i.e. you read it on a forum!
and one of your quoted sources thinks she read it on a forum!
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and one of your quoted sources thinks she read it on a forum!
My gigantic distaste for the Esther committed suicide concept is due to NPD knowledge:
- NPD victims keep fighting to survive. They don't actually THINK about their needs much or prioritise them. That's why they get stuck! If only they did prioritise their own feelings, or wallow or seek a swift exit (excluding death). But they don't! This is the game.
Victims are perfect fuel for parasites. Victims keep going.
- Examples have been given to me of people (not NPD victims) who chose to exit the world. I respect their choices. And it requires courage to take that step.
- I should redefine what I term STRENGTH. Resilience is the word I should have used. The ability to get up & go on when your heart and or life has been shattered. That is beyond strength BUT it is a Catch22.
Resilient people like Esther are the favourite yo-yos of NPD abusers.
.......... NPD expert ....
The best teacher about NPD is HG Tudor. Just read all the comments on his youtube channel. Most commenters thank him for saving their lives.
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Although he revealed some Esther communications, he revealed zero of his own. I would venture to bet there are hundreds of hoovering communications from thingummyjig to Esther in those last days.
I can't prove it, but a number of people have been talking about it on WebSleuths and some of them were following her social media accounts well before this tragedy occurred - maybe they are all lying but I doubt it. It has also been claimed that there has been some "sanitising" going on of those social media accounts recently too. As someone who only came to their journey after her disappearance I can't say for sure.
What I can say for sure is that there is a ton of evidence including a witness right before her death and comments from the Police saying the relationship was in trouble, this is also supported by a ton of circumstantial evidence - and yet Mr. Colegate dismisses it all as lies !
The arrogance of that is a huge red flag...
I'm just trying to be clear about what we know and what we don't know. We all have opinions about this subject, but calling them facts doesn't help make things clearer.
I'm new to this forum, and newish to WS, but one thing that strikes me here (more than there) is the degree to which there seems to be an echo chamber in operation: people repeating things that other people have said as if they were facts, rather than opinions. That can't be helpful when it comes to trying to understand what happened and why.
We shouldn't be afraid to say "we don't know".
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I think that's a good example of what I'm describing. You're so wrapped up in one point of view that you're ready to believe that anyone who disagrees with you is being dishonest.
Agree. RAGE. Nothing to do with happiness.
Revealing video about what happens when you break up with a narcissist. What it's like to break up with a narcissist
It's VERY CLEAR to me he's at least one poster on this forum. All it takes is analyzing the writing style. Plus, the comments echo exactly Dan's branding and PR. No critical thinker would treat his statements as truth, since the police have made clear what he brands is not reality. There has been shade in almost every police statement from the beginning, from the lie about the status of the relationship, to the categorizing of Esther as "experienced", to the BS about the quality of the footwear, to the BS about his insistence that there was only one way Esther could have gone, despite her plan to the contrary. SAR indicated at the very beginning they didn't follow Dan's itinerary, since they search even up to the Maladeta Glacier.
Plus, everyone knows Dan contaminated the search site, correct? He stayed in the Refuge? He walked over and over the trails from the very beginning, depositing his detritus hither and yon. Volunteers are overtly disinvited from searches in the first rounds. There is an additional reason SAR is adamant family members not intervene in searches. Their close contact with the missing person means they carry that persons DNA and sprinkle it all over the search area. This makes dogs irrelevant.
What's with the stains? Did they get in an argument in the Gite that resulted in Esther splattering blood? From something Dan caused? Was he cleaning up the site where the remains were found? She bloodied the tent?
Also, the script on the second piece looks very different from the first. Does anyone do handwriting analysis?
Dan is obsessed with craving and eating. The food metaphors creep me out; he consumed Esther and left her hollow. But he's making it all about himself eating. It brings to mind how many selfies he has of him eating brown gunk, and poor Esther having nothing to eat on her backpacking trips, but whatever it was, it was the opposite of gunk, crisp and colorful.
To tell you the truth, the first thing I did when I saw these ditties was to look them up to see if they'd been plagiarised. They're like Hallmark cards of aggressive self-pity. Blech. Even the rhymes and rhythms sound like Hallmark cards. But then, the contents are all twisted.
You seem to be discrediting poster's observations—based on police statements, looking at SM, seeing what Dan does and says—by dubbing them productions of an "echo chamber". Yes, many posters—and media—are making the same observations. That doesn't mean they are echoing one another. It simply means the same red flags are obvious to many people. And they aren't allowing themselves to be swayed by testimonials in PR documents; it's called having critical thinking skills.
On the other hand, it seems to me, posts like yours appear to echo Dan's branding to the letter, when we know there are significant gaps with fact as well as lacuna in the timeline and communications. They even reproduce the style and vocabulary of the applicable PR statements. More red flags.
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Snipped.
Paradoxically, narcissists think of themselves as victims and act accordingly.
Hmmmm..... I haven't read that @SummerSky believes that everyone who disagrees with him/her is dishonest, just one or several posters. I haven't seen the word "dishonest" anywhere, actually. It seems to me it was more about aligning too perfectly with Dan's PR.
I had some more thoughts on stains, with reference to thingummyjig's poem, where Dan sees himself as stained by Esther's absence. It has a rich history of meanings.
1. there might very well be a literal reference here; guessing may be needed
2. staining has some ancient and universal associations:
a. the martyrdom of saints and Jesus on the cross; Dan thinks he's the ultimate victim
b. the mortification of saints/monks/nuns by flagellation, etc.: Dan has beaten himself up trying to find Esther, ain't he true perfection, unworldly almost; destined for a significant spot in heaven, commended by all and sundry 'til the end of time
c. blood is associated with rape and loss of virginity; this is a violent association
d. the risk of blood spatter is associated with women's menses; almost universally men overtly or covertly consider women offensive and defiling (to them); often they are isolated from families (sometimes into unsafe and brutal conditions) during this time lest they infect the household and their mates. Women are considered repellent. Cf. how Dan describes Esther as repellent.
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The last line of his 3rd poem:
"We say we want love but are addicted to hate".
Pity the BBC never asked him about that!
I realise that you have assembled here a crack team of armchair detectives, but even still, they will have a hard time analysing the "handwriting" of a font.
Well, I'm definitely not Dan, and it looks to me as if some posters are ignoring what is actually KNOWN in favour of twisting any comment or opinion into a case against Dan. A bad feeling about someone is NOT evidence, and making a psychological diagnosis of someone you've never met is NOT a reason to claim they're guilty of murder.
If there's evidence, law enforcement will find it. Don't rely on what's printed in the Sun!
Not sure why you are quoting me as though my post involved you?
To me the “want you here when you’re gone, want space when you’re here” stuff sounds like he’s got an avoidant attachment style. It’s pretty characteristic of it and doesn’t necessarily mean he’s got NPD. However it is wrong that he’s putting it on Instagram for everyone to see and know about their relationship, especially if he was putting it there without talking to Esther about it. I think it’s mega weird tbh but realistically baiting out all their relationship secrets for the sake of “art” and personal expression is something 90% of male singer songwriters & poets do.
Him not featuring her on his Insta is odd, but maybe it makes it harder for his followers to associate the poetry with Esther - he would feel like a mug if more people were asking if it was about Esther I think.
I do think it’s really weird that all these new accounts are popping up discussing it though. I can’t imagine making an account just to discuss one specific case on a completely new website
Him not featuring her on his Insta is odd, but maybe it makes it harder for his followers to associate the poetry with Esther - he would feel like a mug if more people were asking if it was about Esther I think.
I do think it’s really weird that all these new accounts are popping up discussing it though. I can’t imagine making an account just to discuss one specific case on a completely new website
This whole thread is very‘un-tattle‘ in its tone- very strange but fascinating! It’s usually just light gossip- these posters are like full-time private detectives 
Fair play to yous all I enjoy reading all the different theories.
I particularly enjoyed @MourningDove who took the time to compile a timeline of where their litter of dogs ended up over the course of several years - top tattling to you Sir/Madam!
Fair play to yous all I enjoy reading all the different theories.I particularly enjoyed @MourningDove who took the time to compile a timeline of where their litter of dogs ended up over the course of several years - top tattling to you Sir/Madam!
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I've just read Dan's poems. Of course, poetry can be read any manner of ways. Just unsettling. Dan doesn't exactly help himself with his manner, even if he is completely innocent or not. I am just reminded of poor Esther in those 3 lost days, cold, hungry and totally alone. If Dan is on these forums, he could practice a little humility and respect for a woman who has passed away in truly god awful conditions.
DC is a bad poet! I think we can all agree about that.
... or filled with joy in the mountains she clearly loved, dying suddenly of an accidental fall.
Do you really think it's likely he reads any of this?
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I think it's because Tattle is almost the only place on the web where people can freely discuss Esther's disappearance. Youtubers aren't really doing anything on the tragedy (vs huge interest in Summer Wells), Twitter is quiet. Tattle is really it.