Michael Jackson

[lime]

I don't know how anyone could watch Leaving Neverland and not believe those men. It was one of the most compelling and heartbreaking things I've ever watched, that was 6-7 years ago and everyone just brushed over it.

Now with this new biopic that's a total biased account produced by (and starring) his family, I wonder if the conversation will come up again.

 

[CookieMonsta]

I just want to say is anyone surprised so many parents demanded money when they were the kind of parents who let their kids sleep in Jackson's bed tbw??

 

[Abominatrix]

I always think of it as if my dad came home one day and said to me, "i had a really bad childhood so i have bought this 10 year old boy home to sleep in the same bed as me". I would call the police. You wouldn't accept that from anyone else but because it's Michael Jackson his fans say that's ok.

He's the only practicing pedophile I can think of who has so many people wanting to understand his reasoning and the abuse he suffered. Anyone else it's very rightly immediate disgust.

As we go through this Epstein exposure, more people are starting to come to terms with the idea that powerful men tend to engage in sex abuse of the vulnerable. Jackson is routinely classed with the vulnerable, rather than his actual status as a very powerful man.

 

[shellie]

I’ve always been on the fence with everything but is it true that not one of the accusers pushed for criminalisation, it was always about compensation? If he was such a bastard wouldn’t you want him off the streets?

This is where I fear one of two things - that none of it were true, or that some of it was and others have hopped onto the whole thing of the back of true victims. The Cascios are at it. They even named one of their daughters after him.

I don’t think the media has helped at all. The truth is so far buried under sensationalism at this point.

Again, a victim can be groomed for years into thinking nothing wrong and it is only years later, they realise they were abused. Go to any site that deals with this kind of thing and you wouldn't believe some of the stories about it. Years back I remember a story in the paper about a woman finding videos of him abusing their grandkids who were adults at the time, yet they still denied he had done anything wrong to them. Even after he himself put his hands up, while one of them finally admitted what had happened, the other two were begging the courts not to jail him because he had screwed with their heads so much and even in their 20s, believed this was how grandfathers showed their love. My point is every victim is different in how they react to abuse.

As for why they are coming forward now, unlike murder, there is a time period for when you can report sexual assault/abuse. It's only in the last few years that some places including California have wiggled things about so even if it was years back, you can report it depending on certain circumstances. That's why we are hearing about so many victims coming forward now...because they did try to before but were told no.

As for the money thing...how many stories have we heard about victims/ their families told their cases weren't going to court because it didn't meet the standard of what was needed so instead they went the other route because they wanted it on record the accuser DID do what they were accused of and when they were found guilty, the victims were awarded damages because of what they went through? This isn't any different in my opinion. If he did what he was accused of...that will have fucked his victims up and meant years of therapy and other things needed to help them try to cope so if that means it is proven and they get damages then so be it.

 

[SweetPerdita]

There’s zero doubt in my mind at all that he abused children, and there never has been.

 

[shellie]

Supporters know this is all weird but it's part of the abuse he suffered as a child he thinks it's normal abused people think things that aren't normal arw. Why did the parents let this happen where we're they in all this hey letting their kids go round a strangers house

There was a reason he only picked people whose parents who were hard up and naive. Many assume only kids can be groomed but it happens to adults as well and that's exactly what he did...gave them more money than they had ever had before, presents and holidays they would never have the chance to take otherwise. Most parents would go 'What a minute' and see if something is too good to be true it is. Maybe on some level they did too but they clearly got over it quickly Then when the kids were too old, the families were all discarded and he moved onto the next bunch of victims. He was the one who committed the crimes but the parents should take some of the blame too but from the interviews I saw, none seemed to.

 

[Miss Havisham]

He really was not found innocent - not guilty is very different.

 

[Fudgecakes]

I was a Michael Jackson fan (not fanatic) and was ready to disbelieve them. Having watched it all and other interviews, such as Oprah I have NO doubt he was a very powerful, manipulative paedophile. I believe every word those two men shared.

Just because a predator is dead, does not mean we should discount the victims and in this case does not make his HIDEOUS crimes forgivable.

Yes, I 100% agree with you. I have no doubt these two gentlemen are telling the truth. People seem to have forgotten that they were conditioned and brainwashed at such an early age. It can take people years and years to come out and speak about their troubles, I hope they find peace.

 

[Dotty Merton]

I will answer this honestly.
Apologises now if it gets long.
The whole if he was Barry down the street is a void argument. He wasn’t just someone off the street. He was the most well known person in the world and still is.
Would I leave my children with Michael Jackson? Truthfully NO.
I do not leave my children with anyone.
As someone who has been SA on two separate occasions and it messed me up for years I am a very over protective mother. I trust no one.
Having said this did I go to the men who SA me and ask for a payout as compensation.
Also NO!
Do I believe this is extortion and not true claims? YES.
How much research have you done because I have done a lot. I could not continue to listen to this man’s music if I thought there was a possibility these accusations were true. I’ve studied the case thoroughly. I’ve seen the patterns with the media. The discrepancies with dates. The victims conveniently waiting until the stature of limitations is up. Why will 40 million help ease their trauma? I watched LN and I couldn’t believe how at ease they talked about it all. They seemed fake. I hate injustice. It’s all of it together that forms a bigger picture. I believe he had age regression and trauma from his childhood. He doesn’t fit the profile of a pedalo according to many experts. I do think he acted inappropriately. He should never have put himself in that situation. As you say no average Joe would do this. But again he wasn’t average. There was nothing ordinary about his upbringing and nothing ordinary about his life as an adult. Maybe his behaviour was odd for that reason.
I don’t know, I don’t claim to have all the answers but what I can say is I believe in his innocence because of many, many reasons.
I’m not just here like “ oh Billie Jean is a good bop, can’t possibly stop liking him, I’ll just let it slide he’s a pedalo. “

I cannot listen to his music post Jackson 5. And it horrifies me that there are people who still dont think he fits a pedalo profile, he's not even a red flag, MJ is flashing red beacon going wahhhh wahhhh wahhhh wahhhh. How much research have you done on victims, grooming and paedophile profiles or how about psychological defence/denial, fan culture and obsession?

I also did not say (or mean to infer) 'no average Joe' would do this. Average or fucked up superstar? They both do this shit but the rich superstars get away with it. An unusual life does not give excuse. He was an adult kidding people he was stuck in some weird time warp.

Billie Jean is no cute bop it's about obsessive groupies and false accusations.

 

[MarshMallowMonster]

I believe the NL content.

Kids have hazy memories about buildings and timelines. But not about abuse.

MJ was a predator. He gave to charity with one hand and with the other he abused kids.

He was a genius performer. Genius musician. He has a strong fan base still after all this time. I even went to an awesome MJ concert.

But he was a paedophile.

 

[Miss Havisham]

Where he actually slept is not a great concern. The concern is an adult wanting to have children alone with him in those circumstance - it can’t be normalised.
It’s not like they had nowhere else to sleep and he was taking them in for the night. It was blatant predatory behaviour.

MJ was also a known liar.

 

[MarshMallowMonster]

why would MJ beg young male fans to share his bed? beg their parents, pay them off with gifts.

MJ was enabled, he was a huge star back then with an entourage of enablers keen to keep his dirty secrets hidden.

I believe MJ was a paedophile. I was a big fan and went to see him in an amazing concert.

he shouldn’t have shared his bed with kids, he was proud of it, announcing how natural it was on more than one occasion.

 

[Gym&Tonic]

Anyone who still thinks he’s innocent needs to give their heads a wobble. The guy was a depraved freak who hid in plain sight for years.

 

[Miss Havisham]

On watching the recent BBC documentary (and then reading various articles, that I did not pay attention to back in the day). I now believe that he was grooming and abusing children, I think it was likely that he was also falsely accused by some - but not by all of his accusers, I think it’s also very likely, that some victims haven’t and won’t speak out.

The recent bbc documentary is very informative, it’s not sensationalist- but presents the timeline in a way that was not clear to me, previously.
He comes across as a very manipulative, calculating man.

 

[Miss Havisham]

We are never going to agree on this.. you find him guilty with out proof and just hear say from the accusers. people close to him and the time lines ect have changed constantly, I find him innocent because there is not one single bit of evidence.

I hope we can agree that these new claims are for money. Wade & cascio family demanded a payout and the estate has refused this, would they of came forward with these claims if the estate paid out? I highly doubt it.

These lies ( my opinion ) must be hurting his family so bad, prince defends his dad, Paris has obviously struggled so bad, I read she self harmed and was addicted to drugs at a early age, bigi just looks lost. He’s been dead for 17 year and still this continues.

I view him as guilty of some of the accusations, based on his predatory behaviour. I think it’s somehow inevitable that false accusations will be mixed in with true accounts.
As for how some of his family are coping with this - is not for me to say. There is bound to be suffering from the fall out of this, due to his predatory behaviour, the accusations against him (both factual and false) and him being a global superstar.

There are probably many folk like me, who viewed him as an oddball, who was probably harmless - until very recently, when I delved a bit deeper, into looking at his behaviour, behaviour that I had previously had no or very little knowledge of. I now see him as someone who was very manipulative, arrogant, entitled and predatory towards young boys.

 

[Magwitch]

Well he wasn't perfectly normal was he? You forgot to mention his "bedroom" was the size of a normal person's 2 up 2 down house.

Wow. I’ve heard all the excuses for clearly predatory behaviour. He was ‘unique’, ‘special’, ‘child-like’ etc. The size of the room he was sharing with multiple underage boys is sinking to a new low however.

 

[PineappleQueen19]

It’s often the case in trials and indeed in the court of public opinion, there are “good” victims and “bad” victims. It happens a lot in rape cases (hence why it’s effectively been decriminalised in the U.K. at least), also in everything from child abuse to murder. Look what happened to Joanne Lees in the Peter Falconio murder trial. Or the recent-ish rape case in Ireland where the victim’s knickers were passed around and her sex life openly raked through. Happens every day.

Reading this, for example, does not put Wade Robson in the best light. https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www....chael-Jackson-sex-abuse-claims-tell-book.html

However. Your character and actions don’t need to be above reproach for the things you claim to have happened to be the truth.

Perhaps neither of the men are textbook “good” victims.. with Wade possibly less so out of the two. Nevertheless I believe both of them. There’s little doubt in my mind that MJ was pedophile and used his money, fame and power to get his way.

 

[Abominatrix]

Sorry but his behaviour is literally textbook grooming behaviour of the entire families of the victims. If it was a random man and not a beloved popular you are a fan of you'd believe it very easily. Look at the shit thats come out about other pedophile celebrities! But just because Micheal had a bad childhood he must be innocent

He just wanted to be a child forever, despite being a fully grown man with a fully formed sexual libido and need. Nothing to see here, just innocent sleep overs with little boys.

 

[Gym&Tonic]

read this,

I think MJ was dodgy as they come but that documentary was filled with false and fake scenarios. I don’t believe Wade one bit because of that doc.

Also to note from that article: As for Jackson’s legacy — let us remember not a single dollar goes into his pockets anymore. He is dead. According to his will, his money should be benefiting his elderly mother, his children who have been orphaned, and charity. To date, his estate has brought in at least $1 billion since his death. That means, if his wishes are followed, there’s about $200 million to spare for charities. That’s probably more than any living celebrity has given to charity lately.

Are you seriously saying we should absolve him of any wrong doing because he gives a lot of money to charity?! Maybe we should say the same about Jimmy Savile as well if we are going down that route?

 

[Miss Havisham]

Show me the evidence he done it. There is none but what there is, is parents on phone calls saying they will destroy him, past attempts for parents of false sexual claims, Gavins mother was took back to court for this, also welfare fraud. She saw a opportunity and took it. Money speaks.. she chose money over her child because didn’t gavin cut all contact with his parents after this? This kid was made to say these lies to fill the pocket of his parents.

Plenty people who have nothing to gain financially from this have said Michael we nothing but a child in a man’s body. I don’t agree with him sharing a bed with a child but as far as sexual abuse goes I 100% believe he didn’t touch them.

Yes I know plenty about sa cases I’ve been thru this and let me tell you money was the last thing on my mind, I wanted justice.

You may think this wrong of me but I feel for him. All this when the man is in his grave and can’t defend his self. A one sided story is better then two sided when it comes to trying to getting £££.

I obviously can’t show you any evidence, but I will absolutely judge him for his predatory behaviour.

As many have already said - it is very likely that some accusations made against him have been false, but that does not make all the accusations false. There will also be many who never will speak up or speak out.

There was also heavy manipulation at play. He will have had child “friends” who were not abused - good cover, as they will always be able to say he never touched them.

We can judge his behaviour, as adults - knowing that there is no innocent reason, for him to insist on having children sleep alone with him in his bed.