Nurses striking

[Emsie]

I think you’re missing my overall point in this thread as the pandemic is just one small part of this but overall the strike isn’t about the pandemic it’s about a decade plus of denrigration in pay and working standards. This has happened for many of us not just nurses but the RCN etc can only really deal with nurses. It’s tiring when it keeps getting brought back to what other people did in the pandemic when really that’s not the point of this all

I haven't missed any of your points. I've responded to the one when you thought you were so above a Tesco worker when you were talking about the pandemic.
If this thread isn't about the pandemic then stop going on about it. All I've heard (not from you just in general) is "oh we did this in the pandemic, give me a payrise"

 

[Autisteuse]

Don’t support the strikes at all. Nurses know what he pay is before even entering the workforce.
They are putting public health at risk.
Does the NHS in general need a rethink? Probably yes but this isn’t it and people are already turning on them.
If I had an operation cancelled due to the strikes I’d be fuming.
A lot of nurses had also been bullied into “supporting” the strikes.

Absolute bollocks and nothing anybody says will change my mind. They are better paid than most people

An entry level nurse gets under £20k. From that, s/he has to pay for parking, ever-increasing utility bills, rent, phone (mandatory for staff), food and often childcare. They do hours of unpaid overtime. The Tory Brexit screwed the profession and now we’re tens of thousands of health professionals short. The ones at the bottom have to pick up all the slack.
You think that’s good enough? You think that’s fair? You think all nurses are little Florence Nightingales, pressing their cool hand to a fevered brow and working for free because of their saintly vocation?
Get real. When there are nurses using foodbanks, there’s a real problem. Claps don’t put food on the table. Blame the Tories instead. They’re the ones who have crushed wages since 2010.

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You're not the bad guys. You can strike.
I'm saying that nurses aren't badly paid. That's it.
Average salary in the UK is about 27k. Average nurses salary is about 33k.
Do I think you should be paid more. Absolutely.
Do I think I should be paid more. Absolutely. I work hard too.
I guess I'm fed up with the strapline of nurses work soooo hard. You do. Everyone does.
It's not personal.

So you’re on your feet for 12 hour shifts, then, responsible for the near-to-death at every second? If so, I’d love to know what industry you work in.

 

[mcfeez]

Not really sure where to jump in on this thread. Seems a bit EEEK.

Anyway, I work in the private sector but fully support the nurses striking and anyone's right to withhold their labour if they feel their working conditions are not sufficient.

 

[Tui]

It was nurses that said they are using foodbanks. It was nurses who said that they could earn more at Aldi. It was not one or 2 nurses that said it. Nurses on this thread laughed at someone in this thread that said that they worked at Tesco.
You guys compared yourself to Aldi. Not us little people now you're all mad because you realise how you sound.
Has anyone on this thread has said nurses shouldn't be paid more? I certainly haven't. My stance is you absolutely deserve a payrise (as do most people) and I actually think around 7% is reasonable along with your whatever changes you want to your working conditions. I didn't, and still don't, agree with your reasons and for the theatrical display of nurses in the workhouse as if everyone else is raking it in.
I have no problem with teachers, rail and bus strikes, because they didn't go on like the nurses.
Kinda on the fence with junior doctors. I mean 35% is so unrealistic it's crazy.

“Junior” doctor here (nearly ten years post qualification). The 35% is pay restoration not rise. We have suffered the deepest drop in public sector pay and have high costs associated with our training which we are expected to pay out of our own pockets (e.g exams compulsory for completion of training contracts). What’s unrealistic is a government which expects its health service to deliver “Scandinavian quality with Singaporean efficiency” (to quote our Chancellor) with a stagnant and inadequate budget.

 

[Tui]

I have just left my post as a senior band 5 nurse (which I LOVED) because the lack of staff and the recruiting of overseas nurses has made our job impossible. I have seen so many mistakes being made, way below substandard care and I can’t stay in this profession watching patients die. Yes I might be part of the problem leaving, but I have a family and if I end up in prison because of a mistake made Because of understaffing, my children would be left without a mother.
i think it’s really important to remember that when the shit hits the fan and the life of your loved one is in the balance, you would be personally willing to pay any amount of money for them to be saved.

Exactly: the moral injury of having to work in a shitty health system just isn’t worth the pay eventually. Honestly if NZ was closer I would emigrate tomorrow. I just can’t take my child away from their grandparents. I don’t blame anyone who leaves the system for these reasons, it’s not worth it. But I never fail to be astonished how people can be so short sighted to not see that we NEED to attract and keep people working in the NHS and saying stupid stuff like “some people will nurse regardless of pay”. Fucking clueless honestly.
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No one goes into nursing to get rich. People go into it because they want to nurse. Those people will go into nursing regardless of pay.

You’re a fool if you believe that. There are plenty of jobs attractive to people with a caring vocation without the shit of working in a terminally underfunded nhs

 

[gigilouxx]

No I'm not but that doesn't mean I don't work hard. Comments like this is why you lose my support I don't owe you anything.
Its not just nurses using food banks! Why you acting like the cost of living crisis is only affecting your profession!

Literally it’s doing my head in as well. God forbid anyone other than NHS staff work hard

 

[struggs123]

I’m a nurse working on a ward, I have been qualified just over a year and feel stressed and exhausted constantly. I have never struggled with mental health but I now struggle sleeping, I’m losing weight and feel down all the time. I used to be a receptionist before deciding to do my nursing degree and wish I never made that choice. If I could turn back time I would choose literally any other degree. I’m still young only 24 so currently looking for any graduate schemes. It’s so sad, I am all for the strike however whatever pay rise they offer simply won’t magic more nurses into the system which is what we need. I’m not surprised nobody wants to do it.

There are lots of roles outside of the nhs which would value your degree, the good thing is you can always return one day if things pick up. Don't jeopardise your health for a job. Heartbreaking though isn't it.

 

[Gloria Rostron]

The cost of living is so much more now than it was when I qualified and these newly qualified nurses cannot achieve a standard of living -

Same for everyone, even people with degrees in other professions. We need to be directing our anger at energy companies and the government.

 

[Yel]

it all comes down to housing

Yep, I say this all the time on the discontent thread but the housing crisis is the everything crisis.

Everyone from Blair to Sunak should hang their head in shame that they didn't try to fix it.

 

[Polythene Pam]

As a former retail worker, I won't blow smoke up retail workers' arses. Some have become very rude, nonchalant and self righteous since the phrase "key worker" was coined. However, retail work can be physically taxing, the stock processing especially.

As you said, the two roles are in-comparible. I appreciate that nurses go to university and get qualifications, so it is right that they are paid above minimum wage. Demanding a 19% payrise though is sheer greed.

How about we all stop depicting someone as a saint for doing their job and treat everyone as equals? Because every job is challenging in different ways.

Do you really think they really want 19%? Would you open your negotiations with your final offer? It's always been a starting point and they have since said they'd be happy with the same offer they've had in Wales.
The fact remains that staffing is going to remain at a critical level unless the job is made more appealing.
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Also I think the only ones depicting anyone as saints are the ones saying nursing is a vocation and they should do it for the love of it, regardless of pay and conditions.
Nursing is a profession, a job, and it should be treated like any other.
Retail workers (and all other minimum wage earners) have actually had pretty decent pay rises from the Tories, with the introduction of the living wage and the raising of the tax free threshold. Why should public sector workers always bear the brunt of everything?

 

[judgejohndeed]

It’s about skills more than education. The university education for nursing, medicine etc is specific skills based programmes Focused at a specific job. I don’t begrudge tradesmen getting a decent wage, I can’t do their job so I need to pay them for their skills and expertise. Nurses and doctors are no different. You can’t easily replace a nurse or a doctor, just like retraining electricians etc takes considerable time and not everyone is up to the job. It’s about skills.

Yep that was basically my point. Skills =/= a degree, necessarily, so I wouldn't agree 'gradate entry jobs should have a higher salary' per se. Then personally in addition to that I also think things like risk, general working conditions, lifestyle/working pattern, physical burden etc should factor into the salary, all of which apply to nurses/doctors, but not exclusively.

 

[gigilouxx]

It’s leaving a bitter taste in peoples mouths because all these strikes seem to be about pay, RMT, Royal Mail, Doctors etc is just pay pay pay, the services for all these sectors at first glance are fucking shocking
The trains are knackered, expensive and constantly delayed
Royal Mail aren’t fit for purpose and our postie comes about twice a week
Doctors want more pay but you can’t get an appointment or
even keep your appointment without it being cancelled

Rational thought obv prevails and will show different issues contributing to this and hopefully pay rises will sort it out, but without actually looking into it all it shows to the public is that a group of people on over £30k a year during a cost of living crisis are crying poverty. I don’t even see how the unions are surprised at the amount of people being annoyed at strikes

 

[Gloria Rostron]

I can see the firefighters have accepted a 7% payrise. That seems fair to me. What do the nurses on this thread think? Is 7% reasonable?

7% is very reasonable. The greedy narcissists won't settle for that though.
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Lots prefer jig guy but where I work they

are all strikers narcissists?
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Are all strikers narcissists?

The ones demanding 19% are. As are the ones who feel the need to tell you they work for the NHS within the first sentence of conversation for self gratification are too.

 

[OnlyHereForTheLolz]

The thing is that money will never be had. If the UK makes it more difficult for the world's elite to live here they'll just up sticks and move elsewhere.

Also with the multinationals like Facebook and apple it seems to be difficult with their global operations to actually tax them at a fair rate.

The whole problem is a lot bigger than taxing wealthy individuals and corporations.

Exactly, these people don't understand economics. When the economy is shrinking and we are sliding into a recession they all want unrealistic pay rises. Say hello to lay offs

 

[Eltonjohnsflorist]

I've been hearing out of 300,000 only 10,000 striking and these were supplemented by the just stop oil mob. That union leader is on crazy money
If there wasn't Blanket media coverage idk if anyone would notice any difference
I think everyone's equally corrupt. All workers need more money and gov could do that if they stopped HS2, got rid of the 100,000 illegal albanians etc. The unions have obvs all co-ordinated the strikes. We're in the grip of the socialists, all institutions. Its wrecking the UK. There no end in sight, no leadership and labour set to be next leaders.

the nazis have arrived everyone

I mean this thread really does have it all

 

[OnlyHereForTheLolz]

I didn’t say that though.

I’ve yet to meet someone who has given me their reason for being unsupportive of the strikes who 1. Hasn’t quoted daily Mail headlines back at me, 2. Hasn’t financially profited from nurses/staff working in current conditions or 3. Isnt of the short sighted, small-minded opinion that if they have it bad, then others should also settle for having it bad.

Just my experience.

On the bright side, these individuals are in the minority as the majority of the general public support nurses striking so thats reassuring.

You did say it, I can quote it if you like. Strangely enough myself and others have posted on this thread giving reasons why we don't support the strikes.

Maybe use some of your brain power to read through the thread. There are some stupid comments on this thread from both sides.

I've heard a lot of people being unsupportive irl maybe people don't voice it to you because of your reaction

 

[Former_Antelopee]

Like the police, ICU, neonates, A&E. and other emergency care are not allowed to strike. So we aren’t all having a jolly on the picket line. I qualified many years back and lucky to leave with just a Student loan. Nursing students now have to pay tuition fees and get a student loan. so a lifetime of debt. Their uni year isn’t like others as they work year round and spend a lot on placement so really hard to get a job in between, and they come out of that at 27k & then a cap on their earnings. I’m top band five and have been for a while which means I’ll never get a payrise unless I progress to a band six, which i don’t want, or unless the government decides to pay me more. It might be a decent wage, but what comes in goes out and it’s not a fortune and things are getting more expensive and my wage is static and will not increase to reflect inflation - I depend on overtime to firefight my overdraft. I’ve no hope of a payrise and things are getting more expensive. So in hindsight instead of following a ‘vocation’ I’d have chosen another degree, a profession. Something well paid and less stress.

As I said before it’s not just nursing students who have to do placements for free to qualify? I had to do them, I just don’t want to say what I do on here. I understand it’s so hard and I guess like me nurses have to log things they do and do assignments during placement?
My mum works for the NHS and used to believe nurses should get paid/grants for doing their placements but now as she has seen it’s not just them that has to do it she has changed her mind. She still thinks nurses should get a pay rise though - it’s just the student thing she doesn’t agree with.
At the end of the day they knew that so they chose it. A lifetime of debt which isn’t really a proper debt is it? They’ll probably pay barely any of it off - I don’t. For the example on the website if on the new plan (2) and you earn £28.8k a year you’d pay £6 a month.

 

[Tui]

Speaking as a former nurse, there's definitely an element of seeing it as "women's work" and expecting therefore that's its really just cheap labour and what are they upset about.

If nursing was (or traditionally had been) dominated by men but required the same degree, years of ongoing medical training, the unsocial hours and pure physicality I guarantee it'd pay 3 times what it does.

This 100%
Although medicine, traditionally male dominated although no longer, is going the same way, with consultant pay falling in real terms by 20% over the last 10 years.

 

[Avenged7Fold]

Plenty of hard and skilled jobs have alternative routes of entry. How is suggesting that the NHS utilising on the job study and training making nursing a silly little woman’s job? Some people who want to do nursing and have the academic knowledge may not be able to go to university, Law, accounting, engineering is also hard and skilled, however there are alternative methods opposed to just university.

This is why it needs an overhaul. Nurses never used to have to be university educated, and they were still bloody excellent, capable, highly trained and skilled. Bringing back training on the job that they are paid for would probably attract a lot more candidates. Also, whoever decided to get rid of nursing homes to accommodate staff while they trained is an idiot. They were a great way of providing trainees with somewhere cheap, clean and safe to live while they trained, and no travel costs to get to work as they were onsite.
Sometimes progress isn’t actually beneficial.

 

[OnlyHereForTheLolz]

Thank god you’re not a nurse with that delightful attitude. Let’s hope if you end up needing any kind of care in hospital that you treat the staff with far more respect than you’ve shown here

Respect given where needed. Not when the attitudes on this particular thread has been what they’ve been.
The belittling of retail workers. Yeah, some very nice delightful attitudes from nurses on this thread