Michael Jackson

[Gym&Tonic]

read this,

I think MJ was dodgy as they come but that documentary was filled with false and fake scenarios. I don’t believe Wade one bit because of that doc.

Also to note from that article: As for Jackson’s legacy — let us remember not a single dollar goes into his pockets anymore. He is dead. According to his will, his money should be benefiting his elderly mother, his children who have been orphaned, and charity. To date, his estate has brought in at least $1 billion since his death. That means, if his wishes are followed, there’s about $200 million to spare for charities. That’s probably more than any living celebrity has given to charity lately.

Are you seriously saying we should absolve him of any wrong doing because he gives a lot of money to charity?! Maybe we should say the same about Jimmy Savile as well if we are going down that route?

 

[MsPelzer]

He was a pedalo. No denying it or sugar coating anything. He had 5 year old boys spend the week with him. Why are people so blinded by celebrity? He was a bad man yet people offered their kids up. Sick

 

[Inkling95]

Your both deluded and with a name like fudge cakes well.........

Can you mind your manners? People have different opinions, but to go into a topic as sensitive as these and discredit people’s opinions on the alleged victims by naming calling is not on. Get the fuck outta here with that attitude.

 

[Catwoman]

I was a Michael Jackson fan (not fanatic) and was ready to disbelieve them. Having watched it all and other interviews, such as Oprah I have NO doubt he was a very powerful, manipulative paedophile. I believe every word those two men shared.

Just because a predator is dead, does not mean we should discount the victims and in this case does not make his HIDEOUS crimes forgivable.

 

[Horatio]

Representing the “pro- Michael Jackson” camp really well there.

 

[PurvyPanda]

I obviously can’t show you any evidence, but I will absolutely judge him for his predatory behaviour.

As many have already said - it is very likely that some accusations made against him have been false, but that does not make all the accusations false. There will also be many who never will speak up or speak out.

There was also heavy manipulation at play. He will have had child “friends” who were not abused - good cover, as they will always be able to say he never touched them.

We can judge his behaviour, as adults - knowing that there is no innocent reason, for him to insist on having children sleep alone with him in his bed.

Also - worth noting - he had immense power and wealth to make these things go away. Something none of the victims have. When you hear the words of his lawyer who is on the Megan Kelly show the other day his words were very brutal. If you were a victim even contemplating accusing Jackson, you would probably curl up in a ball and never dare speak of it after hearing him speak,,because he literally said he would crush them.


Plus you have all of his fans who are…… VERY dedicated to the cause, let’s just put it that way. I mean you’re going to have a force of reckoning whether the accusations are true or false. Most of them must know this. That isn’t going be easy money. They are going to have his fans on their backs like a monkey on their shoulder for the rest of their life.

Michael put himself in this predicament. You do NOT have small kids over for sleepovers when you are a fully grown man. Did Madonna have 5-10 year old girls over for slumber parties, dressing them up like her and watching The Labyrinth? No. She was partying and shagging lots of people because she was a grown adult woman.

 

[Horatio]

Very common to defend and lie for your abuser. A great many abused children take it to the grave, so that part of this doesn’t seem off to me.

Yeah as the director says in the interview linked above, the documentary is in a way more a study of the long term impact of child abuse on its victims than some kind of scandalous exposè of MJ. They both talk about him in such a similar way - though very upset you can tell their childhood adoration is still with them. Though their logical, adult side know the horror of what was done to them, there’s really no anger or malice towards him. He brainwashed them so thoroughly as children even death and adulthood can’t fully fix it. It’s tragic but facisnating.

And yes it’s what most child abusers do - as they are usually family members or friends. But I think something about the colossal level of his celebrity made his power over people even stronger. the two of them show such similar responses - but are not allowed to be in contact according to that article - it’s almost inconveivable that they could both pull off acts of such complexity if it was all a big lie.
And as has also been pointed out, why shouldn’t they ask for money? They were raped for years as children by one of the richest singers that ever lived. It’s their right to take that to court and sue for damages. As if that will get their childhood back.

(Apologies for lumping Wade and Jimmy together I know their cases do have some differences - it was partly for the sake of the argument and partly because I do confuse some of the stories and details)

 

[vikka]

Memory is a chronichally unreliable thing, we all remember many things wrong even when we are convinced we remember something 100% right.

Particularly traumatic experiences will be fudged with by our brain, partly to protect ourselves from deeper trauma.

Victims not remembering stuff 100% right, messing up events and places and thinking abuse happened in place 1 instead of 2 (even if that place didn't exist then and was built later) doesn't make these people liars and is one of the reasons people don't speak out, because the victims get such abuse by others for speaking out and being made out to be liars.

I watched Leaving Neverland and don't doubt the 2 mens' stories at all. Seemed very real to me.

Others, like Macaulay Caulkin, who claim they were not abused either were indeed never abused, haven't processed it yet or just don't want to go public with it, not (just) to protect their abuser, but also themselves (not to be seen constantly as victim, to move on from it etc etc).

I don't know why Caulkin's word is taken for truth but the victims' isn't by MJ defenders?

I don't care that MJ has been found innocent by a court, plenty of innocent people are found guilty and plenty of guilty people are found to be innocent by courts.
One juror (old man) voted R Kelly to be innocent (years ago), because he didn't like the way one of the victims (young woman) dressed and spoke!!!! Wtf.

The reason why abuse victims come out only later, mis-remember things etc etc are so complex and deep that it isn't a simple case of "they need money and that building didn't exist then! they are gold diggers and liars!"
I mean it also takes many domestic abuse victims years, some even decades, to leave.
So easy to sit at the other side and say "why didn't you leave sooner?" "why didn't you speak out?" "why didn't you go to the authorities?"

I also think it's hard for kids, even as adults, to admit to themselves that their abuser is an abuser when they are liked by the parents. If your parents like someone, how can that person be bad? Psyche is complex and it takes time to reconcile yourself with reality.

I don't know about the estate etc, but many people would lie when they think they won't be believed over technicalities etc.
"Do you know of the estate's worth?" "yes" "so you want money?!"
"Do you know of the estate's worth?" (If I say yes they'll think me a gold digger) "no".

There's no way that all these boys' (now men's) stories would have similarities if they weren't true.
And so much more.

I don't get how people so passionately defend MJ, R Kelly and others?

 

[Miss Havisham]

His lawyer thinks he was innocent?
Of course he does.

 

[Abominatrix]

Generally, when discussing childhood sex abuse, I'm not really inclined to get up and dance, no matter how great the beat is.

Being in a court of law, trying a man for abusing children... I guess that's only fun of the pedalo provides a banging soundtrack.

If you're reading some of the replies in this thread and scratching your heads, remember that people just like that have children, and some will go to great lengths to touch money and fame. If you're wondering how children wound up in bed with MJ, and where were their parents, how could they let this happen?

Very easy to turn your back on the behavior of the King of Pop if you're that damn pathetic. Hell, that Last Prophets creep had women offering him their infants and I'd never even heard of that band before he was busted.

Every corner of the globe knew Micheal Jackson and adored him.

Now, imagine all the things that sick fuck got to do when visiting other countries.

 

[Member 1942]

I believe them.
There’s not a shadow of doubt in my mind that MJ was a terrible, but very clever, predator.

 

[Abominatrix]

Even if he didn't sexually abuse children, it cannot be denied that he groomed children and their families, and developed inappropriate relationships with young boys. This alone should be enough for his music to never be played again imo. If it was any other male music star showing the same behaviours today, they would be cancelled immediately.

Literally anyone else would be forever cancelled, but MJ manage to convince everyone that he was just an innocent little boy who needed friends, and not the very powerful, very twisted grown ass man he was.

Can't even imagine being so wrapped up in a fandom that I'd be willing to ignore red flag after red flag and bend myself into knots trying to convince myself this very obvious serial predator was just the victim of a smear campaign. Gotta make sure I still rabidly love this stranger who makes the music I like.

I mean really, who cares, have you ever seen him dance?

 

[Miss Havisham]

Well he wasn't perfectly normal was he? You forgot to mention his "bedroom" was the size of a normal person's 2 up 2 down house.

He certainly wasn’t normal, and the size of his bedroom isn’t relevant - that was more a reflection of his wealth.
He wanted access to other people’s children overnight, when other adults were not present. I agree, that that is not normal.

 

[MarshMallowMonster]

there are more alleged victims as shown in both documentaries.

there is a shroud over MJ still, his legacy lives on. his hardcore fans are devoted. who would face them by making claims public?

I wonder how many people would feel safe leaving their kids with MJ were he still alive today.

certainly an amazing and talented performer, but with demons and sinister tastes.

 

[Miss Havisham]

He was a global superstar and lived a life that attracted interest, interest that was frequently capitalised upon.

Considering his lifestyle, and even the circumstances of his death - he is going to be talked about. All the more so, when his estate authorise movies, etc about him.

He will be talked about for years to come, alongside Elvis, Marilyn Monroe, Princess Diana John Lennon, etc. I don’t think we can just say, ignore all the negative sides of their lives because they are dead. Especially if there was controversy around their behaviour, when they were alive.

This is a forum to discuss famous people (dead or alive). If anyone is upset by the discussion content or posts - they can always report it to admins.

 

[Mayday]

Well if you believe it catwoman then we all should as your opinion must be right because u were there and u know the truth

No one said that?

Your both deluded and with a name like fudge cakes well.........

Its not cool to attack members for having a different opinion to you. You can have a discussion without the childish insults.

 

[Hepaticus]

Those 2 guys swore that nothing happened to them and that Michael was innocent of sex abuse, suddeny they "ready to tell their story" and I smell a rat, its also quite handy that MJ has been dead for nearly 10 years and can't defend himself.

Very common to defend and lie for your abuser. A great many abused children take it to the grave, so that part of this doesn’t seem off to me.

 

[I_C bread ppl]

Neverland was the white van full of candy.

 

[AlexTwist]

I don't think the Peter Pan theory holds any weight either when MJ clearly at least understood adult matters and sexuality and used them in his music and videos. Besides, if he was mentally a child then his fans were supporting the exploitation of him. Can't have it both ways - if he was so mentally impaired then why was he touring, doing business etc.

This is something I've often thought. Many people, including Paul McCartney have told stories about how ruthless MJ was in business. So many people who met him say his regular voice was deeper. Lisa Marie said they had a normal sex life during their marriage. His music videos were often overtly sexual, and he often seemed incredibly angry in them. Start adding these anecdotes together and you start moving further and further away from this Peter Pan theory.

Another thing I've thought about the whole situation is, even some of the kids he befriended who support him to this day, all seem to say they lost regular contact with him once they grew up. Even if nothing sexual occurred, surely the concept of befriending kids, travelling on tour with them, being their best friend, then ditching them once they got too old, is abusive in itself?

 

[samwilzrhcp]

Money talks, he was a peadophile.