Nurses striking

[JoeBloggs]

I agree with you in the changes that need to happen but unfortunately nurses have been asking for these things for years and are not being listened to. Same as doctors. Whereas getting an objective pay rise is much easier to achieve.
The Scottish offer was an average rise of 7.5% , with it being 11% for the lowest paid depending on uplifts for different bands. Ultimately all NHS workers have experienced real terms pay cuts for the last 10 years and 7.5% average is sub inflation and another effective pay cut. They need to link public sector pay to RPI.

The thing is, to the public they are also experiencing a real terms pay cut and there sympathy is running out for these workers (mainly train/post). This is not an industry specific issue, this is a wider issue. As Yel has said, rent/housing cost, nursery costs, social cost etc are the issue that they could address to help everyone.

And I also think a big mistake was the uni/bursary issue. No nurse working in the NHS should be billed to get there.

 

[struggs123]

Nurse interviewed on the radio this morning was saying her rent was £1600 and she took home £2200.

Where governments have really failed over the last few decades is to stop house prices and rents from going out of control. They're now at criminal levels. And there's no reason for them to be this high! Speculation and greed is causing untold missery.

So many problems trace back to housing.

Yes I agree, definitely a myriad of wider issues contributing to everything. I lived in a houseshare when I first qualified in London, this was many years ago so I imagine it's wildly more expensive now, but my mortgage now for a 3 bed semi detached in the south west is the less than rent was then. Yes its London but London hospitals need staff I don't know how people afford it unless they live with family or have a higher earning spouse.

 

[gigilouxx]

The thing is, to the public they are also experiencing a real terms pay cut and there sympathy is running out for these workers (mainly train/post). This is not an industry specific issue, this is a wider issue. As Yel has said, rent/housing cost, nursery costs, social cost etc are the issue that they could address to help everyone.

And I also think a big mistake was the uni/bursary issue. No nurse working in the NHS should be billed to get there.

I think sympathy is running out more because people unfortunately do have to live on a lot less than the workers striking. Same as the notion that nurses are relying on food banks, plenty of people on less aren’t relying on them. The wider issues need looking at, private rents are absolutely sickening at the minute, ex council houses still on council estates going for £700/£800 a month whereas the house next door is half of that, there’s no logic in it

 

[JoeBloggs]

I think sympathy is running out more because people unfortunately do have to live on a lot less than the workers striking. Same as the notion that nurses are relying on food banks, plenty of people on less aren’t relying on them. The wider issues need looking at, private rents are absolutely sickening at the minute, ex council houses still on council estates going for £700/£800 a month whereas the house next door is half of that, there’s no logic in it

Exactly, that nurse quoted further up who said she brings home £2,200. So that is £33,000 a year. That is a good wage, my husband is a manager in retail and that's his wage. We also live in Surrey and a 2 bed to rent in our area isn't as much as she has quoted at £1,600. Something just doesn't add up imo.

That leaves her with £800 a month, for so many thats a lot. I get that bills are higher than ever but this isn't something that is just effecting nurses, it is effecting us all no matter our income.

 

[Sunflower91]

Someone on a work call joked the other day about everyone just going on strike. And even though it was a joke it’s not completely ridiculous to think that things are heading to at least a mass protest of some kind. The reality is that there’s a lot of people not able to survive on their wages, it’ll hard for some to be sympathetic when they don’t have the option to strike because some industries aren’t unionised or because they are at a breaking point with their own situation.

As an example, my old company in London would pay graduates £22-£28k, we all know rent in London can be nuts (I lived in a small 2 bed flat with a friend and rent for me was £800pcm +£200 in bills, not including groceries or travel- and I was paying a lot less than most of my colleagues). I honestly don’t know how the graduates could afford it - especially now with bills increasing left right and centre.
I’ve since moved to the north and noticed the rental market there is either scarce or also getting expensive.

With the NHS, I don’t think it’s helped that it’s seen as a service you pay your taxes for. I think it’s been a storm brewing for years, you pay taxes and can’t get a drs appt, the wait lists are huge etc. you think you’re contributing to keeping things afloat and that access will be there when you need it and the reality is that it’s like the money disappears via the government and you have a battle to get something out of it. It’s easy to forget that human beings who have no say in where the money goes, and are in the same boat, are bearing some of the brunt and frustration of this. I don’t think the government care if nurses go to agency work and get paid more for it and that it accelerates the shift to privatisation.

 

[gigilouxx]

I’ve seen a lot on Twitter about it as well, and a lot of people seem to be of the opinion that if someone on a salary of £2200 a month is relying on a food bank then they’re living above their means.

I can’t comment on that as I dunno what peoples outgoings are and that’s none of my business anyway, but it’s a complete domino affect, rent is extortionate, bills are extortionate, childcare is extortionate. Everything’s going up by the second it seems and I think the gov have dropped a massive one in allowing private landlords to skyrocket their rents to cover their own mortgages, HMO’s round here now are over £500, there should be a rent cap, working families should get more help toward childcare, the whole living crisis in the UK has been slowly happening for years and like the NHS, it’s a complete mess that has just been left to get worse

 

[Yel]

You hear talk a lot about people need to be "paid fairly" which of course everyone does.

But it's so hard to actually quantify what is fair pay as the amount each individual needs for a good standard of living can vary so much.

A nurse that bought a house a while ago so has a mortgage of £200 a month (with much of the house already paid for) and who had funding for training could have a very good lifestyle with a take home pay of £2200 a month.

Someone paying £1600 rent a month, 90k debt to pay off and taking home £2200 is in a very different situation. Council tax £150, energy £200, water £50 and that's just £200 for everything else. It's not hard to imagine with so little buffer that some face hardship.

Where I am £1600 gets an ex council semi, that should have been paid off decades ago and should be let to someone for a reasonable rent, not going lining the pockets of a speculator.

My Swedish friend was saying the other day they have a huge problem near the border as nurses can commute over to Norway to earn way more.

 

[JoeBloggs]

I feel for those who didn't want to strike but have to and our now down in wages due to not being able to work.

Somewhere along the line someone loses, either their job, their wage etc.

 

[popb1tch]

You hear talk a lot about people need to be "paid fairly" which of course everyone does.

But it's so hard to actually quantify what is fair pay as the amount each individual needs for a good standard of living can vary so much.

A nurse that bought a house a while ago so has a mortgage of £200 a month (with much of the house already paid for) and who had funding for training could have a very good lifestyle with a take home pay of £2200 a month.

Someone paying £1600 rent a month, 90k debt to pay off and taking home £2200 is in a very different situation. Council tax £150, energy £200, water £50 and that's just £200 for everything else. It's not hard to imagine with so little buffer that some face hardship.

This!!!! X 1000'!!!!

it all comes down to housing…far too many overseas investors/speculators have an interest in our housing market…combine that with the plethora of domestic investors/buy to let landlords and it’s no wonder that affording a place to live has become punitively expensive. There enough houses out there, they are just in the wrong hands…

I don’t know if the government knows how close to mass civil unrest we are

 

[Yel]

it all comes down to housing

Yep, I say this all the time on the discontent thread but the housing crisis is the everything crisis.

Everyone from Blair to Sunak should hang their head in shame that they didn't try to fix it.

 

[gigilouxx]

This!!!! X 1000'!!!!

it all comes down to housing…far too many overseas investors/speculators have an interest in our housing market…combine that with the plethora of domestic investors/buy to let landlords and it’s no wonder that affording a place to live has become punitively expensive. There enough houses out there, they are just in the wrong hands…

I don’t know if the government knows how close to mass civil unrest we are

Combined with the fact a landlord can evict someone for no reason, have them in council temp accommodation for x amount of years, then on top of that list the house back on rightmove or whatever for 2-300 quid more than what the previous tenant had it for. Buy to let landlords have no place in the current rent market in my opinion, why the hell should anyone pay extortionate amounts of money to pay someone else’s mortgage, all the while being told they can’t get their own

 

[Yel]

And this mainly goes into the pockets of "investors", who managed to buy a house at the right price and then remortgaged it to buy some buy to let's.

The UK now spends more on housing benefit than on most government departments
High private rents and stagnant wages mean housing benefit now costs £23.4bn a year.

The UK now spends more on housing benefit than on most government departments

High private rents and stagnant wages mean housing benefit now costs £23.4bn a year.

www.newstatesman.com

 

[popb1tch]

100% mortgages would put a lot of these buy to let slumlords out of business overnight and can’t come soon enough in my book

 

[gigilouxx]

I think the best way they could introduce a recruitment drive is through creating other methods to become a nurse without a degree. Surely an apprenticeship style system available for people who don’t work in healthcare would be a better option than what’s currently available? Probably cheaper as well as the NHS bursary is a fair chunk especially for those who have children

 

[Rosie glow]

I think nurses saying they can't live on £33,000 is putting people's backs up as a full time retail worker my mum earns £18,200 a year she is single so no other income she pays all bills and has never used a food bank. If you can't live on £33,000 a year you need to look at your lifestyle. How many of them have a second wage coming in too

 

[popb1tch]

I think the best way they could introduce a recruitment drive is through creating other methods to become a nurse without a degree. Surely an apprenticeship style system available for people who don’t work in healthcare would be a better option than what’s currently available? Probably cheaper as well as the NHS bursary is a fair chunk especially for those who have children

That’s already in place but not in the numbers required because it requires clinical supervision by staff that don’t have time or don’t exist

I think nurses saying they can't live on £33,000 is putting people's backs up as a full time retail worker my mum earns £18,200 a year she is single so no other income she pays all bills and has never used a food bank. If you can't live on £33,000 a year you need to look at your lifestyle. How many of them have a second wage coming in too

I don’t think they are saying they can’t live on it but what they have to do for that money isn’t worth it…as a graduate salary for a person with 10 years of experience £33k is crap…plus of course many nurses leave nursing to go work at Aldi and Lidl because the hourly rate and shift pattern is far easier to live with

But it is becoming increasingly difficult to manage on that money, especially if you have little kids

 

[JoeBloggs]

100% mortgages would put a lot of these buy to let slumlords out of business overnight and can’t come soon enough in my book

The only way these could come back is with stringent check which would rule out a lot of people. This was part of the cause of the 2008 crash as they over lended to people.

I don’t think they are saying they can’t live on it but what they have to do for that money isn’t worth it…as a graduate salary for a person with 10 years of experience £33k is crap…plus of course many nurses leave nursing to go work at Aldi and Lidl because the hourly rate and shift pattern is far easier to live with

But it is becoming increasingly difficult to manage on that money, especially if you have little kids

I disagree, I am 9 years out of uni and I don't know many people my age who earn more than this and they are not in the NHS. You do not go into nursing thinking it is going to make you a fortune.

While I agree with it's hard if live in an expensive area or have kids but sorry there are options, someone on £33,000 even as a single person isn't doing too badly and this is what is getting the publics backs up. On £16-18,000 then yes but not over £30k.

 

[popb1tch]

The only way these could come back is with stringent check which would rule out a lot of people. This was part of the cause of the 2008 crash as they over lended to people.


I disagree, I am 9 years out of uni and I don't know many people my age who earn more than this and they are not in the NHS. You do not go into nursing thinking it is going to make you a fortune.

While I agree with it's hard if live in an expensive area or have kids but sorry there are options, someone on £33,000 even as a single person isn't doing too badly and this is what is getting the publics backs up. On £16-18,000 then yes but not over £30k.

That’s because wages have stagnated
People of all working groups should demand and expect for for their valuable time
£30k was a reasonable salary when I graduated 20 years ago…it certainly isn’t now

 

[JoeBloggs]

That’s because wages have stagnated
People of all working groups should demand and expect for for their valuable time
£30k was a reasonable salary when I graduated 20 years ago…it certainly isn’t now

Yes and I agree with that, but as the public on the same wages it is hard to accept that they are striking and refusing good increases when we have to just accept our wage. At the end of the day this is not an industry problem it is a problem for the whole of the UK, everyone needs a pay rise but where does the money come from especially for those who run small/medium businesses.

 

[popb1tch]

Yes and I agree with that, but as the public on the same wages it is hard to accept that they are striking and refusing good increases when we have to just accept our wage. At the end of the day this is not an industry problem it is a problem for the whole of the UK, everyone needs a pay rise but where does the money come from especially for those who run small/medium businesses.

I think everyone has the right to expect better and withdraw their labour
Theres enough money out there, don’t be fooled by newspaper barons and the right wing media who would keep us all down

I think Victorian social progressives and philanthropists would be turning in their graves if they could see what has happened to the life chances of the vast majority of people over the last 12 years of Tory government