I think all this stuff about mj is really “bad” and it would be a great book to write in the “thriller” section and if he was alive now I bet he wouldn’t be able look at that “man in the mirror” and be proud. One of his victims mum “billie jean” is still haunted by this. Sad times
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Sick as 
I’m very torn by the whole thing....Wade robson is a known liar! He burnt a lot of bridges with people MJ introduced him too he only came out with all these allegations after he was dropped as choreographer on the this is it tour..up until that point he sang MJs praises...but fishy if you ask me.
Another excellent must read piece( especially for those not sure) - an interview with the director
https://slate.com/culture/2019/03/leaving-neverland-michael-jackson-dan-reed-interview.html
https://slate.com/culture/2019/03/leaving-neverland-michael-jackson-dan-reed-interview.html
Very common to defend and lie for your abuser. A great many abused children take it to the grave, so that part of this doesn’t seem off to me.
Yeah as the director says in the interview linked above, the documentary is in a way more a study of the long term impact of child abuse on its victims than some kind of scandalous exposè of MJ. They both talk about him in such a similar way - though very upset you can tell their childhood adoration is still with them. Though their logical, adult side know the horror of what was done to them, there’s really no anger or malice towards him. He brainwashed them so thoroughly as children even death and adulthood can’t fully fix it. It’s tragic but facisnating.
And yes it’s what most child abusers do - as they are usually family members or friends. But I think something about the colossal level of his celebrity made his power over people even stronger. the two of them show such similar responses - but are not allowed to be in contact according to that article - it’s almost inconveivable that they could both pull off acts of such complexity if it was all a big lie.
And as has also been pointed out, why shouldn’t they ask for money? They were raped for years as children by one of the richest singers that ever lived. It’s their right to take that to court and sue for damages. As if that will get their childhood back.
(Apologies for lumping Wade and Jimmy together I know their cases do have some differences - it was partly for the sake of the argument and partly because I do confuse some of the stories and details)
Just finished watching it and there's no doubt in my mind that they are telling the truth. Was horrifying listening to them recall the way Michael used his power to abuse them
I used to be a big michael jackson fan especially as a kid (it waned off once he started really butchering his face)
Even today, his concert was the best I'd ever seen. he really knew how to put on a show. However as an older teenager, I remember feeling jealous that Michael spent so much time with little kids, and not someone who, like me was around 16 or 17 years old. I remember thinking then, something is wrong but I don't know what it is.
When the stories first acme out about Michael and kids, I refused to believe it, because I thought they were money grubbing. I remember watching Martyn Bashir's interview and feeling as if he treated Michael appallingly.
I watched Leaving Neverland on catchup as I was in two minds about watching it. however, I'm glad I did. I've since began to read news articles and the maids interview on youtube and that led me to re-watching the Martin Bashir documentary.
I hadn't seen it for a long time, and now I am really intuitive. I was so shocked to be watching the same show and this time I could see and tell when Michael was lying, and he was lying A LOT about EVERYTHING! Honestly, now I understand, great music, great dancer, he knew evils we will never understand as a child, but I believe without a doubt he did abuse young boys.
My heart goes out to those young boys, it really does. i was such a big fan of his that if he had come on to me at that age I'd prob have fallen for it too. Honestly, I hate thinking i thought him the best person when in fact he seems to have been a wolf in sheeps clothing. Horrific for all concerned. And no he cannot blame his upbringing, even if he was abused himself, he should surely know enough to not be that way!
Now Im believeing also those stories that I read ages ago that Jackson had enough of the nosy parents interfering and suing so he adopted 3 children of his own, that he had two genetically chosen to both be boys, and did away with the mothers right after the births.
I believe he very likely abused his own sons, and that's the reason he had them, and the reason he made sure they were not bio related as that made it ok in his twisted mind, like the way he 'married' other boys. Honestly, it sickens me. He was not a nice man. Just, awful.
If that is the case, they know they can never speak out about it or the final nail will be in the coffin and it will be their fault! Now I get why Paris has tried to suicide before hitting 16 years old even and is acting out in so many ways inc hundreds of tattoos. It's just the worst.
I'm also really mad at all the enablers!!! Bloody woman who had those kids for him, yes money talks but that was not right. he literally snatched those babies the moment they were born and their mother was okay with that! I also believe he lied a lot about that too, he looked so shifty saying she agreed he could snatch Paris before she even had been cleaned up!
According to his maid there were sooo many boys he abused, they are all out there keeping silent as they don't want the hassle. Jeesh.
This is interesting too:
www.dailymail.co.uk
Even today, his concert was the best I'd ever seen. he really knew how to put on a show. However as an older teenager, I remember feeling jealous that Michael spent so much time with little kids, and not someone who, like me was around 16 or 17 years old. I remember thinking then, something is wrong but I don't know what it is.
When the stories first acme out about Michael and kids, I refused to believe it, because I thought they were money grubbing. I remember watching Martyn Bashir's interview and feeling as if he treated Michael appallingly.
I watched Leaving Neverland on catchup as I was in two minds about watching it. however, I'm glad I did. I've since began to read news articles and the maids interview on youtube and that led me to re-watching the Martin Bashir documentary.
I hadn't seen it for a long time, and now I am really intuitive. I was so shocked to be watching the same show and this time I could see and tell when Michael was lying, and he was lying A LOT about EVERYTHING! Honestly, now I understand, great music, great dancer, he knew evils we will never understand as a child, but I believe without a doubt he did abuse young boys.
My heart goes out to those young boys, it really does. i was such a big fan of his that if he had come on to me at that age I'd prob have fallen for it too. Honestly, I hate thinking i thought him the best person when in fact he seems to have been a wolf in sheeps clothing. Horrific for all concerned. And no he cannot blame his upbringing, even if he was abused himself, he should surely know enough to not be that way!
Now Im believeing also those stories that I read ages ago that Jackson had enough of the nosy parents interfering and suing so he adopted 3 children of his own, that he had two genetically chosen to both be boys, and did away with the mothers right after the births.
I believe he very likely abused his own sons, and that's the reason he had them, and the reason he made sure they were not bio related as that made it ok in his twisted mind, like the way he 'married' other boys. Honestly, it sickens me. He was not a nice man. Just, awful.
If that is the case, they know they can never speak out about it or the final nail will be in the coffin and it will be their fault! Now I get why Paris has tried to suicide before hitting 16 years old even and is acting out in so many ways inc hundreds of tattoos. It's just the worst.
I'm also really mad at all the enablers!!! Bloody woman who had those kids for him, yes money talks but that was not right. he literally snatched those babies the moment they were born and their mother was okay with that! I also believe he lied a lot about that too, he looked so shifty saying she agreed he could snatch Paris before she even had been cleaned up!
According to his maid there were sooo many boys he abused, they are all out there keeping silent as they don't want the hassle. Jeesh.
This is interesting too:
Michael Jackson 'was using Lisa Marie Presley to acquire Elvis' music'
Adrian McManus, who worked for four years as Michael Jackson's personal maid at Neverland ranch, claims that the King of Pop played Lisa Marie Presley as a 'fool'.
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I watched an interview with LMP and she pretty much says MJ wasn’t anything like he presented to the public; he was astute business-wise and knew his “child like” persona kept him protected, ensured fans loved him and therefore made him money.
He also bought the Beatles back catalogue after taking Paul McCsrtneys advice on investing in music publishing. Bet Macca didn’t anticipate that one when doling our advice.
He also bought the Beatles back catalogue after taking Paul McCsrtneys advice on investing in music publishing. Bet Macca didn’t anticipate that one when doling our advice.
I think to have a solid conversation on this topic, we all need to drop tabloid articles and “I read this...” “he did that according to this paper...” - it doesn’t help anyone.
From the perspective of actual science and psychology, they’re either the best actors/behaviour mimics in the world with an in depth researched story or they’re telling the truth. The entire world was groomed to adore MJ, so it was a weird relationship between him and the boys from the get go. The families and parents were also groomed, that’s how abusers work. Look at Ian Watkins and his crimes (don’t they’re horrific - he groomed his fans to gain access to their children).
Just because some people say it didn’t happen to person a, doesn’t mean it didn’t happen to person b. So Corey Feldman and Macauley Culkin are irrelevant unless they were with MJ and/or the boys at all times. But as they were also young, they were susceptible to the grooming going on.
Now onto “well they said it didn’t happen before” - Stockholm syndrome and grooming. They’re still somewhat caught in the web. The amount of grooming and abuse (not just physical) psychologically damages children. Inconsistencies with the stories shouldn’t just mean they get thrown away because it’s not timelined perfectly - if it were, that’s too perfect for accurate memory and actually shows evidence of lies tbh.
Either way, MJ was an absolute creep. No grown ass man should be even asking for random children to stay at his house. Whether he committed these atrocities or not is by the by, he was a weirdo period. These men shouldn’t be harassed or abused or called liars - there’s no evidence either way. And that’s the take the Jackson family, friends and fans should take - I’m sad these allegations have come out, but unfortunately MJ isn’t here to defend himself, and if he had we’d co-operate fully with the justice system etc. Doubling down is never a good look (cough Creepy Ingham cough)
But that’s just me, and my take.
From the perspective of actual science and psychology, they’re either the best actors/behaviour mimics in the world with an in depth researched story or they’re telling the truth. The entire world was groomed to adore MJ, so it was a weird relationship between him and the boys from the get go. The families and parents were also groomed, that’s how abusers work. Look at Ian Watkins and his crimes (don’t they’re horrific - he groomed his fans to gain access to their children).
Just because some people say it didn’t happen to person a, doesn’t mean it didn’t happen to person b. So Corey Feldman and Macauley Culkin are irrelevant unless they were with MJ and/or the boys at all times. But as they were also young, they were susceptible to the grooming going on.
Now onto “well they said it didn’t happen before” - Stockholm syndrome and grooming. They’re still somewhat caught in the web. The amount of grooming and abuse (not just physical) psychologically damages children. Inconsistencies with the stories shouldn’t just mean they get thrown away because it’s not timelined perfectly - if it were, that’s too perfect for accurate memory and actually shows evidence of lies tbh.
Either way, MJ was an absolute creep. No grown ass man should be even asking for random children to stay at his house. Whether he committed these atrocities or not is by the by, he was a weirdo period. These men shouldn’t be harassed or abused or called liars - there’s no evidence either way. And that’s the take the Jackson family, friends and fans should take - I’m sad these allegations have come out, but unfortunately MJ isn’t here to defend himself, and if he had we’d co-operate fully with the justice system etc. Doubling down is never a good look (cough Creepy Ingham cough)
But that’s just me, and my take.
Does anyone know if there is any truth behind Jackson’s dad getting him chemically castrated?
(There’s also the argument that a person doesn’t age beyond the year they became famous)
Not that it would excuse his actions in any way but it would explain it to some degree.
If he did have the mind of a child he could have possibly just originally wanted to play and spend time with people that had the same mindset and intellect as him. Also it’s not uncommon for young teens to explore their sexuality together/their bodies/practise kissing etc. So maybe he thought he was doing that.
BUT then again, the actions accused by the men in the documentary are very graphic and advanced for what a teen (in my opinion) would be exploring with friends/others his age.
And again I’m even saying teen which is older than the the boys he chose to spend his time with.
It’s just something that keeps bothering me about this. Was he a child in his mind?
(There’s also the argument that a person doesn’t age beyond the year they became famous)
Not that it would excuse his actions in any way but it would explain it to some degree.
If he did have the mind of a child he could have possibly just originally wanted to play and spend time with people that had the same mindset and intellect as him. Also it’s not uncommon for young teens to explore their sexuality together/their bodies/practise kissing etc. So maybe he thought he was doing that.
BUT then again, the actions accused by the men in the documentary are very graphic and advanced for what a teen (in my opinion) would be exploring with friends/others his age.
And again I’m even saying teen which is older than the the boys he chose to spend his time with.
It’s just something that keeps bothering me about this. Was he a child in his mind?
Wow I had no idea Joe Jackson sexually abused his children. WTF now it all makes sense. I always said Michael must have been sexually abused as child he learnt it from somewhere, I assumed his father beat him and producers abused him possibly but now I see it was WAY more than that. Is that the only way he thought love was? Wow. So many of the Jackson 5 spoke about the abuse and yet Joe didn't go to jail?!
I was a Michael Jackson fan (not fanatic) and was ready to disbelieve them. Having watched it all and other interviews, such as Oprah I have NO doubt he was a very powerful, manipulative paedophile. I believe every word those two men shared.
Just because a predator is dead, does not mean we should discount the victims and in this case does not make his HIDEOUS crimes forgivable.
Just because a predator is dead, does not mean we should discount the victims and in this case does not make his HIDEOUS crimes forgivable.
Not just them. Apparently some of his brothers kids went through it as well, not sure if it was joe but someone else in the family
Does anyone think Justin Bieber is an adult living with abuse as a child? He is def not right, and he was mixing in this rife world too when he was underage.
www.dailymail.co.uk
Justin Bieber gets kisses from Hailey Baldwin amid 'struggling'
The 25-year-old Baby singer took to Instagram on Tuesday to share cute videos of himself traveling with his 22-year-old wife.
Justin definitely has issues but where they stem from who knows. He did go off the rails and fame got to his head a bit and he was doing a lot of substance abuse ( he’s admitted that as far as I know. But who knows if it goes deeper than just ‘not handling the fame’Does anyone think Justin Bieber is an adult living with abuse as a child? He is def not right, and he was mixing in this rife world too when he was underage.
Justin Bieber gets kisses from Hailey Baldwin amid 'struggling'
The 25-year-old Baby singer took to Instagram on Tuesday to share cute videos of himself traveling with his 22-year-old wife.
View attachment 8172
Sadly many many child actors go absolutely off the rails or end up even worse and killing themselves or taking too many drugs etc
I'm not sure if he ever actually met MJ...he would've been like 15 or so when he died and all of the 'pictures' I've seen of them together are of him after that so I think they're photoshopped. (You can tell by his hair as he had that weird bowl/swoop cut then)Does anyone think Justin Bieber is an adult living with abuse as a child? He is def not right, and he was mixing in this rife world too when he was underage.
Justin Bieber gets kisses from Hailey Baldwin amid 'struggling'
The 25-year-old Baby singer took to Instagram on Tuesday to share cute videos of himself traveling with his 22-year-old wife.
View attachment 8172
I do think Justin has been through a lot though. His dad in particular seems like a typical stage parent. I also don't think being with Hillsong is helping as I have nothing against religion, but it seems more like a cult then just a regular Christian church.