Nurses striking

[anotheronebitesthedust.1]

I can tell you what I do
I give life saving medication that has to be drawn up to the decimal point and work out how to dilute it/give it. Be aware of current blood results and other meds incase it contradicts the need for blend. Double check all doses. Repeat this maybe 10 -15 times a shift. Manage the unit and my own patient work load, ensure all obs are done, ensure doctors are aware of any obs that are abnormal, do what I can do help fix the obs such as give analgesia, get them something to drink, ask the doctor to prescribe more fluids, hang them fluids, then recheck the obs. Update the family while I do all of this. Ensure everything is documented, move onto the next patient and repeat. I work in a&e so I do this while the managing the unit, when the triage Que starts to build up I triage up to 20 patients an hour, while managing the unit and attending to patients I was looking after earlier. Now imagine doing this and the phone starts ringing, it’s the matrons asking me to investigate incidents or speak to pharmacy/the ward/attend a meeting. Phone rings again it’s a parent who wants to change their apt or they couldn’t get prescribed med anywhere, this is now something I have to fix. But my patients in the cubicles are going to breach (be in a&e for longer the 4 hours so to meet target need to be moved to the ward) I need to phone the ward to see if their ready, they will be in 5mins, great plenty of time to sort this prescription call them back and arrange for them to pick it up. Move the patient to the ward, come back down, start breaks, triage Que is now on 20 people, it’s 10am. It’s me and one other nurse and if I’m lucky and blessed a health care assistant. That is my life every day I go to work. I think that’s should allow me to earn enough to put on my heating thank you very much
Also forgot to mention the barrage of abuse I will get while trying to do all these jobs, the ‘I pay your wages’ crowd, the ‘I’ve been here for 20 mins with a sore throat you need to get me a doctor now’ crowd. I cry most days in work now. This isn’t what I signed up and left my home country for

Oh and you forgot all the ambulances are piled up in resus getting their patients in but we can’t get anybody out of A&e onto wards because all the ward discharges can’t get home because there’s no ambulances to take them home because They’re all outside of A&e

 

[struggs123]

Absolutely they should. I’m a health worker and I work in supporting individuals with complex disabilities. We are so exhausted after the effects of Covid-19. We literally were left in homes with patients because nurses wouldn’t enter. Our responsibilities are ten fold what they used to be. We are changing PEG sites and doing complex things that some nurses are not comfortable in doing. When our residents go into hospital it’s us that go in and do 12hr 1-1 shifts to support the individuals as the nurses are too stretched. We are the nurses yet if we went on strike we would be sacked. Our pay is at the bottom of the pile and it really doesn’t reflect our responsibilities/working hours/work load. The sacrifices we make, nobody is fighting for us. If we all walked out tomorrow (everyone working in health & social care) then all those people would be put into hospital (as they all need medication and quite often complex care to survive). The hospitals would collapse. So yeah, if nurses can strike then I’m all for them. We don’t have a pin and we aren’t registered yet it’s nurses that come out to train us in the jobs we do every day. The ambulances are striking, this meant we had to do CPR in work as we had a choking incident. We had to administer oxygen and a suction machine - the paramedic arrived and said we’d done everything be would of done and then he pretty much left. All for £10 odd an hour it’s buggered - the whole system.

The only people for whom it's illegal to strike are police and armed forces, technically as long as correct process was followed it is possible that care works for the union who ran the ballot could strike. Its a lot harder because most are different private providers, there isn't a common employer so its much harder (if not impossible) to coordinate.

It is criminal how low the pay is for carers though, both in paid employment and those caring for loved ones. It's horrible that such an important and challenging role- both physically and mentally- isn't valued by society as a whole; even though the work is invaluable in reality and enhances the lives of those who recieve care. I would support any sort of pressure or push for better pay and conditions for you all, its a disgrace currently.

Thank you for all you do.

 

[onservantannie]

This comment is so uneducated and ridiculous. Oh so I trained to be a doctor or nurse now I OWE you my ‘labour’ for whatever price our snakey government think is adequate. And if I decide to make a stand you won’t respect me?! The audacity of you to bring morals and ethics into this.

As a doctor or nurse, per your comment, you are paid to do a job the same as anyone else in paid employment is. Why should nurses go on strike to basically blackmail the “snakey government” into giving them more money? Why can’t they live on their already decent salaries? Also, I’m not particularly big on respecting people who join a profession to care for the vulnerable, only to put those very same people at risk by striking. Hence, of course morals and ethics come into it!

 

[gigilouxx]

Spend a couple of days working alongside any nurse and then write this comment. You’re clueless

Why do the public need to work alongside them to have an opinion. Pat Cullens on sky now saying people have had their chemotherapy appointments etc cancelled because of this, people have every right to be pissed off

 

[gigilouxx]

Seems the cuts to social care have done a number across all sectors.
Whoever decided to cut social care, in an aging population mustn’t have the brains they were born with
I’m convinced these politicians are either thick or just sickeningly greedy

 

[intheindustry]

People will hate me for this probably. But you chose to have a child so why should that be taken into account? Loads of people get paid similar to nurses and have children.
We were actually talking about this in my job this week. The full time staff where I work get 29.5k a year and one person was saying 2/3rd of their monthly wage goes on childcare.
It’s not just this that makes me think parents are entitled sometimes, it’s the wanting Christmas of as they have a child or what’s happening in my job at the moment with the parents always being late and the manager saying it’s because they have kids. Kids shouldn’t be an excuse, everyone else has a life as well .

Absolutely. Can you imagine going to your boss asking for a pay rise because you are a family of 6 and need more money. It’s your choice to have 4 children and subsequently you can’t expect your employer to pay you more because you want or need more. The person without children or only - shouldn’t get less. Life choices and all that!
---

Trouble is we live in a nanny state, the government at times bail out all too often.
Imagine going to a cashpoint and want money out of a machine for a bank you don’t actually bank with.
The NHS has financial problems, a lot of public sector feel underpaid and undervalued but the problem is the government are using tax payers money giving giving giving and maybe that are taking out don’t technically pay in. Goodwill is a lovely quality to have but the uk can’t keep up with its generosity and can’t distribute their revenue fairly or with any logic.
The whole point of a recession is to curb spending and subsequently unless you are rich beyond rich you’ll feel the impact. Nurses aren’t the only profession feeling the pinch. My husband is private sector but we are cutting back according to his “pay cut” along with cutting back due to the cost of living so I’m considering meals differently, eating out less, I’m driving hubby to work to save on parking costs. We all have to be a grown up.
I know a nurse, quibbling over costs yet her lifestyle isn’t changing, she’s still doing waitrose food shops and going on holiday.

 

[Blond3g1rl]

The thing is people will do this. They will do what is best for them and their families. People will leave nursing completely or move abroad. And then we lose a nurse we can’t easily replace. Who is going to staff the NHS then? How can people not see the problem here?

No one goes into nursing to get rich. People go into it because they want to nurse. Those people will go into nursing regardless of pay.

 

[gigilouxx]

I’d say it’s just the Cuntservatives but Labour as bad, I live in Angela Raynors constituency and I’n sure she expensed a £9.60 phone bill. Whilst on £80k a year

 

[Blond3g1rl]

the official business term from multiple sources is " Any yearly pay rise at or below the current rate of inflation is, in real money terms, a pay cut "

I work in an industry where a pay cut is a reduction of gross pay, I.e a reduction in salary grade. A salary not keeping up with inflation is a stagnating salary.

 

[cee-bee]

Government have a month to discuss pay again before we strike again twice end of January

likewise, I feel most sensible people know that by fighting for better conditions for themselves nurses are making health care safer for everyone.

 

[Tui]

Who reads the RCN but people belonging to the union. Maybe ask them to publicly say these things not just claim it to their members.

You really have issues with ithers by your condescending manner. If it’s even true that you are a Dr I wouldn’t be surprised if you get struck off.

Anyway why did the thread title change? I wouodn’t bother with a thread for nurses striking.
We were asked our opinions on the matter

Lol you have to do a lot more to get struck off than be bit snarky online. I'm actually very nice but tired of reading 26 pages of the same tropes about 'if you don't like it leave' 'whats wrong with working in Aldi' (nothing) and 'lots of people are low paid so why are they a special case'

 

[gigilouxx]

To be honest there is little comparison between a retail worker and a nurse. Nurses are degree educated, skilled professionals, and the pay structure absolutely does not reflect the diversity of the modern nursing profession and the complexity of modern medical practice. Nurses are also a captive workforce, there are few opportunities to work as a nurse outside of the NHS, although they exist they are limited and not comparable to NHS work. Ultimately the government needs nurses, doctors, paramedics etc and needs to be prepared to pay for them and if those professional groups feel they are not being paid properly then the pay of other groups like retail workers is totally irrelevant.
Working conditions for NHS staff are absolutely fucking awful right now and if you haven’t experienced it yourself I honestly don’t think many can imagine it. Retail work is grim too but it just does not compare and ultimately if you don’t like working for one company you can leave but the NHS is shit everywhere. Changing those conditions is not going to happen overnight whereas pay *restoration* could, because what nurses are asking for is effectively pay restoration for 10-12 years of pay degradation. Who is going to want to be a nurse right now? Hospitals are dangerous places to be.

I get what you’re saying 100%
Their pay is shit, their working conditions are abysmal and this the state of the NHS has been like death of a thousand cuts.
However, where I think what they do is amazing and it must be hell on earth on some of those wards I find it hard, in the current climate hearing how someone earning over 2k per month “can’t live” yet millions have to, some peoples wages are so shit they can’t exist never mind live. No one’s compared low paid retail workers etc to nurses, but to say their wages aren’t relevant can’t be right surely? Those retail workers could be the next drive of nurses, however they stay in retail because they need to for childcare etc.
Those lower paid jobs are gonna be the ones footing the bill with the rise of NI to cover the NHS 19% increase or whatever the agreed amount is. If the government try clawing it back from the big cats they’ll move like Lewis Hamilton and take all their stuff to a tax haven, half of these big businesses owners will have fingers in all sorts of pies and they’ll be movin money all over the place. People on low wages won’t be able to afford the NI increase to pay NHS wages.

I genuinely do not think striking is gonna change anything, the whole systems fucked alongside the government and unless there’s a complete erase and start over in all aspects, housing, education, healthcare etc there problems just gonna move around.

It’s been like an ep of black mirror this past 2 years!

 

[Gloria Rostron]

Unfortunately because the nature of a health service is to produce health outcomes and not money, the value of it is not appreciated.

Minimum wage is just over £20,000 and nurses get paid £33,000 (based on full time working) per year. That is £13,000 worth of appreciation.

 

[Tui]

And here lies the problem. The NHS won’t collapse if those who are unhappy with the profession leave, despite the obviously inflated opinion you have of nurses. There will be other nurses who stay for the right reasons. Nurses who don’t want to put vulnerable people at risk by striking (I know who I’d rather have looking after me). What a very high opinion you have to think that there’ll be ‘no nurses to look after people’ if the ones who aren’t happy leave Let’s clap some more pots eh?

Honestly I can’t even

Do you have any concept at all of what it is like in hospitals right now? When I was in uni 10 years ago nurse to patient ratios on the wards were usually 1:4. It’s now more like 1:8 or even 1:12, or even more at night time, sometimes just one or two nurses covering a full ward of patients overnight. Do you have any idea how dangerous that is?? There are 40,000 vacant nurses posts. We can’t afford to lose any more nurses. There will not “always be nurses” what are you talking about?

I applied to do nursing at university 3 years ago and sadly despite having all the UCAS points and them loving me in the interview I didn't get on due to not getting the Maths grade required because of the stupid predicted grades nonsense during covid. Many people I know ended up in the same boat and either just gave up or like me went onto another course whilst we waited to be able to do the Maths that is required for the course.

My university said that a whole load of nursing students were lost due to covid and the predicted grades that no one could do anything about and since then the UCAS tarrifs have gone up, I even did nursing for health professionals but that still wasn't enough. I'd be nearly qualified by now if I'd been able to do the degree, but unfortunately covid messed alot up for potential nursing students.

I've reapplied but there are such a small amount of spaces for each degree and university its hard even to know if you'll be offered a place.

It’s worth keeping trying if you want to do it. I have a friend who had to quit her nursing degree as she couldn’t manage the mathematics portion for drug calcs etc, she has since re entered nursing and is about to qualify. She will be a fantastic nurse.

 

[Avenged7Fold]

Maybe an unpopular opinion but one thing I don’t agree with is student nurses thinking they should be paid for training work. They aren’t the only ones who have to work to qualify for their degree. It’s horrible having to work for free obviously but whenever I see student nurses post about it they always make out it’s only them that has to do it. Imo it should be the people who supervise/train them that get paid more.

If they went back to the old system, student nurses would be paid and would be viewed as a valuable part of making up staff numbers like they used to be.
When I was in my second year of training in the late 70s we were so short staffed that they put my intake on nights. I was on a 28 bed surgical ward on my own, my friend was on the ward opposite and we had a sister running between to do the drugs
No one died that we didn’t expect to, everyone got their obs done and was cared for. It was ridiculously busy, and definitely wouldn’t be deemed safe now, but we did it and I think it made me the confident and capable person I am now.
I went straight from qualifying to my first job in charge of a medical ward with a couple of students and an auxiliary nurse. It was a baptism of fire, but I enjoyed every minute mostly.
Nursing has changed so much. I didn’t look on it as a career, to me it was a vocation and I didn’t want to be stuck in the office, so I stayed as a general nurse until I had kids and never went back

 

[Warriorqueen]

Soooo everyone gets more money in the recently announced pay deal. What about the shocking conditions, stress, burn out etc, what’s being done about them ?

Everyone gets a lump sum and a pathetic insult of a rise that still remains a pay cut. I know what I’ll be voting. Sorry, I want this over too but I’m standing my ground.

 

[Gloria Rostron]

What do you expect them to do? The government won't even come to the table to negotiate. The union offered to suspend the last lot of strikes if the government agreed to talk. They rejected the offer. Have you any idea what the NHS is like now? In my area, most hospital referrals have a waiting time of at least a year. A year just to see a specialist! Minimum 12 hour waits in A&E. My friends grandad fell down the stairs last month. By the time the ambulance arrived, 14 hours later, he was dead. This isn't just a winter crisis, this is the NHS, full stop. One of my children has a condition which would require a category 1/2 ambulance response should anything happen. This is a first world country. We should not even be worrying that an ambulance may not arrive until an hour or more after an emergency call is made.

It will only get worse if pay, conditions, retention and recruitment are not improved. Yes, people will most likely die as a result of the strikes. But the government is happy with that because they'll lay the blame, as ever, at the feet of the medical professionals. The other devolved nation governments have managed it, why not ours? The strikes will continue, more people will die because the government is hell bent on painting the nurses out to be the bad guys. The government always has money to throw around - to bail out banks because of their preposterous budget, for their backhanders and cronies, for overseas wars, for furlough, the billions on HS2, but they won't even come to the table and discuss the NHS crisis - something that affects every single person in this country (except them of course, with their private health care).

They want the NHS to fail, and they want the medical professionals to be vilified. They have constantly used the media to whip up animosity amongst the public, and I love that people aren't falling for it this time.

I would say the next election can't come soon enough. Wes Streeting is not the man for the job,but anything is better than the current lot.

Exposure is what they could do. Film the conditions, get Dispatches to do a feature on it for Channel 4, or Panorama. Shame the government. Look at what the exposure of black mould in council houses has done. The man in charge in Wigan was sacked when the press started making a fuss.

Striking will only cause a further backlog to patients. The waiting times will increase.

 

[JoeBloggs]

100% mortgages would put a lot of these buy to let slumlords out of business overnight and can’t come soon enough in my book

The only way these could come back is with stringent check which would rule out a lot of people. This was part of the cause of the 2008 crash as they over lended to people.

I don’t think they are saying they can’t live on it but what they have to do for that money isn’t worth it…as a graduate salary for a person with 10 years of experience £33k is crap…plus of course many nurses leave nursing to go work at Aldi and Lidl because the hourly rate and shift pattern is far easier to live with

But it is becoming increasingly difficult to manage on that money, especially if you have little kids

I disagree, I am 9 years out of uni and I don't know many people my age who earn more than this and they are not in the NHS. You do not go into nursing thinking it is going to make you a fortune.

While I agree with it's hard if live in an expensive area or have kids but sorry there are options, someone on £33,000 even as a single person isn't doing too badly and this is what is getting the publics backs up. On £16-18,000 then yes but not over £30k.

 

[struggs123]

I can’t help but feel that the lack of negotiation is a tactic by the government in order to drag out the pay dispute. That way they hope that public support will fade.

Absolutely, i think a lot of the public dont care anyway though tbh. I think a lot want a functioning and accessible free at point of use health service, but don't want to support the people who make that happen. It's nothing without the staff. The government can buy the fanciest equipment and buildings but without the suitably qualified and experienced healthcare staff people are still not going to receive any/an acceptable level of care. I suspect a lot of the public aren't arsed until they need healthcare and then complain about the long waits and level of care.

Also agree about sometimes prolonging life to no one's benefit but just because we can. Doesn't always mean we should.

 

[intheindustry]

That's the same private sector that funds nurses with taxation money.

The higher the increase the government offer the more taxpayers will have to contribute. The money doesn’t come from a money tree. Yes my husband is in the private sector but even private companies have to cut their cloth accordingly and if revenue isn’t there then salaries can’t be increased. My husband works long hours, pays a fortune towards parking, rail fares, pays for his lunches, is often treated like crap from the top with immense pressure. He just doesn’t strike or throw a wobbly. By not getting a pay rise he has simply had his pay reduced given inflation is extortionate and we’ve had to cut out cloth accordingly.
Don’t get me wrong I’m sympathetic but I’m just not sure striking is helpful and I don’t know how the government can possibly consider such an increase in pay and adjustments to working conditions. Once you do one public sector then all will need reviewing and before we know it the minimum wage for everything is increased. Eventually we’ll have low skilled workers earning 100k a year . Where do we drawer the line.