Nurses striking

[gigilouxx]

The government are on a sticky wicket re. overseas workers as they are now reliant on UKIP defectors for support.

It’s just been balls up after balls up hasnt it, the scary thing is, people vote them in

 

[Emsie]

Do you think its doctors fault no one can get an appointment? Like they just sit with their feet up?

The Tories are killing the NHS off. Nurses will get much fairer pay when they inevitably introduce a US style system. It'll be us patients that suffer.

That's exactly what I think tbh. My doctor is never at the surgery. Telephone appointments galore where we are.

 

[judgejohndeed]

I don't really see the issue with the telephone triage? The last couple of times I've had that I didn't actually need to go and see a doctor, I just spoke to them by phone. Saves me the trip of going in. I do think some people need to get with the times. You don't necessarily need to see someone face to face. I've also used private appointments done by video call and again I prefer that to having to go anywhere. Had my prescription within 15 mins and even had the option of having it delivered to my home. The NHS definitely needs an overhaul but I don't think the people arguing that realise an overhaul would most likely result in an increase in telemedicine or seeing e.g. ANPs rather than a GP, and they never seem to want that either.

Re car parks - this was over 10 years ago now but when I worked in the NHS you had the option of paying £20 a month for the car park, and that wasn't even your own allocated space, just being allowed to use it! People were always moaning that they didn't get a space and they were paying for it. Stupid system.

 

[OnlyHereForTheLolz]

Honestly you don’t have a clue and have made that pretty clear in this thread. Try doing say, 5 minutes, research.

“Denise Kelly, Chair of the RCN Trade Union Committee, said: "Enough is enough. We have reached crisis point. We have been underpaid, undervalued for the safety critical nature of the role we do. But this is not just about pay, this is also about patient safety."”

Enough is enough | RCN magazines | Royal College of Nursing

In a historic day for the RCN, nursing staff came together to strike in England, Northern Ireland and Wales.

www.rcn.org.uk

Who reads the RCN but people belonging to the union. Maybe ask them to publicly say these things not just claim it to their members.

You really have issues with ithers by your condescending manner. If it’s even true that you are a Dr I wouldn’t be surprised if you get struck off.

Anyway why did the thread title change? I wouodn’t bother with a thread for nurses striking.
We were asked our opinions on the matter

 

[OnlyHereForTheLolz]

An entry level nurse gets under £20k. From that, s/he has to pay for parking, ever-increasing utility bills, rent, phone (mandatory for staff), food and often childcare. They do hours of unpaid overtime. The Tory Brexit screwed the profession and now we’re tens of thousands of health professionals short. The ones at the bottom have to pick up all the slack.
You think that’s good enough? You think that’s fair? You think all nurses are little Florence Nightingales, pressing their cool hand to a fevered brow and working for free because of their saintly vocation?
Get real. When there are nurses using foodbanks, there’s a real problem. Claps don’t put food on the table. Blame the Tories instead. They’re the ones who have crushed wages since 2010.

So you’re on your feet for 12 hour shifts, then, responsible for the near-to-death at every second? If so, I’d love to know what industry you work in.

I never clapped didn't think it was needed as the pandemic is what they were trained for. Also a lot of people are struggling not just nurses if you read further on I said they should demand more money just not in this economic climate.
Still don't agree with it.

 

[cee-bee]

The government are on a sticky wicket re. overseas workers as they are now reliant on UKIP defectors for support.

to add to that - migration into the U.K. will add more pressure onto existing infrastructure.

im not anti-immigration by any means but the government havent funded public services. Everything, from schools to homes to healthcare has been cut to the bone.

inviting more people into the U.K. when there isn’t existing infrastructure, is a short term solution to a long term problem, and might exacerbate the already tense public feeling towards migration.

by all means, invite in foreign workers but that isn’t enough. They can and should be investing in people in the U.K.

it was a political decision to remove funding though. It was a political decision to cut public spending so drastically, and it was a political decision based on ideaology NOT economics.

and where are the people who made those ideological deceisions? They are multi millionaires who have directly profited and benefitted from their decisions. Keep that in mind next time you read a tabloid coming to their defence and for the love of god, keep it in mind when you next have to vote.

 

[Rosie glow]

Honestly! I can't cope with the superiority! Especially when I went on to read they didn't even work themselves during the pandemic. Sit the fuck down then

I missed the bit where they didn't even work through the pandemic, oh well least they were safe up in their ivory tower while us non medically trained plebs kept the country going in our own ways. Hope they didn't have home delivery from tesco how hypocritical would that be

 

[Tui]

Just to interject speaking as a doctor, that quoted salary of £50-78k a year is not at all comparable to a band 5 nurse so potentially a newly qualified? It gets wheeled out all the time but that is the rate you would be seeing as a specialty doctor, so a specialised senior doctor who perhaps hasn’t completed UK training in a specialty but is highly specialised, operating towards or at consultant level but not able to call themselves a consultant. They will do their own clinics, have their own operating lists and are not in formal trianing
(https://www.healthcareers.nhs.uk/explore-roles/doctors/pay-doctors/pay-doctors). Most doctors are not specialty doctors, they are either consultants or on/between formal training pathways (“junior doctors”). To be earning £70+k you’re looking at a full time consultant. Obviously this is a decent wage but it is being eroded year on year by sub inflationary pay rises and many of the expenses of our work not being funded (for example, I have to do a mandatory exam as part of my training programme and it cost me £700).

An FY1 doctor ie in the first year of practice, their basic pay in England is £29,384. There are then uplifts for unsocial hours like nights and weekends. This increments gradually but only if they advance through training taking on more responsibilities, effectively doing a different job to an FY1. That’s one benefit of medicine is that compared to nursing there is a stepwise progression in pay, but the job does change substantially as a result. You don’t go over £50k basic until ST3 (“registrar”) which is after a minimum of 4 years practice but many have more years than this due to non linear progression by taking years out of training to spend time as a staff grade and get away from the shitty infantilising treadmill that is being a “junior doctor/trainee”. I’m on this £51k as my basic pay rate even though I have been a doctor for 9 years because I haven’t spent all of those 9 years in training (I was working but not in a formal training programme). This is on top of 6 years in university and 2 degrees. I earn a lot less than this due to being part time so doing less hours obviously.
In Scotland the basic FY1 rate is £26,462 before uplifts. Obviously I can’t compare a top band 5 and an FY1, they don’t equate in the jobs they do and the skills set they have and a top band 5 nurse will have many years of experience which an FY1 will not have.

More info here about doctors pay

The complete guide to NHS pay for doctors

How much do doctors earn in different roles across the UK? An NHS doctor’s salary is more complicated than it might at first appear and varies according to grade, years in role, and where in the UK the job is based. NHS pay is reviewed annually by the Review Body on Doctors’ and Dentists’...

www.bmj.com

And why we are probably going to be striking in March

Why junior doctors are striking - a guide for patients

While workload and waiting lists are at record highs, junior doctors' pay has been cut by more than a quarter since 2008/9. Junior doctors and their patients need change now.

www.bma.org.uk

Sorry to hijack the convo but I keep seeing in the media this £50-78k quote as it’s on the NHS website but it’s just not an accurate reflection of how doctors pay works!

I thought a doctors salary was much higher too? These 2 posts being an example. I don't know anything about levels of doctor though and consultant might be top dog hence why the salary is high.


Can I ask what you do now if you left nursing?

These are consultant posts, it takes 9+ years of training to be a consultant plus some will have done a PHD/MD on top of that.

 

[Polythene Pam]

O
I Work in retail I'm not comparing myself to a qualified nurse but I have 11 qualifications in different fields does that make me better than someone who cleans toilets for a living ? No it doesn't and being a nurse doesn't make you better than me.
Us as retail staff and many other workers worked throughout the pandemic too we didn't have any ppe we were put at risk too we just got on with it Where would the country of been with out us then, we got nothing out of it no pay rise.

It's not about better or worse. Do you think everyone should earn the same salary regardless of the job and different responsibilities? I find comments like this so strange.

 

[gigilouxx]

I think the time they’ve decided to strike is shitty, it’s just before Xmas, there’s a plethora of flus, RSV, strep, MH crisis’ due to the cost of living etc.
I get strikes are meant to disrupt service but in this case disrupting service means even more suffering to the most vulnerable. I can’t get behind that

 

[Emsie]

I just think we’re missing the point that nursing is a highly skilled job requiring a degree so Aldi shouldn’t really be our yardstick unless it’s a comparable job with comparable skills and responsibility. It’s pointless repeating this though.

Mate it was nurses that started banging on about Aldi. It was nurses that made it their yardstick.

 

[Eltonjohnsflorist]

Sometimes there are people who pretend they want to understand when really they’re just anti supporting the most important workers in our society and don’t want to come out explicitly and say that. I’m sure that’s where you are.
It’s not my side, it’s the side of the right thing to do. I’m not a nurse or anything like.
I don’t need a 19% pay increase because I already get paid shitloads and don’t contribute anything like the value medics do.

 

[anotheronebitesthedust.1]

I support the right to strike.
However I don't think nurses are as badly paid as is being made out.

Just to put into comparison if our wages should match the cost of living energy wise , we should be on 62k a year , if it Matches food costs a year we should be on 37k a year , if it matches fuel costs we should be on 39k a year

yes it may seem we are on a lot but it doesn’t reflect the cost of living goimg Up , it’s the same for any job out there who thinks pay should be increased . You can’t increase all the bills and costs of living but not have our wages go up to reflect . Since 2010, we have had a pay cut of 8% so no I don’t think it’s cheeky to ask for a rise Of 4%

 

[instasham13]

A large, blanket pay rise is unfeasible with the insane occupational sick pay and pensions, it’s not like a pay rise in the private sector it’s factoring in all those other benefits that barely get mentioned. If they bring those in line with reality then they’d have a better chance but they won’t and it’s unsustainable. There was a nurse in the news recently who’s been off on full pay since 2020. Try your luck at that in retail or anywhere else.

I do agree that the sick pay is a MAJOR benefit but it is so unbelievably abused that I find it absoloutely disgusting. I've seen it first hand over the last 10 years. Unions will argue the sick pay is needed because NHS staff get burnt out etc but over the years I've seen time and time again people who are on long term sick over and over. They come back and you can bet on them going off again when their sick pay kicks back in.

It's soul destroying for others who actually come to work like myself. What else is compleye madness is that when you're off sick you're annual leave entitlement still remains so people add their annuals leave weeks om the end of their already long sick leave.

 

[gigilouxx]

Everyone’s had a real terms pay cut. Things have gone up. Unless you’re absolutely loaded nobodies money is stretching far anymore. And fair enough you can get UC top ups, but it doesn’t all of a sudden make your wage increase tenfold.

 

[Emsie]

Why aren’t we critical thinkers if we are not supportive of the strikes?
People can still form their own opinions and there are plenty of media outlets who support the strikes.
Just because we disagree doesn’t mean you are the only one using your brain

Yes. Blindly supporting an institution isn't critically thinking either.
It's possible to sympathise with nurses and also disagree with strikes. It's possible to support the NHS whilst agreeing that it needs to change. Who knew!!!!
Tabloid papers mainly agree with the strike action don't they?! The front pages today are either about NHS in crisis or prince harry.

 

[whoareyouu]

You won’t get taxed loads. You will get taxed accordingly to your tax code. The problem with one off payments is that HMRC think that the new gross figure is now your new figure for every month so they tax accordingly. It sorts itself out over the remainder of the tax year

The private sector gets taxed on bonuses too, generally.

It’s also not a pay cut, in real terms everyone else is experiencing a ‘pay cut’ too if we use the same terminology and emotive language.

 

[gigilouxx]

When you’ve got a union boss talking so matter of factly that people are having chemotherapy cancelled over this and then bringing up pay I do think people can comment. The main focus on these strikes have been pay, all the signs on the pickets are about pay, if they want better working conditions then vocalise it.
People are allowed to have an opinion, the healthcare service affects all of us, not just the staff.

 

[HoGi]

Think they’re on about 21 a year or similar

Every comparison of nurses salary to Aldi workers I have seen is comparing NET nurses salary to Gross supermarket employees salary.

So comparing apples and oranges. Stating that fact doesn't make a good headline though!

 

[popb1tch]

I’m a nurse working on a ward, I have been qualified just over a year and feel stressed and exhausted constantly. I have never struggled with mental health but I now struggle sleeping, I’m losing weight and feel down all the time. I used to be a receptionist before deciding to do my nursing degree and wish I never made that choice. If I could turn back time I would choose literally any other degree. I’m still young only 24 so currently looking for any graduate schemes. It’s so sad, I am all for the strike however whatever pay rise they offer simply won’t magic more nurses into the system which is what we need. I’m not surprised nobody wants to do it.

General medical wards are the kiss of death for anyones sanity or wellbeing
The whole model of care never used to be like this…older general medical patients died at the end of their natural lifespan with little intervention and nursing expertise was focused on specialised medical patients and elective surgical patients

The older medical cohort remained in community based care and nobody would have thought of ringing 999 for an 80 year old with a breathing problem

The problem is the unwillingness of folks to face up to mortality, a modicum of patient behaviour and a whole heap of entitlement etc