Michael Jackson

[Youtubegossip]

Im sure it was all his step dads doing. Didnt he come out and say his dad made him lie about it all

How can you lie about the underside of a mans penis - who when checked matched the description - apparently there were marks where it had been bleached etc that you wouldn't know unless you saw it?

 

[Sir Lancelot]

I listen to all sorts really, my favourite artists being Queen, Abba, The Beatles, Nirvana, Foo Fighters, Rolling stones, Lost Prophets, Aerosmith, you name it, a huge variety.

I'm putting this down to being a very poor trolling attempt; if you can't listen to Michael Jackson but do listen to Lost Prophets... sheesh.

It's bad enough that you'll listen to the Stones and Aerosmith without any problems, but Lost Prophets? Ok.

 

[AllSeeingEye123]

They left out all the scandal so it's not a real life biography. It's telling Paris won't go to any of the premieres.

 

[shellie]

Suppose it makes sense

He groomed them. Offering this and that for them to be awed over while he did what he did. I'm not excusing them or absolving them of blame because as an adult you know if something is too good to be true, it usually is but he knew exactly what he was doing...picking people who had nothing and offering them the world only to throw them out when he was done and move on to the next family.

 

[Reality_tv_lover]

I remember in the first documentary when at least one of them said that they had no relationship with their parent(s) any more, I just thought, 'yeah, that tracks'. The very idea of letting your kid have 'sleepovers' with an adult stranger, what the fuck. Did all the holidays and gifts make them lose all common sense?!

Clearly did that's awful imagine seeling your child's innocence for free holidays and gifts they should all be investigated

 

[Tuesdaysdoll14]

I doubt they were up having a party in the court room, I think anyone would find it had not to have a little seat dance to most music.
I didnt realise the documentary was played as evidence, surely they should have shown unedited footage that was concerning if they had to show anything related to Martin Bashier

Really? You think anyone would find that hard during a child sex abuse case? So if you end up on the jury of a rape case but they play a little bit of MJ you’re gonna dance are you?

 

[shellie]

The thing is though he was investigated very heavily I believe on numerous occasions yet nothing was found to even attempt to charge him.

If there was any truth to any of it wouldn't it have at least come out after his death? Like if it was a Jimmy Saville scenario he was protected by higher ups I mean

There is confusion about the FBI investigating him with many thinking it was a year's long thing when it only happened for a year or so at a time (93-94 and 04-05) and it wasn't a solo FBI investigation and more of them giving assistance to the police during the years stated. So, while there was no 'proof' he did it in those years mentioned, there were many years he wasn't being investigated so it was possible he did do things he was accused of.

Surprisingly, many of his fans (the ones who don't think he was God) refuse to quote the FBI files when claiming his innocence as while some files were released, over three hundred were redacted and no one knows what was on them. Add that to everything that's come out the last few years about the FBI and how many were caught taking bribes at the time (many think he was tipped off about being watched), I honestly wouldn't be surprised if he threw money at them to look the other way.

According to the new documentary, he paid off a tomboy girl in the 1980s, he paid off the housekeepers son, he paid off Jordy Chandler, another boy was willing to testify but dropped out when Jordy wouldn't testify, there was the boy who appeared in the documentary that resulted in the criminal case and now Wade and James.

If this was the guy living at the end of your street, you'd be starting a petition to get him moved!!!

Man in the mirror is one of my favourite songs but I struggle to listen to it now.

The housekeeper has come out a few times saying she saw things. Of course, even back then she was called everything under the sun with many saying 'she took money to keep quiet so shouldn't be believed' not realising their Freudian slips when trolling her.

I'm one of those people who can't separate songs from artists and like you loved MITM as well as a lot of his earlier stuff like She's Out of My Life, Got to Be There and One Day in Your Life among others, squealing along to him as a kid thinking how talented he was. I was a teenager when he was first accused and that was when I started to step back from his music. It was too close as I had been abused myself for years and finally told just a few months before it all came out. After that, listening to them was always marred because I remembered what he did to the children which then brought back memories for me, and it was too much. It was the same with R Kelly, Aerosmith, Diddy, and any others accused of it. I'm not calling out those who can separate as it's none of my business but personally...no.

 

[Prince fan 1999]

I actually don't think he did abuse the celebrity kids, or at least not all of them, because then he had credible people to defend him.

A lot of his supporters use Culkin's defence of him as "proof" he never did anything.

Culkin's family were already well off so MJ wasn't able to buy their silence. That's why he never did anything to him. He knew what he was doing. He was very calculated.

 

[Libertine1975]

Iv said on here before, there wasn't a bigger MJ fan than me- I even named my son after him. When I was little I never believed the allegations, however since I became a mum and iv got older I have changed my view on some things. I now look at his need and desire to hang around with so many kids as really concerning and unhealthy. But then I do stop and think about his own upbringing. He was born in Gary Indiana, and the house he shared with all his brothers and sisters only had 2 bedrooms. They shared beds and so his memories of his 'normal' childhood would have held this core memory, hence his insistence on sharing a bed being 'normal' I feel sorry for Michael as a little boy because he was a little boy that should have been protected, like most children stars. But instead he was beaten by his dad, forced to be the perfect performer, dragged around sketchy clubs and then sold to the highest bidders. He didnt have peers around him to have a benchmark for social development, he was around older men in the music business. Men with money and power, who promised him 'i can make you the biggest star' ...He was a little black boy in a country and time that was still dealing with racism quite heavily. Iv always believed that he most probably was sexually abused as a child- and I think as he entered his later teenage years his hormones and trauma of that caused him to be withdrawn and developed his 'weirdness' that we see in later life. He obviously never dealt with the trauma and because he became so powerful and wealthy he did what he wanted and there was no one there for him to answer to. And because of his success from an early age I really don't think we can compare him to a normal person. He was the most famous man on earth, reclusive and surrounded by sycophants. Can you imagine how this develops your personality? He would have been a raging narcissist for a start. And I think that unfortunately, all of these issues and his arrested development were displayed in his weirdness.i also think his skin disorder and his plastic surgery made his outer appearance seem just as bizzare as his personality which didn't help the public to understand him. We couldn't understand him because he was so far removed from our own lives.
But my heart breaks for that little boy that he once was. If we can have sympathy for his alleged victims, surely we must extend our sympathy to him as a little boy. They were all victims.
Do I think he was a PDF? I think he always displayed red flags, you would be silly to think he didn't. There's no way I'd have allowed my son around him. Did he act on his PDF feelings? Again, who knows. I wasnt there. I don't find many of his accusers credible- there are too many holes jn their testimony and they always seem to go after the money. If someone came out who didn't have anything to gain financially then I would find that more concerning. I never liked his protestations that he 'never hurt a child' I'd have much preferred him to say 'I never sexually abused a child' and I always felt it quite telling that he was so emphatic with that statement 'I would kill myself before I hurt a child' because I believe he was being truthful here, he wouldn't ever physically hurt a child. It's almost like an admission of guilt in his denial. Because he doesn't actually address the sexual allegations does he? I'd love to see a statement analysis on his denials.
I think he made terrible decisions and had no emotional intelligence, he just acted like a grown toddler who demanded everything his own way. He didn't like to be told no.
If he was a PDF I dont think he ever believed he was one, I think he was in denial of a lot of things in his life. I find it sad that the most famous black man in the world, who paved the way for so many black artists ended up drug addicted and died as a result of it. Its the same story all over the world now....look at skid row...thousands upon thousands of men and women, who had abuse in childhood, who live and die for their next fix....Michael was just the same. Joe Jackson wanted so much more for his son, but look where he ended up.

I think you and I have a similar opinion on the matter. I don't feel like he did anything but I can't also say he was innocent.

There are a lot of things that don't add up with the accusers and there are major credibility issues with most of them from what I have seen.

I try and look at a wide range of sources and not just things that defend MJ.

There is a clip with the 2005 accuser Gavin where he says about sleeping in Michael's bed and Michael does say that he (Michael) slept on the floor.

Ultimately we will never know for sure what did and didn't happen.

 

[Abominatrix]

Jafar really came into it during the Thriller and Bad eras. His dancing and mannerisms were incredible. The guy playing Joseph was really good too. I may have to see it again...

Those are the best era for MJ, anyway. He still looked human and wasn't grabbing his dick all the time in his performances.

Definitely going to see it myself, I do so love that crappy The Jacksons: an American Dream or whatever that VH1 mini-series was called. Fascinating family, giant mess that they often are.

 

[Ivegone]

I think we should separate private and professional you can hate the arse of someone but still admire their music
There's loads of artists who are tainted but have brilliant music

 

[Prince fan 1999]

I cannot listen to his music because he was a pedalo. He paraded his favorite child stars around like trophies. I also feel he messed with Lisa Marie Presleys son.

You can't throw around accusations because of a feeling you have FFS Jesus Christ

 

[Dexy]

I can understand both sides of this, but for those just condemning Jackson based on the Leaving Neverland documentary- would you please watch the Square One documentary posted? It makes for a fairer picture overall. It's filled with facts whilst the former is purposefully leading people by emotions in the absence of hard facts. Both of them together provide a clearer picture.

The other thing to note (which I think others have mentioned before me) is that MJ was investigated 20 times (or some such insane number) by the FBI but they found absolutely nothing incriminating against him and said so repeatedly.
It's not like Weinstein where the local police and press were on his payroll and covered up for him (I think I read that tidbit in 'Catch and Kill'). This wasn't a coverup by a local police station (because none of the accusers or their families ever informed the police or filed a criminal case against Jackson). This was various departments in the FBI each coming up empty when they raided MJ and his family's homes repeatedly.

Guilty or innocent, nobody will know for sure, and I'm not trying to convince anyone. I was swayed by the documentary and then found the facts to mostly be proven false. I appreciate a counter documentary that aims to present a more factually researched picture of what occurred (and since this is a "documentary" and not fiction, I am shocked that Leaving Neverland didn't get fact checked).

You’re like me. You’ve done your research I see and there is just so much that doesn’t add up. There was something like 60 lies found in that “documentary “ hit piece. So anyone can be tried and convicted on two charlatans bad acting now? Disturbing and graphic accounts do not make for evidence and facts. He went through court and they found nothing. He wasn’t even in the same country when one of the man claim abuse happened. They also only went public with their allegations after the stature of limitations were up so they couldn’t get done for purgery and lying under oath.
The media have loved to peddle the narrative. Oprah Winfrey, got the “victims” on her show and watched LN on a boat on her birthday ( who does that ??) . Someone who then turns out to be best friends with Harvey Weinstein and lined up girls for Harvey to sexually abuse. Call me daft but I do believe that MJ knew too much about what was going on in Hollywood and that’s why they tried to pin it on him. He was used as a scapegoat for the likes of all the pedophiles coming out now.

 

[PineappleQueen19]

I had no idea Jackson took inspiration from this 1974 film. It’s uncanny to see.

 

[shellie]

But he never got away? And wasn’t hiding in plain sight like Saville - the conversation has been ongoing for years, he went to court, he went under the FBI investigations multiple times, he was never convicted.

He has been in the public court of law for 33 years and it will never ever end because as the public we see him generally as guilty because it’s hard to fathom why a grown ass man was having sleep overs and giving minors alcohol etc. It’s all layers of messed up but he never got away with anything really, he was done and over since that first case. The only thing people want now is millions of dollars, but these families were fine with shipping their kids off to him though at the time… like I know grooming is a thing but come on, really letting a grown man be alone and share a bed with your child. They wanted his money, the parents of these children who are suing should also be cross examined if these go to court.

Being investigated by the FBII doesn't mean much They claimed to fully investigate Epstein and claimed there was no proof he was trafficking girls to others yet we have now found out it was worse than was even suspected. They have also had countless agents over the years end up in court and jailed, including those high up because they took bribes to look the other way.

I agree it's wrong to let your child sleep in a bed with a strange adult but if you are gonna call out the parents then you sure as hell should be calling the person who thinks it's alright to do it...the same person who as soon as they passed a certain age, threw them and their parents out with the trash and found some more younger ones and started the cycle again. He gets far too many allowances that others wouldn't because of who he. Paris said it perfectly when she said people have this fantasy of him but that's all it is as the Michael he showed and the real Michael behind closed doors were two completely different people. His fans know the Michael he showed the world, they don't know the person he became when doors were shut and everyone left.

 

[Prodcon21]

I just think that once a person is dead it should be laid to rest.

Sorry - but That Is such an awful attitude to have.

 

[Prince fan 1999]

They left out all the scandal so it's not a real life biography. It's telling Paris won't go to any of the premieres.

Jeez,how many times now? The movie only goes up to 1988. BEFORE the allegations.

 

[Dexy]

People are starting to notice every time there is something MJ lucrative there’s media slander and some sort of law suit/grifter asking for money. There is a definite pattern.

1993 – Chandler allegations: Emerged during the Dangerous Tour, at a time when the tour was generating massive revenue and Michael Jackson was consolidating control over his catalog assets.

2003 – Arvizo allegations: Surfaced as Jackson was preparing the Number Ones compilation and negotiating his exit from Sony, positioning himself for independent monetization of his catalog as a free agent.

2013–2014 – Robson and Safechuck civil filings: Filed amid a surge in posthumous estate revenue, with Cirque du Soleil shows running and catalog valuation rising toward the eventual $750 million Sony buyout.

2019 – Leaving Neverland: Released as the estate was preparing a Broadway musical and finalizing the latter phase of the Sony/ATV transaction.

2026 – Cascio lawsuit: Surfaced the same weekend Lionsgate released the estate-partnered biopic, which was projected to significantly boost catalog interest and merchandising.

Also Leaving Neverland rushed into Toronto film festival the day Harvey Weinsteins trial started.

 

[Upintheair83]

I am. He wasn’t a paedophile. A bit odd yes, but not a sexual abuser.

So what would you call having boys as young as 8 sleep in a bed with you? Put aside any of the sexual abuse allegations and I’m sure anybody on this site will agree having a boy of that age in your bed is disgusting. And that is PROVEN. That isn’t “odd”..it’s abuse, abuse of his status and power..and fucking disgusting. I don’t get how so many people believe every other allegation, but when it comes to MJ people continue to support him. Whilst the stories of some of the accusers may not be “perfect”, these are people discussing highly traumatic experiences. And the two people discussed in this thread and in the documentary were not the only two, do your research.

Iv done my research over years....Well the first accusation, Jordan Chandler - if you do your research with that one, his dad, Evan, wanted to ‘get as much money out of Michael Jackson’ (his own words) the markings that Jordan described on his penis did not match up. MJ wanted it to go to court but in the end the estate told him to pay the money that Evan chandler was demanding. And as for the Arvisos....well did you follow the trial?! It was almost laughable. Trying to kidnap them in a hot air balloon?! Ever likely he was acquitted.
It’s a shame that Mj fans make out like he was an angel and there’s no way he could be an abuser- anyone can be. He was deeply flawed, I don’t agree with children being in his bed or room,no matter what the reason or how big the room was, or how childlike he was .You say it was abuse- but the parents were always there so in my mind they are guilty of the abuse too, abuse of their role as a parent. He made the most ridiculous of decisions and by admitting he shared a bed with kids was bizzare and disgusting to say the least. But in my opinion, and I know not many will agree- the ones that have gone public with their accusations I just have never seen any solid evidence at all. Even the FBI files don’t show anything and they can all be viewed online.
I’m not saying he wasn’t an abuser, and I’m not saying I agree with things he did. I also think there’s a big chance he himself was abused as a child. But now because he’s dead, people can say what they want, and he’s worth so much more now he’s dead.
And yes the testimony was horrific, but it was filmed over 17 months and the accused didn’t get their chance to have their say. I just don’t find it fair and I found it to be totally one sided. Maybe if they didn’t want to gain financially from it, it would have held more sway

 

[shellie]

I think the same as I always have. He abused those boys because they knew about the vitiligo marks on his penis. There’s no excuse for that.

I still think he’s the reason Macauley Culkin went off the rails but he’s not going to come out and say anything because MJ’s weird fans would hound him and nobody would be interested in giving him a job anymore because admitting abuse hasn’t helped anyone’s career has it?

He groomed the world talking about his abusive childhood though. I don’t buy that he wanted to play with children because he didn’t have a childhood himself, he still had choices like we all have and most of us choose not to repeat the mistakes. We still grow up and want to have adult experiences rather than childhood ones. Having said that I do recognise all of his family seem to be very strange.

Michael was a hard nosed businessman when he wanted to be, the only thing I‘m not surprised about is that he ended up on drugs and dead much earlier than he should have.

He’s a mercurial character though, I can still appreciate his music - well everything before Bad was incredible, after that it all went a bit meh.

Whether anything happened I have no idea but Macauley did admit to sleeping in the bed with him which is weird on it's own as well as claiming an adult having such a close friendship with a child was no issue. He tried to defend him once in a Larry King interview but the problem was Michael himself admitted he always slept in the same bed as the kids, not another one or another room and it wasn't just at Neverland it happened either.