Nurses striking

[Tui]

I never said leave and do retail work, not once. Ihave called you out on looking down and making unsavoury remarks about low skilled jobs. Also in general you have shown that you think you are better than others.

I’ve said from the start why I’m not pro strikes in this economic climate. I have also said I’d be supportive if it was a year or two down the line when the economy have recovered. But still you are continually making remarks about people and how idiotic they are for not being supportive.

Initially the thread was called OPINIONS and we shared them.
And if you are tired of the thread why keep returning trolling those you consider “below” you.

Let’s be honest not a single person have been able to show where in the public media it’s not been about pay. You can’t quote the RCN and some nursing magazine/website. Who outside of the medical field reads those?
But the biggest issue is the union reps who go on tv, smirking and just talk about pay

I’ve never once called any idiotic

and my comment about repeated tropes was a general observation and not directed at any one person and there have been people who haven’t said anything like this either.

who strikes when economic times are good? Anyway I’m sure the BMA can’t rely on your support when we potentially strike next month which is a shame but our campaign is all about pay

 

[shifttea]

I’m an ex nurse and would never go back because it’s just not nursing any more. I liked the hands on approach. Spending my day giving out meds and keyboard bashing and shouting for the healthcare assistant when a patient wants to go to the toilet is not my idea of nursing. My friend is an HCA and they do the bulk of the work, blood tests, taking observations, feeding, washing, dressings etc. They aren’t striking, if they did the NHS would fall apart.
Nurses are vital, but they aren’t in the real world if they think they are going to get 16 percent.
The NHS needs a massive overhaul starting with nurses training going back to basics, and stop relying on the overworked and poorly paid HCAs
Rant over

I know this is an older post, but I just want to say I agree. I work in a private nursing home as a HCA. the nurses do their med rounds and then sit at the computer all day. they get paid twice what I do. I do all of the personal care, feeding, catheter care, skincare, oral care. I make notes of any concerns, I do heights and weights monthly, I do the obs, I get to know my residents and their families.

my mum is a HCA in the NHS and she says it's much the same for her. we both now have the view that HCA's are the "traditional" nurses that actually care for patients, whereas trained nurses are more admin folk that anything else.

I know that this isn't how it is everywhere, just before anyone grabs their pitchfork. I know plenty of nurses do actually work, and plenty of HCA's are lazy mats, but in general, HCA's are doing most of the work now.

Nurses need better pay, but so do HCA's. what we get paid does absolutely not reflect the enormity of our tasks. I love my job, I love caring for my residents, when they pass I grieve for them, but I am also frustrated. society in general looks down on myself and other HCA's. this is not some unskilled job that anyone can do. it's physically and mentally exhausting, and I do it for £10.50 an hour.

Sooner or later, HCA's will strike, and all hell will break loose.

anyway, rant over

 

[Avenged7Fold]

I know this is an older post, but I just want to say I agree. I work in a private nursing home as a HCA. the nurses do their med rounds and then sit at the computer all day. they get paid twice what I do. I do all of the personal care, feeding, catheter care, skincare, oral care. I make notes of any concerns, I do heights and weights monthly, I do the obs, I get to know my residents and their families.

my mum is a HCA in the NHS and she says it's much the same for her. we both now have the view that HCA's are the "traditional" nurses that actually care for patients, whereas trained nurses are more admin folk that anything else.

I know that this isn't how it is everywhere, just before anyone grabs their pitchfork. I know plenty of nurses do actually work, and plenty of HCA's are lazy mats, but in general, HCA's are doing most of the work now.

Nurses need better pay, but so do HCA's. what we get paid does absolutely not reflect the enormity of our tasks. I love my job, I love caring for my residents, when they pass I grieve for them, but I am also frustrated. society in general looks down on myself and other HCA's. this is not some unskilled job that anyone can do. it's physically and mentally exhausting, and I do it for £10.50 an hour.

Sooner or later, HCA's will strike, and all hell will break loose.

anyway, rant over

I’m with you. I’m a support worker for people with very complex needs. If we didn’t do the job then NHS nurses would have to do it, taking them away from the wards. If my client goes in to hospital, we go with him as he’s a handful and we can communicate with him and know his little ways.
Sort out social care and there would be less people in hospital “bed-blocking” as they like to call it.

 

[judgejohndeed]

I agree with a some of what you said until you said top band fives moan as they’ve reached their skill set and should move up. I don’t want to work up to being a manger or to lead people. I’m skilled and good at my job. To move up you have to interview for the role and then comes extra responsibility. The whole system needs a revamp those working as top band five in a&e and more specialised areas should be paid more for their skills compared to someone working in outpatients. I might want to stay a band five, Graduates of other careers don’t have to stay stagnant and be forced into managerial roles if they don’t want to as the pay rises come in. I don’t want to manage people. I’d like a bit more money to pay my rent and bills without having to rely on extra shifts.

I disagree. In pretty much all jobs you either need to gain new and more difficult skills to gain a payrise, or move into management, why should nursing be different? If you're a retail assistant and you don't want to be a manager, you don't get paid more just because you've worked as a retail assistant for 15 years? If I want my fees to increase, I can't be doing the same kinds of cases I did 5 years ago. Doctors progressing up their payscale learn more and more difficult skills. The actual band 5 job you're doing doesn't change by job description when you've done it for 5, 10, 15 years so the idea that you should get more money just for doing it longer is wild tbh, I can't think of any other industries where this would happen. There are also other specialist nursing roles at band 6+, it isn't only management. If you've chosen an area where you stagnate at a band 5 without becoming management and you want more money, then the obvious/sensible thing to do would be to change specialism.

I think this kind of thing is why so many people don't support the strikes tbh. It comes across as 'I want more money but no harder work and no more responsiblity' - well, don't we all.

 

[ChrisInghamsBeanie]

If they are concerned about dangers to patient safety, surely striking will only add to those dangers.

What's the alternative? If nurses didnt/don't strike nobody would ever listen to them.

 

[judgejohndeed]

But you do earn more as the living wage increases!!!!! It doesn’t with nurses. I could work in a pharmacy dispensing or any other job and my wage will go up. I could work in construction and just say i want a pay rise and if you’re worthy they will. Without being forced to take in a leadership role. You’re missing the point.

Every single year there’s been an agenda for change uplift? The pay does go up. You can’t just say ‘I want a pay rise’ and get one in any job I’m not missing your point at all, it’s just a fundamentally stupid one.

 

[shifttea]

I’m with you. I’m a support worker for people with very complex needs. If we didn’t do the job then NHS nurses would have to do it, taking them away from the wards. If my client goes in to hospital, we go with him as he’s a handful and we can communicate with him and know his little ways.
Sort out social care and there would be less people in hospital “bed-blocking” as they like to call it.

social care is a mess right now. the local councils have started block booking rooms and having hospital patients discharged straight into said rooms. my home has over 30 residents and we regularly only have 5 care staff on. Most of our residents need very involved care. around half are hoisted and unable to communicate. the residents that are coming in are completely unsuited for the type of home im in, they require much more advanced/specialist care, but the councils and government just don't care.

The staffing levels are completely unsafe, and we can't take the time to provide care to a satisfactory standard. I leave work every day feeling as though I could've done more.

Plus, the amount that social care (and the nhs) is spending on agency is just absurd. pay your core staff better, train them better, provide incentive for new starts, and you eliminate the need for agency. I am sick and tired of spending time having to show agency workers basic tit like how to use a slide sheet. I am sick of my residents being confused and upset because unfamiliar people are doing their personal care. I am sick of them being paid way more than they ever should be.

anyway, rant 2 over.

 

[gigilouxx]

I’ve never once called any idiotic

and my comment about repeated tropes was a general observation and not directed at any one person and there have been people who haven’t said anything like this either.

who strikes when economic times are good? Anyway I’m sure the BMA can’t rely on your support when we potentially strike next month which is a shame but our campaign is all about pay

Think my bleepin doctors been on strike since about 2018 cos I’ve not been able to get in for an appointment

 

[intheindustry]

I disagree. In pretty much all jobs you either need to gain new and more difficult skills to gain a payrise, or move into management, why should nursing be different? If you're a retail assistant and you don't want to be a manager, you don't get paid more just because you've worked as a retail assistant for 15 years? If I want my fees to increase, I can't be doing the same kinds of cases I did 5 years ago. Doctors progressing up their payscale learn more and more difficult skills. The actual band 5 job you're doing doesn't change by job description when you've done it for 5, 10, 15 years so the idea that you should get more money just for doing it longer is wild tbh, I can't think of any other industries where this would happen. There are also other specialist nursing roles at band 6+, it isn't only management. If you've chosen an area where you stagnate at a band 5 without becoming management and you want more money, then the obvious/sensible thing to do would be to change specialism.

I think this kind of thing is why so many people don't support the strikes tbh. It comes across as 'I want more money but no harder work and no more responsiblity' - well, don't we all.

completely agree
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My husband was in the army and once he reached the top of his rank there were no more payrises and during his time there was a cost of living freeze for public sector. In his case it emphasised the need to work hard and get a promotion to reach the next pay scale.
In the public sector there are scales and if there’s a maximum you can earn then despite your best efforts your pay won’t increase, they’ll be people at the top of their banding that can’t go higher other than the 2-3% cost of living rise. Frustratingly you can’t expect a payrise every year, even if you’ve worked your socks off and bent over backwards, worked overtime for no extra money, kissed bosses a etc.
Some jobs you end up in are dead man’s shoes so you’ve reached the end of the line both professionally and salary wise. Otherwise you’ve have people in roles earning more than they are feesibly worth.
During covid my husband was working crazy hours in the office at home, no thanks, no extra money. He was lucky he had a job.
If you asked 90% of the population if you think they earn what they are worth the country would grind to a halt, everyone thinks they should earn more?

 

[Tui]

You will also, being in a normal job have the option of looking around and applying for a job with more money. You can’t do that in the nhs. The NHS is outdated with its pay scales. I can be responsible for training people and looking after people who are on deaths door, but Brenda in outpatients just does basic obs and bloods and that’s her done for the day she’s on the same pay as me. The pay in the NHS needs a revamp.
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And yeah you can, I know people who have said to their boss they need more money and they can either get it or look for something else.

I think you’re right about the old fashioned pay. Where is the incentive for experienced staff nurses to stay nursing on busy understaffed and frankly dangerous wards when they can go to outpatients and have a much easier time of it. do you get uplifts for nights etc?

 

[Former_Antelopee]

Yeah we get paid more for unsociable hours!

Do any nurses do full time nights? I know in my local hospital they don’t but wondered if this was just in certain hospitals? If so how much more do nurses get paid a year to do full time nights if you know? I’m just wondering as I do full time nights and want to see if the difference in my job is similar

 

[Dragon100]

Havin

 

[Emsie]

I can see the firefighters have accepted a 7% payrise. That seems fair to me. What do the nurses on this thread think? Is 7% reasonable?

 

[Yel]

Any deal has to be more than just x% pay rise imo. It has to address the workforce issues so people enter the profession.

 

[Emsie]

can you only enter nursing by uni education? Perhaps there needs to be an apprenticeship pathway offered too. If there is already one, it doesn't seem to be widely publicised. I think entry to the nursing profession needs to update itself. It's lost the millennial and gen z intake I think but that can be turned around. Not everyone has the privilege of a uni education.

 

[Jaceydooley]

I can see the firefighters have accepted a 7% payrise. That seems fair to me. What do the nurses on this thread think? Is 7% reasonable?

Anything that’s going to attract more staff and make patients safe is reasonable to me!

 

[Tui]

can you only enter nursing by uni education? Perhaps there needs to be an apprenticeship pathway offered too. If there is already one, it doesn't seem to be widely publicised. I think entry to the nursing profession needs to update itself. It's lost the millennial and gen z intake I think but that can be turned around. Not everyone has the privilege of a uni education.

We have nursing associates which is an alternative pathway to a similar role. On the radio today applicants to nursing are down a fifth since 2021. It’s a less attractive career than it was. Lots to do to turn that around but recruiting and training more cannon fodder isn’t going to really help when people don’t want to stay in the career once trained

 

[Kaylarina]

Just saw this thread. Don't quite have the staying power for all 28 pages but just wanted to jump on. I'm a doctor (general surgery, ST6) and in my opinion nurses are severely underpaid for what they do. I personally think a lot of roles (both clinical and non-clinical) within the NHS are under paid so I do think it needs to be looked at in a lot more detail then it just being the nurses who work so hard.

My husband is a consultant cardiothoracic surgeon and he has an amazing secretary (aka work wife) who works exceptionally hard, often staying over her hours (unpaid) to ensure everything is done for the patients. At the top of the scale and with London weighting she gets £31539, which if I have worked this out correctly, assuming pension contributions she takes home about £1865 a month. We’re in central London where I think you’d struggle to find anything that would cost less than £1000/£1200 a month in rent or mortgage so there’s not going to be much left over.

I was asked the other day what I would do regarding if the junior doctors strike and (my colleagues may hate me for this) I wouldn’t strike. Is it long hours? Yes. Do you get a lot of the crap that the consultants don’t want? Sure. But that being said, I don’t think the pay is that bad.

 

[Yel]

central London where I think you’d struggle to find anything that would cost less than £1000/£1200 a month in rent or mortgage

And that is the root of the problem.

It's not really about nurses but that society as a whole has got worse off as house price and rent have been allowed to spiral out of control. There's been a huge transfer of wealth over the past few decades.

Now the era of cheap money, cheap food and reasonable priced energy is over the problems that have been building up are all bubbling over.

The whole thing needs fundamental change,.

 

[Gloria Rostron]

I can see the firefighters have accepted a 7% payrise. That seems fair to me. What do the nurses on this thread think? Is 7% reasonable?

7% is very reasonable. The greedy narcissists won't settle for that though.
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Lots prefer jig guy but where I work they

are all strikers narcissists?
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Are all strikers narcissists?

The ones demanding 19% are. As are the ones who feel the need to tell you they work for the NHS within the first sentence of conversation for self gratification are too.