Michael Jackson

[MunkyMagic]

I watched an interview with LMP and she pretty much says MJ wasn’t anything like he presented to the public; he was astute business-wise and knew his “child like” persona kept him protected, ensured fans loved him and therefore made him money.

He also bought the Beatles back catalogue after taking Paul McCsrtneys advice on investing in music publishing. Bet Macca didn’t anticipate that one when doling our advice.

 

[Handerton]

I just get the feeling that if Gary Glitter had been the one with the money and fame, we’d be here reading about his accusers being liars and wondering if any of the rumours were true. It just seems so easy to cover stuff up if you have the money and are making big dollars for influential people too. If any of us had kids sleeping in our beds for ANY “reasons” we would expect to get locked up and have nobody trust us again

 

[Youtubegossip]

Because they all come out of the woodwork. Look at Jimmy Saville and how many have come out and claimed he did something to them. Yes half of them may have had something happen but the other half are only in it for the money.

You know that for a FACT do you?

Also from what I understand this documentary focuses around 4 boys. All of who ‘came out of the woodwork’ years and years ago and their parents took money to be silenced didn’t they???

 

[Tothemoonandback]

I was a huge fan of MJs. Stuck up for him over the years re allegations. Thought they were all after his money,he was like a child himself,he never had a childhood etc. Then saw the documentary in Feb. Something inside me switched. I can't look at him now. His music is tainted.

Yes it was a very well done documentary. I believed every word at first too. I'm actually now shocked that channel 4 convicted a dead black man FOR PROFIT with no evidence. I'm not saying Jackson is innocent- obviously I can't say that I wasn't there and Jackson's behaviour with children and obsession with childhood has always been troubling and his family and friends should have intervened as it left all parties so vulnerable.

BUT there's some serious holes in that documentary. In the documentary Safechuck claims to have been abused daily in a trainstation at Jackson's ranch (In the "honeymoon phase"
of his abuse as he called it). It has subsequently transpired was train station was not built until 4 years after Safechuck claims his abuse ended. I've rewatched that scene again from the documentary and now I know that element of it cannot be true the whole thing just doesn't sit right.

The other accuser, Robson, says in the documentary that Jackson "turned him against women" and that Jackson only wanted him as his special friend. Well it now transpires Jackson introduced Robson to his Neice, Brandi Jackson. And Robson and Brandi dated for 8/9 years! Something Robson himself verifies in court documents but this part of the story has been left out of the documentary. Surely it would have been worth Robson mentioning once during a 4 hour documentary that he was dating his abusers niece the whole time he was being abused and apparently being turned against women?

Both these two new accusers got into serious financial difficulty just weeks before claiming to remember abuse. That is suspect. Doesn't mean they're lying but it is suspect.

Robson also claims Jackson's hair felt like a "Brillo Pad" and as many black people on Twitter have pointed out, there can have been no black people involved in the making of this "documentary" as this immediately stands out. Black hair in a jerecho curl doesn't feel like a Brillo pad. Again, that doesn't mean Robson is lying (he could have misremembered this), but it needs to be factored in.

Another element not included in the documentary but that is included in the court documents: Robson's email to his mum asking her for details of his meetings with Jackson. Robson emailed his mum attaching a newspaper article and says in the email "mum is this article true, I don't remember" and Robson's mum replies "wow no none of this is true". Yet Robson goes on to include all the details from the article in his multi million dollar lawsuit anyway!! It's definitely worth reading the court documents - it's fascinating.

Same with Gavin who accused Jackson in 2005. He claimed Jackson tried to kidnap his family in a hot air balloon. The claims got so ridiculous the jury were openly laughing at points.

I just get the feeling that if Gary Glitter had been the one with the money and fame, we’d be here reading about his accusers being liars and wondering if any of the rumours were true. It just seems so easy to cover stuff up if you have the money and are making big dollars for influential people too. If any of us had kids sleeping in our beds for ANY “reasons” we would expect to get locked up and have nobody trust us again

Aside from the OJ Simpson case, I don't know much about any of these other cases that always seem to get put into the mix. Just because Jimmy Saville and Gary Glitter are guilty,it doesn't mean every weird famous guy who gets accused must be to too.

I actually don't really want to make simplistic comparisons but if forced... for a start, Glitter and Saville's accusers all went to the police in the first instance. Indeed with Saville the police and BBC covered it up for years. Contrast this with Jackson where the FBI were investigating Jackson over a ten year period and the police nearly bankrupted the state of Santa Barbara in trying to convict Jackson. They even sent officers to Australia to try and find new accusers. They found no

All of Jackson's accusers have gone to civil lawyers first to seek money. All Jackson accusers have had financial problems. This is the opposite of Saville and Glitter.

If your son had been abused would you want money or justice first? Which would be more important?
I know it doesn't mean these accusers are lying but again it's part of the picture.

Again, personally I want to get away from comparison. Look at each case and each accuser individually. Just because OJ got found "not guilty" doesn't mean all rich people with good lawyers get off. Each case is separate and it's too simplistic to just use a broad brush approach. I know it takes more time but individual research is needed.

 

[GiggleBee]

I don't believe any of it. They're doing it for the money. MJ is dead and he now can't defend himself.

 

[Oohthedrama]

Ok I’ve not watched this yet but my opinion right now.

These two guys I wouldn’t trust and the documentary seems to be based around them more than anything? Stories and accusations that were told/made were made with no way to prove if they were true, as there was only 2 people involved every time. The 2 guys were in contact behind the scenes before the documentary came out am I right?
And this seems off. It also looks like the director had in his mind what way he wanted this to go, so his narrative was always going to be that the abuse happened. Regardless of facts.

Apparently none of the Jackson family were given the chance to speak out or be involved in the documentary? I don’t think they could make much of a difference but I do think they should have had the chance to speak.
I’m on the fence on this one because of the people involved and how sketchy they seem.
Like @Web30 has said, if you can’t trust the source it’s hard to believe the facts.
Interested to see if my opinion changes after watching it.

I think we can all agree MJ was talented as fuck.
But so fucking messed up. He was a danger to himself from the day he became Michael Jackson.
And carried most of his family from childhood. His own childhood was screwed up, I’d be surprised if that didn’t leak into his adult life. But allegations are just that right now. Who knows. I feel sorry for his kids right now

 

[Horatio]

Yeah having watched it I don’t know how there can be much doubt, honestly. I found it totally horrifying but tragically credible. The two of them are clearly so deeply psychologically affected part of them still seems to love and revere him to this day - I don’t see someone lieing showing that complexity of emotional scarring.

And this article by the director is very eloquent.
It also addresses the money and testifying in his defence arguments.

https://www.theguardian.com/comment...michael-jackson-abuser?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

 

[KawaiiAF]

It's so disgusting, and La Toya had been talking about it for years and nobody listened to her. The Jackson family threatened her and treated her like the black sheep.

 

[2xblended]

And why would it be Jackson in particular getting picked on - why would he unfairly be targeted when many people as famous - let’s say Paul McCartney, Stevie Wonder, that sort of level to name two he worked with - rarely have anyone accuse them of anything?

I think a part of that is just how 'alien' Jackson was, and how easy it was to pin any sort of outlandish claim on him due to his eccentric ways.
Not to mention, Neverland Ranch being an open house to anyone who waned to go there meant it was easier to claim it was the setting/location of abuse...other celebs weren't as willing to let fans into their homes.
And before people say that open house policy incriminates him, I want to point out that the ranch was open to adults and children, and just about anyone who wanted to enter was granted permission to visit and stay. This has been documented over the years- he just wanted people to have a bit of the escapism that he himself needed so badly.
I have no idea if he's innocent or guilty, I cried with the Leaving Neverland documentary and believed them. But once I started digging deeper, there were a lot of details from the accusers that did not prove true in the end. Seeing that alternative documentary posted above- it showed facts without the emotional manipulation, and it confirmed a lot of what I'd read... It makes all those claims seem like a witch hunt and money grab, unfortunately.

 

[Youtubegossip]

Yeah I’m not convinced by the documentary having watched it.

However,
I still think a grown man wanting children to sleep in his bed isn’t innocent and even if nothing happened is crossing a HUGE boundary. No one would be okay with Roger from down the road doing it.

Also, didn’t one of the boys describe in great detail the marks on the underside of MJs penis which turned out to be accurate?

 

[2xblended]

I can understand both sides of this, but for those just condemning Jackson based on the Leaving Neverland documentary- would you please watch the Square One documentary posted? It makes for a fairer picture overall. It's filled with facts whilst the former is purposefully leading people by emotions in the absence of hard facts. Both of them together provide a clearer picture.

The other thing to note (which I think others have mentioned before me) is that MJ was investigated 20 times (or some such insane number) by the FBI but they found absolutely nothing incriminating against him and said so repeatedly.
It's not like Weinstein where the local police and press were on his payroll and covered up for him (I think I read that tidbit in 'Catch and Kill'). This wasn't a coverup by a local police station (because none of the accusers or their families ever informed the police or filed a criminal case against Jackson). This was various departments in the FBI each coming up empty when they raided MJ and his family's homes repeatedly.

Guilty or innocent, nobody will know for sure, and I'm not trying to convince anyone. I was swayed by the documentary and then found the facts to mostly be proven false. I appreciate a counter documentary that aims to present a more factually researched picture of what occurred (and since this is a "documentary" and not fiction, I am shocked that Leaving Neverland didn't get fact checked).

 

[karenjet]

I watched 20 minutes and couldn’t manage anymore. Descriptions of sexual abuse are hard for me to listen to.

I don’t know what to think. Part of me thinks there’s no smoke without fire.
However, I just cannot my head around the parents. I wouldn’t want my own brothers - who I trust with my life - to sleep in a bed with my child. Not that I’d think for one second anything would happen. It’s just so inappropriate.

 

[KINGAA]

My issue with the Leaving Neverland documentary was how some facts were so inaccurate with dates, location and times. Even the director some things were made that way to make a better story.

They’d already had their case thrown out of court when they tried to sue the MJ productions and venture for 1.5 billion in 2013 and 2015. This happened after Wade got upset that Cirque du Soleil wouldn’t hire him to choreograph the MJ Cirque du Soleil show and tried to write a book about MJ but no one wanted it.

The judge said, he’d sworn under oath twice and you can’t sue a corporation for molestation. Which you now can as of 2020 due to law changes so they’ll try again but MJ was broke so they will only be taking money from his kids I guess.

I’ve read the court documents, the FBI watched him for years and years and found nothing. No eveidence, MJ never paid anyone it was Sony and Insurance to shut people up. It wouldn’t be hard for Wade to create a similar story all these years later to make some money as he was broke.

 

[Upintheair83]

I am. He wasn’t a paedophile. A bit odd yes, but not a sexual abuser.

So what would you call having boys as young as 8 sleep in a bed with you? Put aside any of the sexual abuse allegations and I’m sure anybody on this site will agree having a boy of that age in your bed is disgusting. And that is PROVEN. That isn’t “odd”..it’s abuse, abuse of his status and power..and fucking disgusting. I don’t get how so many people believe every other allegation, but when it comes to MJ people continue to support him. Whilst the stories of some of the accusers may not be “perfect”, these are people discussing highly traumatic experiences. And the two people discussed in this thread and in the documentary were not the only two, do your research.

Iv done my research over years....Well the first accusation, Jordan Chandler - if you do your research with that one, his dad, Evan, wanted to ‘get as much money out of Michael Jackson’ (his own words) the markings that Jordan described on his penis did not match up. MJ wanted it to go to court but in the end the estate told him to pay the money that Evan chandler was demanding. And as for the Arvisos....well did you follow the trial?! It was almost laughable. Trying to kidnap them in a hot air balloon?! Ever likely he was acquitted.
It’s a shame that Mj fans make out like he was an angel and there’s no way he could be an abuser- anyone can be. He was deeply flawed, I don’t agree with children being in his bed or room,no matter what the reason or how big the room was, or how childlike he was .You say it was abuse- but the parents were always there so in my mind they are guilty of the abuse too, abuse of their role as a parent. He made the most ridiculous of decisions and by admitting he shared a bed with kids was bizzare and disgusting to say the least. But in my opinion, and I know not many will agree- the ones that have gone public with their accusations I just have never seen any solid evidence at all. Even the FBI files don’t show anything and they can all be viewed online.
I’m not saying he wasn’t an abuser, and I’m not saying I agree with things he did. I also think there’s a big chance he himself was abused as a child. But now because he’s dead, people can say what they want, and he’s worth so much more now he’s dead.
And yes the testimony was horrific, but it was filmed over 17 months and the accused didn’t get their chance to have their say. I just don’t find it fair and I found it to be totally one sided. Maybe if they didn’t want to gain financially from it, it would have held more sway

 

[Mayday]

I've only watched part 1 of the documentary so far...but now that I've actually watched it, I believe them. I still believe that Corey Feldman & Macaulay Culkin were never abused (I know that Corey is supporting the two men in the documentary now though).

What I don't get is why the hell the parents didn't question him? The fact that he would always refer to them like 'I'm so glad I have a friend in your son' not even I'm glad I'm friends with your family...always the child. James's mum went from 'you can't sleep in his room' to not even being placed on the same floor as him and making sure he stayed with her...and barely knowing which room they were in at what time in Neverland?? Then Wade's entire family went back to Australia without him and left him in Neverland with Michael for 5 days!! Wtf?!

 

[Youtubegossip]

His own neice... Who dated wade for 7 years has comeout saying its all lies.

Of course one of MJ’s family wouldn’t just stick up for their uncle?

Don’t get me wrong I love his music as much as the next person but if ‘roger from down the street had boys sleeping over at his house for weeks on end. In his bed, with him’ we’d all be fine about that would we???

 

[KawaiiAF]

I used to be a big michael jackson fan especially as a kid (it waned off once he started really butchering his face)

Even today, his concert was the best I'd ever seen. he really knew how to put on a show. However as an older teenager, I remember feeling jealous that Michael spent so much time with little kids, and not someone who, like me was around 16 or 17 years old. I remember thinking then, something is wrong but I don't know what it is.

When the stories first acme out about Michael and kids, I refused to believe it, because I thought they were money grubbing. I remember watching Martyn Bashir's interview and feeling as if he treated Michael appallingly.

I watched Leaving Neverland on catchup as I was in two minds about watching it. however, I'm glad I did. I've since began to read news articles and the maids interview on youtube and that led me to re-watching the Martin Bashir documentary.

I hadn't seen it for a long time, and now I am really intuitive. I was so shocked to be watching the same show and this time I could see and tell when Michael was lying, and he was lying A LOT about EVERYTHING! Honestly, now I understand, great music, great dancer, he knew evils we will never understand as a child, but I believe without a doubt he did abuse young boys.

My heart goes out to those young boys, it really does. i was such a big fan of his that if he had come on to me at that age I'd prob have fallen for it too. Honestly, I hate thinking i thought him the best person when in fact he seems to have been a wolf in sheeps clothing. Horrific for all concerned. And no he cannot blame his upbringing, even if he was abused himself, he should surely know enough to not be that way!

Now Im believeing also those stories that I read ages ago that Jackson had enough of the nosy parents interfering and suing so he adopted 3 children of his own, that he had two genetically chosen to both be boys, and did away with the mothers right after the births.

I believe he very likely abused his own sons, and that's the reason he had them, and the reason he made sure they were not bio related as that made it ok in his twisted mind, like the way he 'married' other boys. Honestly, it sickens me. He was not a nice man. Just, awful.

If that is the case, they know they can never speak out about it or the final nail will be in the coffin and it will be their fault! Now I get why Paris has tried to suicide before hitting 16 years old even and is acting out in so many ways inc hundreds of tattoos. It's just the worst.

I'm also really mad at all the enablers!!! Bloody woman who had those kids for him, yes money talks but that was not right. he literally snatched those babies the moment they were born and their mother was okay with that! I also believe he lied a lot about that too, he looked so shifty saying she agreed he could snatch Paris before she even had been cleaned up!

According to his maid there were sooo many boys he abused, they are all out there keeping silent as they don't want the hassle. Jeesh.

This is interesting too:

Michael Jackson 'was using Lisa Marie Presley to acquire Elvis' music'

Adrian McManus, who worked for four years as Michael Jackson's personal maid at Neverland ranch, claims that the King of Pop played Lisa Marie Presley as a 'fool'.

www.dailymail.co.uk

 

[Youtubegossip]

Im sure it was all his step dads doing. Didnt he come out and say his dad made him lie about it all

How can you lie about the underside of a mans penis - who when checked matched the description - apparently there were marks where it had been bleached etc that you wouldn't know unless you saw it?

 

[annanuttall]

I read a biography back in the 90s on MJ and it was written after the first abuse being public. The book goes into graphic details on the abuse and everything that was written is exactly the same details/stories that are now coming out. I believe these guys and it does break my heart as a huge MJ fan.

 

[Prince fan 1999]

I was a huge fan of MJs. Stuck up for him over the years re allegations. Thought they were all after his money,he was like a child himself,he never had a childhood etc. Then saw the documentary in Feb. Something inside me switched. I can't look at him now. His music is tainted.