickly cobbled together the drowning and because Preston actually died it’s been investigated thoroughly whereas before he’s recovered and they’ve just been able to talk their way out of things and get on with it. So they didn’t think they needed to “set the scene” for a drowning because they didn’t summon emergency services to the scene. JV saying “I need your help” to JMF fits with this, he didn’t know what to do because he didn’t expect to find that. Also the “It’s my fault I left him” comments at hospital would ring true in this context.I think you're right.I think you are correct here. I’m speculating but I think probably JV left Preston in a state and only went to check on him when JMF was almost home. Like a used toy, no concern or compassion, then he’s gone to “tidy up before daddy gets home”
JV used Preston, left him dumped like a piece of rubbish, expecting him to recover, had a long phone call with JMF and then only discovered at the last minute that that poor baby was dead. And then they both panicked.
I think this could potentially be it. But my question is about all the apparent vomit. Did we ever get clarity on if the police confirmed that the whole bedroom was covered in vomit? They said that the bath seat was in the sink and toys were stacked on side, I never heard mention about the vomit
I don’t think they thought for a minute JMF would be arrested too, plus he was trying to show the policewoman in the hospital the camera showing what time he got home. Probably decided he would do a clear up on the chance JV was taken to the police station to answer some questions.
It’s interesting that Preston vomited as soon as JV got to his mums to pick him up and JV took him home covered in sick rather than change his clothes quickly at his Mum’s. Perhaps he did a lot to keep some of the more obvious injuries from her. His bottom may have recovered enough to look like a more average “sore bum” presentation and less startling by the time he took him round after the cot incident.
He was also always playing the worried new Dad around family members which served two purposes- made him look like a doting father and began to form a picture of a frequently poorly “difficult” baby that suffered from seizures, chest infections, his life threatening squint
Can probably add a third motivation too - lots of poor Jamie attention and drama.
A big dose of speculation and arm chair psychology here but I also think that seeking their help and advice (sleep trainer sister too) it massages the ego a little bit. Oh look they need me again, I can help, they’re so inexperienced.. I think that means you don’t lead with suspicion and intrigue.
He was also always playing the worried new Dad around family members which served two purposes- made him look like a doting father and began to form a picture of a frequently poorly “difficult” baby that suffered from seizures, chest infections, his life threatening squint
Can probably add a third motivation too - lots of poor Jamie attention and drama.
A big dose of speculation and arm chair psychology here but I also think that seeking their help and advice (sleep trainer sister too) it massages the ego a little bit. Oh look they need me again, I can help, they’re so inexperienced.. I think that means you don’t lead with suspicion and intrigue.
Thanks. I was curious had that ever happened so i looked it up and apparently it has, but its likely an American thing. I'm trying to think will anyone come out and talk afterwards. I also saw another comment on Facebook from a woman who said she grew up up the street from JVs family and used to be in and out of their house, and that she was sad he "turned out like this". I think we will have a good few people doing interviews after it because there's already people commenting. I feel like JMF is so much more shrouded in secrecy though; we've heard so little about him
Quite honestly, if I was a member of this jury the only person I'd want to talk to about it would be a therapist. This will haunt them. They will probably never want to think, speak or hear of it again - but it will always be in their minds. Poor souls.
Do we think Preston vomited through fear/anxiety when he saw JV? Or was it the reflux?It’s interesting that Preston vomited as soon as JV got to his mums to pick him up and JV took him home covered in sick rather than change his clothes quickly at his Mum’s. Perhaps he did a lot to keep some of the more obvious injuries from her. His bottom may have recovered enough to look like a more average “sore bum” presentation and less startling by the time he took him round after the cot incident.
He was also always playing the worried new Dad around family members which served two purposes- made him look like a doting father and began to form a picture of a frequently poorly “difficult” baby that suffered from seizures, chest infections, his life threatening squint
Can probably add a third motivation too - lots of poor Jamie attention and drama.
A big dose of speculation and arm chair psychology here but I also think that seeking their help and advice (sleep trainer sister too) it massages the ego a little bit. Oh look they need me again, I can help, they’re so inexperienced.. I think that means you don’t lead with suspicion and intrigue.
So true. This case takes over my mind most of the day and I've only seen a fraction of what they have. Surely they get the counselling provided afterwards do they? Imagine having to sit there looking at them and try hold yourself back from going for them. I'd say the whole court room is seething every second of the day!
When I was a juror on a murder trial a few years ago all you got was a leaflet signposting you to organisations you could approach if you felt you needed counselling.
It has been said that Preston would always look to JV. Rather than evidence of their bond I think it was probably Preston watching and waiting for what was coming next
Ive always thought that bit to be true - poor Preston vomiting as soon as he sees JV after having a little bit of sanctuary with JV's Mum.It’s interesting that Preston vomited as soon as JV got to his mums to pick him up and JV took him home covered in sick rather than change his clothes quickly at his Mum’s. Perhaps he did a lot to keep some of the more obvious injuries from her. His bottom may have recovered enough to look like a more average “sore bum” presentation and less startling by the time he took him round after the cot incident.
He was also always playing the worried new Dad around family members which served two purposes- made him look like a doting father and began to form a picture of a frequently poorly “difficult” baby that suffered from seizures, chest infections, his life threatening squint
Can probably add a third motivation too - lots of poor Jamie attention and drama.
A big dose of speculation and arm chair psychology here but I also think that seeking their help and advice (sleep trainer sister too) it massages the ego a little bit. Oh look they need me again, I can help, they’re so inexperienced.. I think that means you don’t lead with suspicion and intrigue.
There is no way you wouldn't change him whilst at your Mum's house, especially if a so called clean freak. It'd take two mins to clean him up and change him. He absolutely must have been trying to hide bruises etc. Probably disguised it by using the overprotective/ worried new parent act.
Sadly - I think you are right.When I was a juror on a murder trial a few years ago all you got was a leaflet signposting you to organisations you could approach if you felt you needed counselling.
It has been said that Preston would always look to JV. Rather than evidence of their bond I think it was probably Preston watching and waiting for what was coming next
He had no-one he could turn to for comfort, but he definitely knew where the greatest danger came from.
Agree.
Even if you didn't have a change of clothes with you (unlikely - Preston was a "sicky" baby and most parents/ grandparents would make sure there were extra clothes) it would take only a moment to wrap him in a towel, or one of JV's sister's kids tee-shirts before popping him into his car safety seat to run him home.
It’s an extra detail I could’ve lived without knowing. I hate them.Haven’t read that part about the soft toy before. I find this particular event really hard to work out and now it’s that he’s being propped up by a soft toy. You just picture your own babies don’t you I can see mine standing in their cots using the cot bars for support after nap time happy to see me when I went in to get them. I can’t comprehend walking in to an unconscious bub turning blue and it being a big laugh and “oh what is he like!?” situation. Truth is they were thrilled to see him like that because it’s what they’d done to him in the first place. I guess that kind of answers how he was fixed in place though
He was assaulted twice that afternoon wasn’t he - did they say the 2nd time was after that horrible breathing video? I feel like I read that before in the prosecution opening statement, but so many articles on MEN I can’t find that part of the trial now.
The timeline around it confuses me, I do think the uncontrollable vomiting was due to the perforated bowel, did Preston recover enough from that breathing video at 16:45 where then he was than assaulted again in his own bedroom which set the vomiting off & then his death.
Maybe the 36 min call wasn’t wrong and Preston was assaulted for the 2nd time during it with JMF listening in & then rapidly deteriorated not long before he got home, which is why they only managed to concot a tit story & couldn’t sort the scene out properly with the bath.
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