Nurses striking

[Emsie]

yes, all the nurses who are unhappy should leave and go and work for private healthcare, then we would have no NHS and no health service to care for any poor/vulnerable people. Everyone who can’t afford private healthcare should then just suffer should they?
why don’t we just open the workhouse as well whilst we are at it?
honestly listen to yourself

I'm trying to understand what the issue is so climb down off your high horse. You've got people in this thread saying is about money, others saying it's about working conditions and you being a saint saying it's because of the elderly and vulnerable.
I'm not sure I would stay somewhere so horrendous to save the world, probably lucky I'm not a nurse as I would have jumped ship years ago.
As others have said the NHS needs reform. If this was your business you'd have closed it down years ago as it doesn't work. That isn't the fault of nurses on the ground though.

Either way there won’t be nurses? I don’t really understand what you mean. You said why don’t they all leave if they’re unhappy, and they are. They leave the profession, country or nurse as bank staff contracted back to the nhs.

What I mean is are people still qualifying as nurses and then going to work somewhere that isn't the nhs.
Or are people just not qualifying as nurses anymore.
The root cause. You can't fix anything without knowing the root cause.
Does the NHS need reform or should there be better incentive for nurses. Either of those would be costly and not necessarily benefit right now.

 

[Former_Antelopee]

Maybe an unpopular opinion but one thing I don’t agree with is student nurses thinking they should be paid for training work. They aren’t the only ones who have to work to qualify for their degree. It’s horrible having to work for free obviously but whenever I see student nurses post about it they always make out it’s only them that has to do it. Imo it should be the people who supervise/train them that get paid more.

 

[Emsie]

Maybe an unpopular opinion but one thing I don’t agree with is student nurses thinking they should be paid for training work. They aren’t the only ones who have to work to qualify for their degree. It’s horrible having to work for free obviously but whenever I see student nurses post about it they always make out it’s only them that has to do it. Imo it should be the people who supervise/train them that get paid more.

Same with paying for their pin and parking. Plenty of people have to pay professional memberships and we all pay our own parking.

 

[Purrrrrrr]

I don't understand why people are not up in arms or on the street protesting about what is happening to our NHS.
it's being deliberately destroyed because the governments want the UK to be the same as the USA. Most of it has already been sold and or privatised, this isn't new it's on its last legs

PM won't even negotiate because they (governments) want the strikes to happen because they want the public to turn against the strikers. it's going to be too late to do anything soon.

 

[I_Like_Tractors]

Same with paying for their pin and parking. Plenty of people have to pay professional memberships and we all pay our own parking.

I don't think many people pay to park at their place of work when it isn't in a town centre. At my trust there's an 8 year waiting list to pay £25 a month to maybe get a space, and it's a bun fight and you can drive around looking for one for an hour because they're still aren't enough for the permits issued.

(Appreciate this isn't the issue but seeing as you bought it up)

As you say, nursing isn't for you if you don't quite understand it because it does tend to be for those where it's more than just a job. Same for most NHS roles. You can earn more working somewhere else but you tend to do the job because you feel drawn to the health service and love what it stands for.

 

[Emsie]

I don't understand why people are not up in arms or on the street protesting about what is happening to our NHS.
it's being deliberately destroyed because the governments want the UK to be the same as the USA. Most of it has already been sold and or privatised, this isn't new it's on its last legs

PM won't even negotiate because they (governments) want the strikes to happen because they want the public to turn against the strikers. it's going to be too late to do anything soon.

TBF I don't think people will ever turn against the NHS. It is very highly valued. But things do need to change within the organisation.

 

[Eltonjohnsflorist]

I'm trying to understand what the issue is so climb down off your high horse. You've got people in this thread saying is about money, others saying it's about working conditions and you being a saint saying it's because of the elderly and vulnerable.
I'm not sure I would stay somewhere so horrendous to save the world, probably lucky I'm not a nurse as I would have jumped ship years ago.
As others have said the NHS needs reform. If this was your business you'd have closed it down years ago as it doesn't work. That isn't the fault of nurses on the ground though.


What I mean is are people still qualifying as nurses and then going to work somewhere that isn't the nhs.
Or are people just not qualifying as nurses anymore.
The root cause. You can't fix anything without knowing the root cause.
Does the NHS need reform or should there be better incentive for nurses. Either of those would be costly and not necessarily benefit right now.

Or could it possibly be…. A complex mixture of things that don’t fit into a nice simple box?

And no, there aren’t enough, as many, whatever you want to call it, people qualifying as nurses. Again you seem to want the simple option of zero nurses or enough. There is a shortage, there has been a shortage of people training as nurses for many years

 

[Purrrrrrr]

TBF I don't think people will ever turn against the NHS. It is very highly valued. But things do need to change within the organisation.

Wait until those who would have died due to the cutbacks anyway are used to demonise the strikers. Media when used together with the government is a very powerful tool.

 

[Eltonjohnsflorist]

I can’t think of any profession where you train for free. What professions do that?

I am a professional, and I wouldn’t work anywhere that didn’t pay my professional fee/ subscription. It’s only ever been an issue in one place, a university, and I turned down the job because of it

I don't understand why people are not up in arms or on the street protesting about what is happening to our NHS.
it's being deliberately destroyed because the governments want the UK to be the same as the USA. Most of it has already been sold and or privatised, this isn't new it's on its last legs

PM won't even negotiate because they (governments) want the strikes to happen because they want the public to turn against the strikers. it's going to be too late to do anything soon.

Surely though, the next pay review board will have to consider inflation in their recommendation… they suggested a inflationary pay increase in February 22, what else can they do in February 23?

 

[Former_Antelopee]

I can’t think of any profession where you train for free. What professions do that?

I am a professional, and I wouldn’t work anywhere that didn’t pay my professional fee/ subscription. It’s only ever been an issue in one place, a university, and I turned down the job because of it



Surely though, the next pay review board will have to consider inflation in their recommendation… they suggested a inflationary pay increase in February 22, what else can they do in February 23?

I don’t want to say what I do but I worked 40.5hours a week for free whilst training for my degree - think it was 20/22 weeks in first and third year and then the full second year. I’ve seen others post comments on nurses posts also saying they worked for free whilst training.
It was horrible working that much for free but I knew at the end it would be worth it.

 

[Avenged7Fold]

Maybe an unpopular opinion but one thing I don’t agree with is student nurses thinking they should be paid for training work. They aren’t the only ones who have to work to qualify for their degree. It’s horrible having to work for free obviously but whenever I see student nurses post about it they always make out it’s only them that has to do it. Imo it should be the people who supervise/train them that get paid more.

If they went back to the old system, student nurses would be paid and would be viewed as a valuable part of making up staff numbers like they used to be.
When I was in my second year of training in the late 70s we were so short staffed that they put my intake on nights. I was on a 28 bed surgical ward on my own, my friend was on the ward opposite and we had a sister running between to do the drugs
No one died that we didn’t expect to, everyone got their obs done and was cared for. It was ridiculously busy, and definitely wouldn’t be deemed safe now, but we did it and I think it made me the confident and capable person I am now.
I went straight from qualifying to my first job in charge of a medical ward with a couple of students and an auxiliary nurse. It was a baptism of fire, but I enjoyed every minute mostly.
Nursing has changed so much. I didn’t look on it as a career, to me it was a vocation and I didn’t want to be stuck in the office, so I stayed as a general nurse until I had kids and never went back

 

[Eltonjohnsflorist]

I don’t want to say what I do but I worked 40.5hours a week for free whilst training for my degree - think it was 20/22 weeks in first and third year and then the full second year. I’ve seen others post comments on nurses posts also saying they worked for free whilst training.
It was horrible working that much for free but I knew at the end it would be worth it.

That’s not a profession though is it? Ie Vet/ law/ doctor/ accountant/ chartered surveyor? You didn’t *have* to work for free to become qualified in whatever you do (a proper qualification, we’re not talking about work experience)

 

[Former_Antelopee]

That’s not a profession though is it? Ie Vet/ law/ doctor/ accountant/ chartered surveyor? You didn’t *have* to work for free to become qualified in whatever you do (a proper qualification, we’re not talking about work experience)

Yes I did. I couldn’t have qualified if I didn’t do them hours, it wasn’t just work experience.

 

[Eltonjohnsflorist]

Well if you won’t say what it is I’ll be none the wiser and continue to believe no professions make you work for free to qualify tbh

 

[Yel]

People should definitely be paid for working while training. Otherwise it creates a barrier and reduces social mobility.

 

[struggs123]

I agree with the strikes, it is about more than pay (although that would help with retention) but technically you can only strike for certain things. Raising awareness of the working conditions, as has been done via social media and via threads like this is a natural offshoot from the strikes and also what its all about.

I left nursing as although I loved it and have never wanted to do anything else, its absolutely awful being dangerously short staffed every shift with no end in sight. Every shift you're not only run off of your feet but you know you cannot deliver the level of care you want to whilst also worrying about whether something is going to go wrong and you'll lose your pin or worse. Morale is super low since covid as well- people are burnt out, exhausted and leaving in their thousands. The NHS as is simply cannot go on as it is, it's unsustainable and people are needlessly dying every day which is just scary and sad.

I do think it needs an overhaul though, I'd separate out medical roles and admin roles when it comes to banding. Admin and corporate do work really hard but I don't think if we fight for more pay they should also get a bump, selfish I know. Also lots of other fundamental changes than no government will ever tackle, not just within healthcare but also social and economic factors that affect peoples health and lives.

I don't think striking is the golden bullet, but similarly something has to be done as the government have known about these brewing issues for years and haven't done anything. Ridiculously as well some wards have had more staff during strike action as they are bound to min staffing which is just...ridiculous.

Edit to add: I was fortunate and trained when the degree was funded and we had a bursary. I don't know how people manage now and it is absolutely a travesty that students working full time hours on wards got blocks of time do not get paid, in fact they pay to be there effectively. Also the hospital parking and paying for your revalidation etc let's not even go there. If people in the private sector want to fight for better conditions I'd back them and stand with them. As the government is ours that's why we direct it towards them, direct it towards yours if you feel they should pay for your parking etc.

 

[Emsie]

Or could it possibly be…. A complex mixture of things that don’t fit into a nice simple box?

And no, there aren’t enough, as many, whatever you want to call it, people qualifying as nurses. Again you seem to want the simple option of zero nurses or enough. There is a shortage, there has been a shortage of people training as nurses for many years

That's not what I want. I find your attitude similar to nurses attitudes in general and it's hard to get on your side when I'm being preached to about how hard your life is because your salary hasn't risen 19 per cent.

 

[popb1tch]

That's not what I want. I find your attitude similar to nurses attitudes in general and it's hard to get on your side when I'm being preached to about how hard your life is because your salary hasn't risen 19 per cent.

I’m not an expert but I think the gist is…during 12 years of austerity measures all public sector workers had below inflationary pay rises. So maybe 1% each year even when retail prices grew maybe 3 or 4%, bills went up by more and let’s not forget how much the cost of housing has gone up in that time.

So the debt you accrued to do your job as a student attracts a level of interest that you yourself do not get paid.

Couple that with the fact that society and the government was perfectly happy to risk your life during the pandemic and many, many health service workers died of covid and the government didn’t supply the correct protective equipment despite the billions of taxpayers money wasted.

For many years patients have died because they simply aren’t enough nurses to run around answering call bells, delivering medication, responding to crash calls and so on…this has been happening FOR YEARS….

The running around for 12 hour shifts with several staff members down each and every shift has just got a bit much.

Shifts are down because nurses have left, retired, died or called in sick because the reward on offer for this level of effort simply isn’t enough

It isn’t just nurses though…it’s all public sector workers…..it’s the police, social workers, care workers, firemen…etc etc

 

[Eltonjohnsflorist]

Sometimes there are people who pretend they want to understand when really they’re just anti supporting the most important workers in our society and don’t want to come out explicitly and say that. I’m sure that’s where you are.
It’s not my side, it’s the side of the right thing to do. I’m not a nurse or anything like.
I don’t need a 19% pay increase because I already get paid shitloads and don’t contribute anything like the value medics do.

 

[OnlyHereForTheLolz]

Sometimes there are people who pretend they want to understand when really they’re just anti supporting the most important workers in our society and don’t want to come out explicitly and say that. I’m sure that’s where you are.
It’s not my side, it’s the side of the right thing to do. I’m not a nurse or anything like.
I don’t need a 19% pay increase because I already get paid shitloads and don’t contribute anything like the value medics do.

Why don’t you donate your salary to fhe nurses?