Michael Jackson

[Youtubegossip]

Jimmy Saville is dead and can’t defend himself, Doesn’t mean he wasn’t a weirdo ffs.

MJ is such an icon that people don’t WANT to believe it. There’s a lot of evidence and statements from other people that don’t look good on him

He was never going to say when he was alive ‘yeah I’m into young boys’ was he. Let’s be realistic

 

[Youtubegossip]

I just think that once a person is dead it should be laid to rest.

Why should it? The people who if it’s true are now traumatised by it can’t be at rest. Maybe the truth coming out can help them move on?

We’re all jimmy savilles victims told to just leave it? Can’t believe you’d even suggest it. Because it’s MJ it’s different?

 

[Boogs]

I absolutely believe that Michael Jackson was a victim of abuse as a child and I feel huge compassion for little Michael. I also think that adult Michael was a predatory serial abuser who groomed and abused lots of kids. He can be both a victim and a perpetrator. If this was Joe Bloggs from the local pub nobody would be suggesting his bad childhood made him childlike so it was ok to sleep naked with young boys.

 

[Dotty Merton]

This thread always alarms me, the clarity vs the denial, blows my mind.

Just imagine he is a bloke called Barry who lives on your street. Are you letting your kids go sleep overs with this....

 

[Yano]

I get conflicted about the historic sexual abuse cases.

I think we all knew there was something about Jimmy Savile which was sinister.

The artist formerly known as Prince Andrew I'm not saying he didn't know or do anything but I also don't believe that people should be considered guilty by association.

Michael Jackson I find difficult. I verge more towards innocence. I think he had a shit childhood, he was beaten and was working from the age of 5. He was more in the spotlight than a lot of other "child stars" who have had issues. I think he came across as sincere and honest when he speaks about the allegations. Other people around him didn't see that side to him including Culkin and Feldman (who has spoken for years about abuse in Hollywood).

So my heart wants to believe that he is innocent and he built Neverland and wanted to be around children to experience a childhood he never had.

Ultimately he was made to settle the 1993 case and was aquitted in 2005. I think there are problems with the accounts of his accusers and the settlement of the case in 1993 probably has made it easier to convince people of his guilt.

Having seen a lot on social media the past couple of weeks after the movie the press were absolute scum to him. Meghan Markle talks about being trolled but the 1990s press were just vile and I'm not sure that Michael and his team really knew how to deal with it. He never denied having children stay at Neverland even in his bedroom, you wouldn't get a celebrity saying anything remotely close to that now. Was this being him playing the press or being naive?

I want to believe people who claim abuse but I also find that difficult at times because it is so hard to prove or disprove either way. Are the people coming out now just wanting a payday as the estate has become so valuable? It seems like they have had financial issues and during his life Michael was used as a but of a cash cow.

The whole situation is just sad. Either the most talented artist we have had abused his position or his kindness and being somewhat naive has allowed bad actors to tarnish his reputation for both his fans and, perhaps more importantly, his children.

Sorry but his behaviour is literally textbook grooming behaviour of the entire families of the victims. If it was a random man and not a beloved popular you are a fan of you'd believe it very easily. Look at the shit thats come out about other pedophile celebrities! But just because Micheal had a bad childhood he must be innocent

 

[Miss Havisham]

I feel that many people overlook the likelihood that he could be both falsely accused (by some, not by all) and also a paedophile.
I think it’s too easy to pick holes in the accounts of some his accusers - as it is very likely that some accusations against him could well be false. This does not discredit the accounts of his victims - and I also take note that many of his victims will forever remain silent.

It is more than “odd” behaviour. No adult man needs to sleep with other peoples children - but he absolutely refused to stop doing it. He was gaslighting us, that it’s the most natural thing in the world - to have children in your bed.
It is not.

I can’t recall (as a woman), having another child in my bed - that was not my own. I suppose it may have happened briefly (though I can’t recall it). There may well have been times that a young niece or nephew got in to my bed briefly when I was staying over with my adult siblings - to either say good morning or good night, but certainly never to spend the night with me. They wouldn’t have wanted to - and I wouldn’t want them in there with me either.

It is absolutely not normal for an adult man to arrange for children to sleep with him, in his bed.
I do feel that he was full on gaslighting us that it’s normal for him, as this unique Peter Pan figure.
He was not Peter Pan, he was a grown man. I will not be told by anyone - that his predatory behaviour was normal. It was not.

 

[PurvyPanda]

On watching the recent BBC documentary (and then reading various articles, that I did not pay attention to back in the day). I now believe that he was grooming and abusing children, I think it was likely that he was also falsely accused by some - but not by all of his accusers, I think it’s also very likely, that some victims haven’t and won’t speak out.

The recent bbc documentary is very informative, it’s not sensationalist- but presents the timeline in a way that was not clear to me, previously.
He comes across as a very manipulative, calculating man.

There was a good documentary Louis Theroux did about Michael before MJ died. In it he interviewed a man from the north of England, who had befriended Michael Jackson as a child in the 70’s, after he did an interview with him, I think for a fan magazine. They would talk on the phone at all times. He often recorded the conversations and kept them. During one conversations he knew that Michael Jackson was masturbating as they were speaking. Even as an adult, this man seemed very reluctant to go after Michael Jackson for this. You could see he was really torn and didn’t want to speak badly of him, even though he knew what he did was wrong.

I’m afraid there is just too much evidence stacked against Michael Jackson to just completely dismiss that he has any guilt whatsoever. Even if you were to remove the accusations, an adult hanging out with small children, very often in intimate situations whether there are no parents around, having sleep overs. WHAT?!!
No adult would be excused from that behaviour. I think the fact that his fans will insistent that he did NOTHING wrong, is quite sickening. And this whole - justifying what he did because he didn’t have a childhood. That whole spin IS grooming. He groomed his fans to do his bidding for him. It’s so gross.

No other adult would be excused in the same way Michael Jackson has been.

 

[Peeltheavocado]

I just think that once a person is dead it should be laid to rest.

I’ve only just started reading this thread but had to say something about this comment.
Sorry but this comment disgusts me. I’m a survivor of childhood trauma, my partner was sexually abused, I have friends who were sexually abused. Some of those abusers are dead. Some were brought to justice and some weren’t. It’s NEVER laid to rest for the victims of abuse, NEVER

 

[skysky101]

I always think of it as if my dad came home one day and said to me, "i had a really bad childhood so i have bought this 10 year old boy home to sleep in the same bed as me". I would call the police. You wouldn't accept that from anyone else but because it's Michael Jackson his fans say that's ok.

 

[Youtubegossip]

Wasn't it proven years ago that he wasn't guilty? And let's face it who lets there child sleep round a mans house?
Micheal was allowed custody of all his children, so obviously the social didn't think he was a danger.
Yes MJ was weird but I honestly believe he was to child like to actually do anything to these boys.
Jimmy Saville on the other hand looked dirty and perverted.

At the end of the day I'm just stating my opinion, were all entitled to our own opinion.

Haha now your being ridiculous.

Jimmy Saville looked dirty and perverted? What do Peados look like?? They can be anywhere amongst us, they don’t all look ‘like peados’

I agree with ‘what kind of parent let’s their child share a bed with a grown man’ but again these boys were children so that is MJ and their parents faults. You’re basically victim shaming...

Also, he wasn’t found not guilty he settled out of court to make it go away.

With copious amounts of money comes a lot of power. Let’s not forget he hung his baby out of a window either.

Not exactly coming out of the woodwork AFTER he was dead..
https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.independent.co.uk/news/people/michael-jackson-paid-134-million-in-payoffs-to-stop-up-to-20-sex-abuse-victims-speaking-out-say-10159103.html?amp

Also, yes your more than entitled to your opinion. But saying people shouldn’t come out just because someone is dead, or saville was a weirdo because he looked like one and MJ didn’t etc etc is just ill informed

 

[shellie]

These photo's...

http://archive.today/f9A4P

Again it will be defended but I want everyone who does to answer this...if it came out Michael Jackson the plumber who lived down the street was having strange kids in his bed and tons of pictures of them half naked were found., would they rush to defend him?

Furthermore, would they let their own kids be alone with him.....it's funny the amount of supporters who swear he is innocent that either refuse to answer this or try and change the subject when asked because you know there is no way they would be fine with it but if they admitted that, it tells you all you need to know.

 

[MarshMallowMonster]

Would we feel the same if Fred the Plumbwr from down the road declared publicly to anyone who’d listen that he shares his bed with other people’s small kids and that it’s natural.

MJ did just that. Declared on camera how it’s ok and beautiful to share his bed with other people’s small kids.

MJ was in a position to groom, a revered and talented star. A self-styled Peter Pan of Pop with his own funfair and zoo. Dazzled parents offered their kids to him. This is all well documented.

His kids are surrogate kids. I don’t believe he ever had a loving sexual relationship with a stable adult woman. I think he was attracted to kids.

Logic dictates he messed with kids. He was not asexual, some of his songs are very sexual. The crotch grabbing dances etc. MJ had sexual urges and a queue of young kids waiting to share his bed.

Hiding in plain sight, enabled and protected by those on a pay roll.

I was a fan too, saw him in a very amazing concert.

But not since he outed himself for sharing beds with kids.

 

[Boogs]

I think it’s really important to remember that lots of survivors of childhood sexual abuse never disclose it to anyone or some don’t until their abuser has been dead for many years. He was an expert at grooming boys and they felt like they were in a relationship with him and that it wasn’t abuse. They felt like they had to protect him.

I’m a very open and outspoken person but a few weeks ago I disclosed things that had happened to me 35 years ago and this was the first time I’d ever said it out loud. The reasons why people don’t disclose things even when directly asked are complex and I think that we shouldn’t question people’s credibility because they didn’t speak out earlier.

 

[Upintheair83]

I think the film is typical Jacksons- using MJ to get their money rolling in.
I do think its nice for Prince and Blanket to celebrate their dad for his musical achievements. They've lived most of their lives hearing the allegations about their father, discussing their father as though he wasn't their dad just because they dont share the same DNA. And so, for them, I'm really pleased they can celebrate him and what he achieved in his professional life and have something that isnt tainted with controversy.
Whatever anyone thinks of MJ now, he was a pioneer in the music industry, especially for black artists and his achievements in music were groundbreaking. He was genius.

I was a massive fan of MJ but as iv grown older, I do see him in a more 'real' light now. He displayed massive red flags and I certainly wouldn't have allowed him near my child.
Every box of how to spot a predator, he does tick.....having said that I do strongly believe that Michael was a victim himself.
I really believe when he was little boy he was most probably abused. (I don't mean just by his father, I think the physical abuse was separate) But he was a young kid, in rooms and studios with older men. Powerful men. And we only have to look at Epstein and the rumours that go around in hollywood about powerful men...He would also be on the road with his brothers from a young age, in nightclubs- around all sorts of men. Safeguarding wasn't really a thing back then either. You only have to see how damaged Justin Bieber is now, to see how child stars are almost doomed from the start. I'm not excusing his behaviour, I'm not saying that the abused always abuse either. Because they don't.
I dont think Michael was a 'normal' person, with 'normal' experiences either, so it's almost inevitable that he turned out the way he did. I think alot of his eccentricities bore out of him not understanding himself -He was a total narcissist, ego driven, he wasn't emotionally intelligent either- he seemed stuck emotionally in his teenage years with no one ever really on his side, or to look out for him or to guide him. And so il be honest, I do feel sorry for the young Michael Jackson, that little boy who did just want to play- I don't think he ever had a chance, and I think he was pimped out in more ways than one. I'm not condoning his choices as an adult at all, but I will always have empathy for him as a child.
I don't believe all of his accusers either, there are some I really struggle to take seriously but I do think they should all have their voices heard and people to make their own minds up- every victim should be listened to.
But Michael Jackson never stood a chance either.

 

[Inkling95]

I think to have a solid conversation on this topic, we all need to drop tabloid articles and “I read this...” “he did that according to this paper...” - it doesn’t help anyone.

From the perspective of actual science and psychology, they’re either the best actors/behaviour mimics in the world with an in depth researched story or they’re telling the truth. The entire world was groomed to adore MJ, so it was a weird relationship between him and the boys from the get go. The families and parents were also groomed, that’s how abusers work. Look at Ian Watkins and his crimes (don’t they’re horrific - he groomed his fans to gain access to their children).

Just because some people say it didn’t happen to person a, doesn’t mean it didn’t happen to person b. So Corey Feldman and Macauley Culkin are irrelevant unless they were with MJ and/or the boys at all times. But as they were also young, they were susceptible to the grooming going on.

Now onto “well they said it didn’t happen before” - Stockholm syndrome and grooming. They’re still somewhat caught in the web. The amount of grooming and abuse (not just physical) psychologically damages children. Inconsistencies with the stories shouldn’t just mean they get thrown away because it’s not timelined perfectly - if it were, that’s too perfect for accurate memory and actually shows evidence of lies tbh.

Either way, MJ was an absolute creep. No grown ass man should be even asking for random children to stay at his house. Whether he committed these atrocities or not is by the by, he was a weirdo period. These men shouldn’t be harassed or abused or called liars - there’s no evidence either way. And that’s the take the Jackson family, friends and fans should take - I’m sad these allegations have come out, but unfortunately MJ isn’t here to defend himself, and if he had we’d co-operate fully with the justice system etc. Doubling down is never a good look (cough Creepy Ingham cough)

But that’s just me, and my take.

 

[Tuesdaysdoll14]

Oh MJ was a raging nonce, just like Epstein, who had the finances, and power to buy people off. The actual shiver I get when you watch the Bahir interview and see him gleefully admitting to sharing a bed with a boy of 12 with cancer and talking in depth about it. Ugh. Those books of naked children the FBI found that he called “art”. Sick bastard. When you see about the court, the jurors jamming to his music etc as it’s played it court. It’s a farce

but the parents should’ve been accountable as well. Fuck pay outs, they should’ve been in trouble. At what point are you trafficking your own child by letting them sleep in a 40 year old man’s bed? Especially after previous allegations.

 

[Tuesdaysdoll14]

Let’s say that MJ didn’t touch kids (he did) but let’s say he didn’t. He still had young children he was not related to in his bed, alone. Bought them gifts.

If a man down the street said let your 12 year old son sleep in my bed, play on the rides in my garden and I’ll buy him presents are you saying you’d say yes?! Nah, you’d say fuck off you dirty pervert.

You cannot separate the grooming and disgust of it all just because MJ has a few good songs. He’s a groomer. People argue he didn’t touch his own kids. Most paedophiles don’t actually touch their own children.

Lack of evidence? Well MJ didn’t need to have tons of child SA material did he really? He had a carousel of young kids in his actual bed . His court case was a farce as well. Jurors dancing to his music in the stands? It was a joke.

 

[CookieMonsta]

I just want to say is anyone surprised so many parents demanded money when they were the kind of parents who let their kids sleep in Jackson's bed tbw??

 

[Abominatrix]

I always think of it as if my dad came home one day and said to me, "i had a really bad childhood so i have bought this 10 year old boy home to sleep in the same bed as me". I would call the police. You wouldn't accept that from anyone else but because it's Michael Jackson his fans say that's ok.

He's the only practicing pedophile I can think of who has so many people wanting to understand his reasoning and the abuse he suffered. Anyone else it's very rightly immediate disgust.

As we go through this Epstein exposure, more people are starting to come to terms with the idea that powerful men tend to engage in sex abuse of the vulnerable. Jackson is routinely classed with the vulnerable, rather than his actual status as a very powerful man.

 

[Abominatrix]

The burden of proof in a criminal trial is very high. Guilt must be proven beyond the shadow of a doubt.

Failing to get a guilty verdict does not mean the person on trial was innocent, only that it could not be proven beyond the shadow of a doubt.

Look at the OJ Simpson trial. Does anyone still believe that man didn't murder his ex-wife and her boyfriend? But he was found not guilty.