Michael Jackson

[Sassie]

I’m not worked up at all. I’m happy for peoples opinions as I am an all threads. No one has to agree.

The reason I mentioned Jimmy Saville was because someone said if a person is dead their alleged crimes should be laid to rest with them which I disagree with and as per your point here we’re all allowed difference of opinions.

Ps. 1000000% isn’t a thing. Max is 100% ? that’s tongue in cheek incase I have to clarify

Slightly off topic, but .. I have a holiday home in Scarborough (a small seaside resort in the UK).

Jimmy Savile lived there, and was pretty much hailed a hero. When he passed away he was given what was close to a state funeral send off, memorials were erected all over the town (street signs, plaque on his flat, etc) and he was awarded a Freedom of Scarborough honour. He was adored in his home town (predominantly by the older generation!).

Once the massive abuse scandal broke, anything and everything containing his name was removed. Even his headstone was taken down and sent to landfill.

He was once the talk of the town (even after he’d died), but now it’s like everyone acts like he didn’t exist. I was in a pub close to his home last year, and a guy struck up a conversation with a local about him .. the tumbleweed was unreal, and he abruptly left (think he thought he was going to get a good hiding ?).

Basically, in that huge warble, I guess what I’m trying to say is .. the mighty fall extremely hard.

For the record, he ALWAYS gave me the chills .. especially when he wore his marathon gear ?

 

[Mayday]

I've only watched part 1 of the documentary so far...but now that I've actually watched it, I believe them. I still believe that Corey Feldman & Macaulay Culkin were never abused (I know that Corey is supporting the two men in the documentary now though).

What I don't get is why the hell the parents didn't question him? The fact that he would always refer to them like 'I'm so glad I have a friend in your son' not even I'm glad I'm friends with your family...always the child. James's mum went from 'you can't sleep in his room' to not even being placed on the same floor as him and making sure he stayed with her...and barely knowing which room they were in at what time in Neverland?? Then Wade's entire family went back to Australia without him and left him in Neverland with Michael for 5 days!! Wtf?!

 

[karenjet]

I watched 20 minutes and couldn’t manage anymore. Descriptions of sexual abuse are hard for me to listen to.

I don’t know what to think. Part of me thinks there’s no smoke without fire.
However, I just cannot my head around the parents. I wouldn’t want my own brothers - who I trust with my life - to sleep in a bed with my child. Not that I’d think for one second anything would happen. It’s just so inappropriate.

 

[Oohthedrama]

I decided against watching it in the end. I just don’t want to know the details. So much about his life was a car crash, he’s dead, his kids aren’t.
I still believe this documentary shouldn’t have been made, not that he shouldn’t be called out on his actions now he’s dead, I don’t know what happened and none of us really do, but the fact that this documentary was a producer going after a story and not “victims” speaking out after years and years of being scared into silence just leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

Now the R Kelly case I’m really interested in, because it’s all happening now, and there’s so much to it.
If anyone wants to join the chat while the ABC interview is a hot topic there’s a thread for him in General That started yesterday!

http://tattle.life/threads/surviving-r-kelly-r-kelly-breaks-his-silence.771/

 

[Justjonie]

Just putting my tuppence in. I watched the documentary the first night and read up on it afterwards. I watched the second half last night. The first night I was convinced they were telling the truth. Then I read up that they had raised a multi-million dollar lawsuit against MJ's estate in 2016 or 2017 and weren't successful. That is now up on appeal apparently and all of sudden, they come out with their stories. Their stories are very graphic but I wonder if they have done it that way to bring the shock factor and make people believe them. Their stories are almost identical too, which contrary to what most believe, can actually be a sign of lying as most people will have their own individual experiences rather than just a blanket approach that matches all other victims experiences (from what I've heard and read on FBI true crime articles/podcasts etc).

So I'm still in two minds. I find it very strange how it was always little boys MJ befriended but his life was very very messed up. If he did molest kids, how come no hard evidence was ever round in Neverland? Yes he paid off Jordy Chandler but with the Gavin Arvizo case, the FBI turned over Neverland and didn't find concrete evidence. I also find it strange that Wade testified in his favour at the 2005 trial, at this stage he was an adult and fully aware of what had happened to him (if it did happen) so why didn't he speak out then? It wasn't as if it was just his small voice against MJ's, if anything he would have been corroborating his experiences with those of Gavin Arvizo and adding clout to his testimony and more likely to have been believed. I just don't know and I guess we'll never know 100%.

 

[Youtubegossip]

Yeah I’m not convinced by the documentary having watched it.

However,
I still think a grown man wanting children to sleep in his bed isn’t innocent and even if nothing happened is crossing a HUGE boundary. No one would be okay with Roger from down the road doing it.

Also, didn’t one of the boys describe in great detail the marks on the underside of MJs penis which turned out to be accurate?

 

[Web30]

Reading today the wade and his wife actully wanted to get married at neverland!!

 

[Tublet83]

Yeah I’m not convinced by the documentary having watched it.

However,
I still think a grown man wanting children to sleep in his bed isn’t innocent and even if nothing happened is crossing a HUGE boundary. No one would be okay with Roger from down the road doing it.

Also, didn’t one of the boys describe in great detail the marks on the underside of MJs penis which turned out to be accurate?

This is exactly where I am with it all as well.

The boy that identified the detail on his penis was Jordy Chandler who received the payout and then went into hideout

 

[Web30]

This is exactly where I am with it all as well.

The boy that identified the detail on his penis was Jordy Chandler who received the payout and then went into hideout

Im sure it was all his step dads doing. Didnt he come out and say his dad made him lie about it all

 

[Youtubegossip]

Im sure it was all his step dads doing. Didnt he come out and say his dad made him lie about it all

How can you lie about the underside of a mans penis - who when checked matched the description - apparently there were marks where it had been bleached etc that you wouldn't know unless you saw it?

 

[Tublet83]

Im sure it was all his step dads doing. Didnt he come out and say his dad made him lie about it all

I read transcripts of the dad saying he was going to “trap” Jackson he later had plastic surgery so he couldn’t be traced and committed suicide. Jordy changed his identity from what I have read.

 

[Belleeyes]

I haven't had a chance to see the doc yet, but from what I've heard it could be convincing.

There's definitely something wrong, everyone can agree that sleeping with young boys is wrong even if nothing happened. Boundaries were crossed.

What I don't understand though, is the fact that the parents were okay with these sleepovers? Everyone is having a go at the parents of the Abuducted in Plain Sight documentary, quite rightly. Why isn't it as clear cut in this case?

I still am in two minds, having heard that there were lawsuits against Jackson's estate that didn't come to anything, and that they testified for him but now are coming out and saying they lied under oath?

It seems a bit suspect that now they aren't benefiting from their relationship with him, now they have produced this documentary.

Also I hate that on Twitter and elsewhere that people are saying that if I dont believe these two particular people I am victim blaming, and I am contributing to why victims don't come forward in a general sense.

I have no doubt the relationships were not conventional and definitely crossed some boundarys. But I also don't want to ignore that the parents continued to support these 'friendships' as they benefited from them on a lot of ways, as did these two men. Plus their testimonials under oath. I just don't think it is as clear cut I'm afraid.

 

[Mayday]

The Neverland Insiders Who Spoke Out Against Michael Jackson

Inspired by Dan Reed’s devastating Leaving Neverland, a look back at the handful of Jackson friends and family members who questioned the singer’s relationships with young boys.

www.vanityfair.com

Another man also came forward a couple of months ago but the article seems to be going around again:

'Michael Jackson called me Rubba Rubba in bed and I now realise he abused me'

EXCLUSIVE Michael Jacobs-hagen was just 14 when he joined the singer on a string of tours but now he's a dad himsef he realises he was abused

www.mirror.co.uk

I watched the second part and really feel for James...I mean I feel for Wade too but his family rub me the wrong way - mostly his mother. James's mother seems a bit dim but Wade's mother actively moved him out there after Michael saying 'leave him with me for a year'.

His dad's suicide is horrible and it seems his brother carries some guilt over it. Wade also comes across as less affected by things but I don't know if thats just because he seemed to throw himself into work.

 

[becca N]

How can you lie about the underside of a mans penis - who when checked matched the description - apparently there were marks where it had been bleached etc that you wouldn't know unless you saw it?

he also said he was circumsied and it came out that he wasnt

 

[MunkyMagic]

I just watched it and urgh, it was sickening. I believe Safechuck and Robson. I think (in Robson’s case) just because he’s a known liar doesn’t mean he can’t tell the truth, and in Safechuck’s case he is just hollowed. I watched bits of the Oprah interview before the documentary and looking back it again after hearing his testimony you can visibly see he’s curled in on himself.

They talk of the conflict of deeply loving and wanting to protect Jackson and not recognising their abuse for what it was until they could put it into context as an adult and parent. Robson also talks about the 2014 lawsuit as wanting the same forum to replay the 2003 one to put it “right” - that makes sense in terms of what we know about survivor guilt and wanting to reinact rescue scenarios. In 2003 he was trying to rescue Jackson and in 2014 he was trying to rescue other victims. It just all seems psychologically plausible.

I the case of chandler saying Jackson was circumcised when he wasn’t, without wanting to be too graphic I guess it’s possible for a 13 year old to understand that to be the case when seeing an erect adult penis with the foreskin pulled back and glans exposed.

I can understand people having difficulty believing Jackson would carry out such things, though. It’s a huge thing to reconcile.

 

[Horatio]

Yeah having watched it I don’t know how there can be much doubt, honestly. I found it totally horrifying but tragically credible. The two of them are clearly so deeply psychologically affected part of them still seems to love and revere him to this day - I don’t see someone lieing showing that complexity of emotional scarring.

And this article by the director is very eloquent.
It also addresses the money and testifying in his defence arguments.

https://www.theguardian.com/comment...michael-jackson-abuser?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

 

[Hepaticus]

I just watched it and urgh, it was sickening. I believe Safechuck and Robson. I think (in Robson’s case) just because he’s a known liar doesn’t mean he can’t tell the truth, and in Safechuck’s case he is just hollowed. I watched bits of the Oprah interview before the documentary and looking back it again after hearing his testimony you can visibly see he’s curled in on himself.

They talk of the conflict of deeply loving and wanting to protect Jackson and not recognising their abuse for what it was until they could put it into context as an adult and parent. Robson also talks about the 2014 lawsuit as wanting the same forum to replay the 2003 one to put it “right” - that makes sense in terms of what we know about survivor guilt and wanting to reinact rescue scenarios. In 2003 he was trying to rescue Jackson and in 2014 he was trying to rescue other victims. It just all seems psychologically plausible.

I the case of chandler saying Jackson was circumcised when he wasn’t, without wanting to be too graphic I guess it’s possible for a 13 year old to understand that to be the case when seeing an erect adult penis with the foreskin pulled back and glans exposed.

I can understand people having difficulty believing Jackson would carry out such things, though. It’s a huge thing to reconcile.

Yes and there were a few things they said which it would unlikely for them to conjure up from their own imaginations, although I suppose they could have spoken to child abuse victims and read reflective writings of victims. That ability to still love your abuser deeply, to envy their current victims in a way. The way their lives spiralled particularly after having children and that inner battle as to why they feel horror at the thought of their own child being abused but not feeling that about themselves. Then their feelings towards their own mothers. And the fallout among each family.

If they’ve faked it they’ve done some deep, deep research. But I guess you might if you wanted huge amounts of money.

 

[Eirawen]

Those 2 guys swore that nothing happened to them and that Michael was innocent of sex abuse, suddeny they "ready to tell their story" and I smell a rat, its also quite handy that MJ has been dead for nearly 10 years and can't defend himself.

 

[Youtubegossip]

Those 2 guys swore that nothing happened to them and that Michael was innocent of sex abuse, suddeny they "ready to tell their story" and I smell a rat, its also quite handy that MJ has been dead for nearly 10 years and can't defend himself.

I’m still torn tbh.

They are in a weird mental space ( if true ) that MJ was their idol, and did so much for them and literally made their dreams come true, whilst at the same time doing terrible things to them (allegedly)

It’s kind of like them still love him whilst at the same time hating him.
That must really f**k you up.

 

[Web30]

Exclusive Interview: Michael Jackson’s Niece, Who Dated Leaving Neverland Star Wade Robson, Explains Why She’s Sure He’s Lying

What if I told you that there was person named Brandi Jackson, directly related to Michael, who fully admits to having a long-term relationship with Wade Robson, one of the two accusers in HBO’s Leaving Neverland who now claims to have been horrifically sexually abused by the pop icon for seven...

www.mediaite.com

An interview with his niece. So intresting... After MJ died wades mum was trying to get them to hand the kids to her saying thats what he wanted.