Nurses striking

[gigilouxx]

The only place a Tory government will claw back their 19% pay rise is raising tax on the public. That includes supermarket staff and other people like myself in retail and other lower paid roles, then it’ll be a case of us vs them for some

 

[Emsie]

Indeed there would be money from getting rid of ND status to fund pay rises and more!

At the end of the day, no one should have to strike. Anyone who works hard, full time in this country, the 6th largest economy as the Tories like to remind us, should be able to afford a house, to eat and some treats. This whole you need to budget from Tory MPs who get subsidised food, sickens me.

I really believe many of the current actions are as a result of the growing inequality in this country between the ultra wealthy and everyone else. As a country I think we need these actions as they highlight this growing disparity.

I am not badly off and I am in a fortunate position of having been able to retire early and still have a decent standard of living. (My husband still works). I hope lovely tattlers here don’t think I say that to brag, I just understand and appreciate that many people younger than me are not in that position and never will be not because they don’t work as hard as I did, but simply because of the current governments financial mismanagement and malfeasance.

(Again, I hate this government so much I tend only to read and take note of media outlets which I agree with, as I suspect most people do, but I think there is undeniable evidence in the public domain or their corruption.)

I agree with everything you've said. The Tory government is shit and I can't abide their Tory tips. Budget better, put tinfoil at the back of your radiator, turn your lights off, eat boiled eggs and bread for tea I actually don't think labour are much better either and I don't want to vote for either of them but that's another thread
My point with nurses is, I earn around the same as an average nurse. I also pay mortgage, child care costs and my own parking and I'm not at a foodbank and the argument about payrises doesn't sit comfortably with me.
If the conditions are as bad as nurses say on this thread then absolutely that needs to be addressed.... However my two visits to hospital this month do not support that claim. But I'm not there on a regular basis so...

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Literally it’s doing my head in as well. God forbid anyone other than NHS staff work hard

Mate this is what is getting on my last nerve. Do you work a 12 hour shift. Well yeah I do actually! No it's not saving lives but my work is just as important to my profession.

 

[JoeBloggs]

Someone earlier in the thread mentioned their mum works in retail for £18k a year and someone else mentioned their partner worked in retail, both used as comparisons to nurses pay.

I can see how people would struggle on £2k are you kidding? This is pre tax, then pension, NMC fees, council tax, bills, childcare which for more than one child is ££££ and many cannot rely on relatives to help out.

I’m a doctor, just paid £700 for an exam which is mandatory for me to pass to complete my training programme. If I fail I have to resit and repay til I pass. Funded from my own pocket on top £100s for my online portfolio, £500 per year for GMC, about £150 for professional indemnity insurance. Hardly anything at all is funded for health care professionals. The system.is.fucked.

The quoted figure of £2k a month was take home money, so post tax and NI. Personally childcare while is expensive it is not the same as an electric bill.

I mentioned my husband because he is a retail manager on the same pay. He has been in his career for over 10 years, he’s not striking he’s just grateful for a job. He works 40-50 hours a week for no extra pay, a poor pension and be if it. Retail jobs are not as easy to come by as you think now a days. Redundancy is always around the corner.

I fully support they are suffering but as the public we cannot change their situation, and it’s a kick in the teeth for those earning a lot less than the £33k nurse to hear them saying they cannot live on their wage.

 

[Eltonjohnsflorist]

No one wants to be a nurse anymore because there are more options open to women now. Woman don't have to aspire to be secretaries and nurses anymore.

Wtf? Nursing is a highly highly educated highly skilled professional role it’s in no way comparable to being a secretary or whatever other “little woman” job you’re comparing it to.

However I agree if it were male dominated it would pay 3x as much, as would midwifery. Theyre one of the very few professions where women excel at every level and that makes it even harder to see it disrespected

 

[Emsie]

Or could it possibly be…. A complex mixture of things that don’t fit into a nice simple box?

And no, there aren’t enough, as many, whatever you want to call it, people qualifying as nurses. Again you seem to want the simple option of zero nurses or enough. There is a shortage, there has been a shortage of people training as nurses for many years

That's not what I want. I find your attitude similar to nurses attitudes in general and it's hard to get on your side when I'm being preached to about how hard your life is because your salary hasn't risen 19 per cent.

 

[Jaceydooley]

When you’ve got a union boss talking so matter of factly that people are having chemotherapy cancelled over this and then bringing up pay I do think people can comment. The main focus on these strikes have been pay, all the signs on the pickets are about pay, if they want better working conditions then vocalise it.
People are allowed to have an opinion, the healthcare service affects all of us, not just the staff.

Yes, increase the pay and give nurses an incentive to want to work in the nhs! Therefore bettering the standards of care for patients and be able to run an efficient service!
How many people go to work and risk being prosecuted because they’ve killed somebody? How many people go to work everyday and are petrified that they are going to make a mistake that could harm somebody or kill them? Mistakes that are being made because there are not enough staff to look after the patients properly. One nurse having 10 critically unwell patients and no support-one tiny thing that can be overlooked because you are on your knees and that patient is DEAD. I’m sorry but if you work in retail or in an office,(or hundreds of other occupations), lack of staff won’t result in somebody dying. We are striking for all of you, for your families and to keep you all safe when you really need it. God knows you will one day and when that time comes you’d be bloody willing to pay ANYTHING to save yours or your loved ones life.

 

[gigilouxx]

No one’s missing a point. It’s not just on this thread, comments on news articles, twitter etc are full of snide remarks off nurses etc about lower paid staff.
So they want their pay rise, want people to support them, happy for these low paid workers to face an NI rise, alongside the cost of living skyrocketing, to pay for this payrise, but will happily make constant digs at people who, god forbid, aren’t medically trained and work in a supermarket? fuck that

 

[Happy Lady]

Nurse interviewed on the radio this morning was saying her rent was £1600 and she took home £2200.

Where governments have really failed over the last few decades is to stop house prices and rents from going out of control. They're now at criminal levels. And there's no reason for them to be this high! Speculation and greed is causing untold missery.

So many problems trace back to housing.

Just found this thread and have to say that I have never earned anywhere near take home pay of £2,200 nor needed to pay £1,600 a month rent/mortgage. I live within my means, have never (luckily) gone without or been in debt. This nurse needs to consider her finances.

There have been some very good points made in this thread that I'm still reading through. Having spent 11 years working in the NHS I think the problems need resolving with management. There are far too many Chiefs earning fat cat salaries, who can't sort out issues.

Nurses chose their profession as they are caring people who want to help others. But there are far too many "occasional" days taken training, thereby reducing staff on wards. Whilst I agree with keeping up with procedures, etc, whenever I spoke to the nurses they felt there were some who were almost bullied into undertaking more training, yet others had their training cancelled at the last minute due to staff shortages.

Overtime is crazy and contradictory. Perhaps a nurse can clarify if this still happens. Contracted work is one thing, then extra hours are worked when short staffed, up to a maximum of ?? Hours a week. However, many nurses also belong to agencies (called Bank Nurses) and also work additional hours through bank nursing - which costs the NHS even more money.

If the simple fundamentals were dealt with correctly then it would encourage more people to join the profession, retain staffing levels, keep staff happy, not overworked, whilst saving money and using it to pay nurses more.

 

[cee-bee]

I completely agree. How many in the current government and House of Lords have interests in private health care companies?
There are deliberate ploys to underfund the NHS and turn those who are outside the NHS against it so that more can be privatised. A large number of Tory MPs have interests in nursing agencies which charge huge amounts to the tax payer.

Christ I fucking hate this corrupt Tory government with all of my being. (Took Christmas Day off from my hatred but it’s after midnight now so back to hating them. Love tattlers though)

exactly, and people read the tabloid press about how the NHS is in a mess and take it at face value instead of critically thinking, who is benefitting from peddling this?

the NHS is a huge beast, huge. And inevitably some aspects will be poor or not fit for purpose or mismanaged. But this will be exacerbated by indirect attacks on it - cuts to peripheral services for example, means the NHS picks up the bill, it has a domino effect and it becomes poor value for money.

Example? paying nurses/doctors badly will give them incentives to go locum, which means the NHS ends up paying more for their staff, when a decent contract in the first please would avoid this.

properly funded social care, means that people won’t have to wait forever for a home assessment which means they don’t clog up the expensive hospital beds etc etc.

so the NHS is set up to fail and then demonised in the tabloids all while some unscrupulous characters get ready to exploit the situation through their own agencies and investments.

the tabloid press has a LOT to answer for in how it misleads the masses and there’s an element of personal responsibility to question what you read, and read from a variety of sources.

 

[Gloria Rostron]

Clearly retail is more appealing if nurses are leaving their profession to work in supermarkets. How many people are critically ill in Tescos? Many sick and dying in Sainsburys? Premature babies in Morrisons? Nah, didn't think so.

As a former retail worker, I won't blow smoke up retail workers' arses. Some have become very rude, nonchalant and self righteous since the phrase "key worker" was coined. However, retail work can be physically taxing, the stock processing especially.

As you said, the two roles are in-comparible. I appreciate that nurses go to university and get qualifications, so it is right that they are paid above minimum wage. Demanding a 19% payrise though is sheer greed.

How about we all stop depicting someone as a saint for doing their job and treat everyone as equals? Because every job is challenging in different ways.

 

[emerald]

Would like to hear from people who don't support the strike: why?

 

[struggs123]

I never clapped didn't think it was needed as the pandemic is what they were trained for. Also a lot of people are struggling not just nurses if you read further on I said they should demand more money just not in this economic climate.
Still don't agree with it.

The government betrayed healthcare workers by not adequately preparing for the pandemic. There was an exercise not long before covid which highlighted the government's lack of preparedness for a pandemic and recommended actions...which they didn't undertake. Not only did HCPs have to rapidly learn how to treat this particular virus, but also had to work without adequate protection or resource.

I'm not minimising your view that you don't support strikes or a pay rise as that's of course up to you, but the 'what they trained for' line isn't the whole story is it.

 

[judgejohndeed]

The value of the service provided by our doctors and nurses is more than what we are paying them for it .

There you go, you can say that without shitting on Aldi workers. People keep bringing up Aldi workers because the tabloids and doctors/nurses on social media keep harping on about how they'd 'earn more in Aldi' as if it's the fault or problem of Aldi workers? It's bizarre.

 

[Merpedy]

Nurses aren’t the only profession feeling the pinch - and? Why do people keep coming back to this argument? If you want to earn more unionise and strike yourselves

Not all unions are effective/good

Happened with one of the teaching unions - some mix up and communication about ballot papers with some not even getting them

Poster about the supermarket staff union which basically ignored its members by the sound of things

I think people generally have an issue with nurses putting themselves above the rest of the population in the way they talk though - people also want their issues to be recognised

 

[struggs123]

Aren’t you a little bit dramatic Honestly “betrayed” really?
Not a single country in the world were prepared despite virologists warning governments for years something like this is likely to happen.
Anyway this is what medical care workers are trained for.

Its not dramatic, your mocking shows you have no clue though so explains your ignorance. No, people don't train for a pandemic in a short staffed and inadequate health service without the correct equipment as I've said. That makes it better then that no country was prepared, let's just forget that the British government literally had it in black and white what they should to do be prepared and thought fuck it. Just because other countries invariably did similar not sure how that makes it alright- no wonder they get away with being crap if people happily accept low standards.

Again not arsed on your opinions on the strikes or healthcare professionals in general, but relating to the pandemic you're clueless.

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No I'm not but that doesn't mean I don't work hard. Comments like this is why you lose my support I don't owe you anything.
Its not just nurses using food banks! Why you acting like the cost of living crisis is only affecting your profession!

Personally I'd support anyone striking, i think the government and the private sector have been squeezing peoples wages for their own gain for many many years and its about time they were brought to task on this.

 

[onservantannie]

Why do you think it’s more of a problem in the U.K.? Isn’t it just that you wouldn’t know about the tax affairs of countries you don’t live in so you’re assuming it’s different?



What kind of shit way is this to view the world? You aren’t concerned one day when your parents get admitted to ICU and there are no nurses to look after them? That’s just tough luck hey? Zero medics? What kind of person thinks that’s in any way a realistic outcome? You sound bonkers



@JoeBloggs as an independent observer I feel
Obliged to point out you have indeed misread cee bees post.

And here lies the problem. The NHS won’t collapse if those who are unhappy with the profession leave, despite the obviously inflated opinion you have of nurses. There will be other nurses who stay for the right reasons. Nurses who don’t want to put vulnerable people at risk by striking (I know who I’d rather have looking after me). What a very high opinion you have to think that there’ll be ‘no nurses to look after people’ if the ones who aren’t happy leave Let’s clap some more pots eh?

 

[Bettyboo2475]

Having to have a degree to be a nurse and there not being financial help is a major reason for lack of nurses. I wanted to train but can’t afford it. HCAs are doing what traditionally nurses did. Lots more paperwork for nurses now. I’ve worked for the nhs for nearly 20 years and hope that the love of looking after patients is put back as priority by our government.

 

[gigilouxx]

Every single university student leaves with debt. Christ sake

 

[cee-bee]

Almost half of the people working in the nhs aren't in a medical role but execs.

im assuming by execs you mean managerial roles? Because the NHS is actually incredibly sort of managers, contrary to those “fat cat” daily Mail headlines;

Myth four: the NHS has too many managers

Recent media coverage and parliamentary debate suggests that the NHS is bureaucratic and over managed. But how many managers are there in the NHS? And are there really too many?

www.kingsfund.org.uk

December is the month Nurses take their holidays. Nhs Xmas crisis anyone?!

And? nurses need holidays? It’s a legal entitlement and necessary for a decent standard of care. Most of the U.K. workforce take holidays over Christmas. The issue isn’t that nurses get too many holidays (they don’t). The issue is the lack of staffing.

The Conservative gov have given them more money than any other party. What's happened to the billions we keep giving them? Where can we see a breakdown of what it was spent on.

By googling it.

It’s here;

NHS England » What we spend and how we spend it

NHS England » What we spend and how we spend it

www.england.nhs.uk

Obviously devolved areas will have different spending. The individual CCGs will have more specific spending but these have been transitioned into ICSs

What were clinical commissioning groups?

Learn about what clinical commissioning groups (CCGs) were, what they did and their contribution to health and care.

www.nhsconfed.org

And it’s been said multiple times in this thread, throwing money at the NHS won’t fix it or help it if peripheral services aren’t being funded properly, if
long term investments in staff aren’t being made. So how many billion the tories bumped into the NHS is irrelevant, because it was a decision based on optics and politics, not practicalities.

And which political party decided to cut peripheral, public services for over a decade..?

Nhs is a devolved business, the nhs bosses run it according to their own rules. So they're admitting they haven't been able to run a business for the past few decades so why haven't they done anything to fix it?

Wrong wrong and wrong. It’s not a “devolved buisness”, maybe you’re getting confused with the fact there are actually 4 NHSs for each of the countries within the U.K. and healthcare is a devolved matter for Scotland and NI.

they don’t “run it by their own rules” because they report to the department for health and social care, a ministerial department.. where the ministers make decisions. Not the “NHS bosses”

 

[anotheronebitesthedust.1]

But no one's pay has gone up with the cost of living crisis... This is the bit I don't get.
Everyone works hard and everyone believes they should be paid more.
I don't know anyone who has had a pay rise in line with inflation. We're all struggling not just nurses

I was making reference to saying nurses aren’t badly paid
Nurses alongside every other job profession are in the same boat , nobody’s wages are going up to reflect cost of living . Everyone is struggling , some have to look for other jobs because they can’t afford to drive every day for their job I.E community nurses . Having to pick up extra shifts losing out on family time
So why are we made out to be the bad guys and got To breaking point and said look enough is enough we are balloting and striking so we can be heard