im not making a comment on them being responsible or not though, just pointing out that it was understandable that Gerry got pissed when he was asked to explain the dogs signaling
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If my daughter had gone missing I would do everything I coulD to cooperate with the police. No way would I do anything to annoy them or hamper their investigations.
Parents are responsible for their childrens safety & welfare. Children are literally dependents. If something goes wrong because you neglected their safety then yeah you are responsible for what then transpires.
Leaving your three very young children (aged three and twin two year olds) alone in an unlocked apartment with street access so you can go out for a fun evening meal & drinks with your mates while abroad is more than poor parenting. I will never be able to fathom it or any defence of it as some of slip up or poor judgement, mistake etc. That they had other options like baby sitter, listening service, family friendly buffet restaurant, makes it even worse. It’s not like someone held a gun to their heads and forced them to become parents.
One thing that sums it up for me is I read in the transcripts somewhere Gerry referring to one of the days on holiday as their ‘family day’. But it was the only day of the week the crèche was closed. Selfish hole.
Leaving your three very young children (aged three and twin two year olds) alone in an unlocked apartment with street access so you can go out for a fun evening meal & drinks with your mates while abroad is more than poor parenting. I will never be able to fathom it or any defence of it as some of slip up or poor judgement, mistake etc. That they had other options like baby sitter, listening service, family friendly buffet restaurant, makes it even worse. It’s not like someone held a gun to their heads and forced them to become parents.
One thing that sums it up for me is I read in the transcripts somewhere Gerry referring to one of the days on holiday as their ‘family day’. But it was the only day of the week the crèche was closed. Selfish hole.
im telling you, as a former professional, it isn’t about whether the dogs were accurate or not, it’s about whether there is collaborating evidence to support the signals the dogs made. That’s the only way we can really know if they are accurate.
The dna samples collected from the car were inconclusive - my understanding was the sample was too small and too complex to draw a conclusion.
in 2007, Dr John Lowe and a team of forensic scientists at the UK laboratory, Forensic Science Service (FSS), were tasked by Leicestershire police with analysing DNA samples from the case, including those taken from the car. His conclusion was the DNA samples were “too complex for meaningful interpretation”.
the Portuguese police weren’t happy with this result, and shortly afterwords a Portuguese newspaper claimed there was blood citing (I believe) the Portuguese police who claimed to have received results from elsewhere. I can’t find any further details of the lab or the results in any english news reports. Hypothetically speaking, if there was blood - there still isn’t enough evidence that there was a body and it wasn’t enough to allow the Portuguese police to charge the McCanns.
then there’s also the issue that the McCanns claimed Maddie was never even in the car, that they rented it after she’d gone missing. Again, if the police were halfway professional, they’d have checked and cleared this - checked bank statements and obtained witness statements from the car rental hire - before discussing compelling DNA evidence with the press.
I can’t find any reference or newspaper reports that state Kate claimed to have been new sea bass..? The only reference I can see is a blog which doesn’t cite sources
of course. But what if said police force were wholly unequipped to deal with missing persons? What if they conducted shoddy police work that jeopardised you ever getting your daughter back? What if, to cover their own arses, they pointed the finger at you? You’d probably feel a whole lot less collaborative.
ethically, people are free to judge Kate and Gerry if they want.
but it’s possible to blame them for leaving their kids and also recognise the Portuguese police botched it and then panicked
Of course the Police checked about the hire car … again if it’s crossed the mind of people posting on forums, chances are the police forces of 2 countries thought of it as well … at this point it was a joint investigation with Scotland Yard and the Portugese Police (in fact it was from the off) and it was Scotland Yard who initially steered the investigation the way of the holidaymakers. The dogs were brought over from England to be part of the investigation and you get the impression that the alerts actually came as a shock to the police as much as anyone else. The conclusion was, if I remember correctly, that the tests in the car were from transfer material on clothes and such like?
Most of what was said about the dogs and their alerts was said either by Gerry in his own blogs or his sister in versions articles.
I said from the start that if it had been Tracy and Gary from a council estate holidaying in Magaluf, they would have been absolutely crucified by the press and their lives would have been ruined. Social Services would also probably have taken the remaining kids into care.If those two and their Me Time had not been so important they would still have three children.
They chose to leave the children ostensibly asleep in the apartment to pursue their Adults Only dinner engagement with their mates - nobody else - if they'd not left their three little ones alone then this would not have happenned. OK it might perhaps have been any of the other children from the group who were left supposedly asleep when abducted (with the McCanns being the unlucky ones that night whom the abductor selected), but it does not alter the FACT that you simply DO NOT go out and leave the kids alone in a strange place in an unlocked apartment!
I'm wondering how different it would have been if it had been Tracy & Gary from some sink estate who went out on the razzle leaving their children alone in their apartment - how different would the reaction have been to them?
I remain resolute that I don't think these two paragons of parenthood killed the child but they sure as hell made it nice and easy for the abductor to walk in and snatch their daughter away leaving too many unanswered questionsThat they most certainly ARE guilty of;
Oh you’re telling me are you, sorry officer you must be entirely correct 
In fact I wasn’t referring to the hire care at all but the blood and spinal fluid on the walls, curtains and tiles where the markers confirmed madeleines dna, but as the bleach had destroyed most of it they couldn’t prosecute without all markers present.
Regarding the hire car the fluid was defrosting so the items that were infected had been transported from elsewhere to be disposed of, unless you’re saying they willingly saw the blood and fluids and yet placed their belongings on top to be infected, rather than call the police and the hire company like any normal person would.
Yes there wasn’t enough legal evidence so it was dropped, but anyone with common sense can put 2 and 2 together to make 4. The hire car was cleaned between families, if I hired a car with defrosting blood and fluid in the boot I’d have called the police, not placed my belongings on top to be infected with it.
At the end of the day this thread is about an innocent child who was failed by her parents and have since been more concerned about protecting themselves than giving Madeleine justice. Regardless of my opinion and the police facts, no one with a soul would morally defend those two.
In fact I wasn’t referring to the hire care at all but the blood and spinal fluid on the walls, curtains and tiles where the markers confirmed madeleines dna, but as the bleach had destroyed most of it they couldn’t prosecute without all markers present.
Regarding the hire car the fluid was defrosting so the items that were infected had been transported from elsewhere to be disposed of, unless you’re saying they willingly saw the blood and fluids and yet placed their belongings on top to be infected, rather than call the police and the hire company like any normal person would.
Yes there wasn’t enough legal evidence so it was dropped, but anyone with common sense can put 2 and 2 together to make 4. The hire car was cleaned between families, if I hired a car with defrosting blood and fluid in the boot I’d have called the police, not placed my belongings on top to be infected with it.
At the end of the day this thread is about an innocent child who was failed by her parents and have since been more concerned about protecting themselves than giving Madeleine justice. Regardless of my opinion and the police facts, no one with a soul would morally defend those two.
it was the NCA (or rather, a preceeding agency called the NPIA) who suggested the use of the dogs, who sent a National Search Advisor to Portugal at the request of the Portuguese police. He observed in a report that the sniffer dogs used previously, hasn’t been used correctly as per the handlers recommendations and he suggested other search measures.
the report was that the samples were inconclusive. You can’t tell if DNA has been transferred or not. DNA is DNA. You can tell if it’s a match to someone but you can’t tell how it got there. Theres no magic coding in DNA that differentiates between being left there by someone else or being left there by the individual.
I’m not a DNA expert but I’ve come across it, there are many reasons why it might be inconclusive. The sample was small, then there’s the fact that the twins, (who would’ve had a very close DNA profile to Marie, especially the girl) their dna would’ve been present in the car and muddling results.
I’m sorry but what? Dogs don’t “confirm DNA”Oh you’re telling me are you, sorry officer you must be entirely correct
In fact I wasn’t referring to the hire care at all but the blood and spinal fluid on the walls, curtains and tiles where the markers confirmed madeleines dna, but as the bleach had destroyed most of it they couldn’t prosecute without all markers present.
Regarding the hire car the fluid was defrosting so the items that were infected had been transported from elsewhere to be disposed of, unless you’re saying they willingly saw the blood and fluids and yet placed their belongings on top to be infected, rather than call the police and the hire company like any normal person would.
Yes there wasn’t enough legal evidence so it was dropped, but anyone with common sense can put 2 and 2 together to make 4. The hire car was cleaned between families, if I hired a car with defrosting blood and fluid in the boot I’d have called the police, not placed my belongings on top to be infected with it.
At the end of the day this thread is about an innocent child who was failed by her parents and have since been more concerned about protecting themselves than giving Madeleine justice. Regardless of my opinion and the police facts, no one with a soul would morally defend those two.
fluid defrosting?! What?! Why was this blood and supposed spinal fluid frozen if the search was conducted in July in Portugal?! Why would it have been frozen? Who identified it positively as spinal fluid? Where is there any mention of bleach anywhere, other than a rumoured smell of bleach being mentioned?
isn’t it immoral to ignore evidence or lack thereof and blame someone for murder based on rumour and conjecture? Isn’t that pretty immoral?
sure, judge them harshly for leaving their kids. But leaving their kids unattended and neglect, isn’t the same as murdering one and then covering it up.
What was the conclusion? Did they hire the car after Madeline disappeared or before?
The car was hired after Madeliene went missing. If I remember correctly they also spoke to people who had hired the car before the McCanns as well.
I think the feeling was that any alerts were to due transfer from items that had been in the car but I’m running on memory here.
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I think you need to go back to the very start of the case and read the police reports as you seem to be a little lost with the information you have. Nowhere did I say the dogs confirmed dna? My posts are regarding professionals testing blood and fluids, nothing to do with the dogs, as whether they alerted or not those blood traces still existed and they were mixed with bleach. Or that the mcanns murdered her? Putting words into my mouth that haven’t been said isn’t going to change the results. There are many people who overlook the important details choosing to only listen to the ones they prefer, like yourself, but as I said it’s about the child not the parents and the evidence can’t lie. why would police and forensics lie to set up the mccanns? Perhaps reading amaral’s book would help you see the facts of the case that the U.K. hid from the public.
When you have children they are priority before yourself, the mccanns have never shown that to be the case. I have nothing to say to anyone who thinks they are victims while evidence says otherwise.
For what it’s worth, as I fully believe evidence from all professionals and statements at the start of the case, those children were never left alone so I don’t judge them for that, but what happened after.
When you have children they are priority before yourself, the mccanns have never shown that to be the case. I have nothing to say to anyone who thinks they are victims while evidence says otherwise.
For what it’s worth, as I fully believe evidence from all professionals and statements at the start of the case, those children were never left alone so I don’t judge them for that, but what happened after.
Well Said! Sometimes people cant see the wood for the trees or refuse to!Oh you’re telling me are you, sorry officer you must be entirely correct
In fact I wasn’t referring to the hire care at all but the blood and spinal fluid on the walls, curtains and tiles where the markers confirmed madeleines dna, but as the bleach had destroyed most of it they couldn’t prosecute without all markers present.
Regarding the hire car the fluid was defrosting so the items that were infected had been transported from elsewhere to be disposed of, unless you’re saying they willingly saw the blood and fluids and yet placed their belongings on top to be infected, rather than call the police and the hire company like any normal person would.
Yes there wasn’t enough legal evidence so it was dropped, but anyone with common sense can put 2 and 2 together to make 4. The hire car was cleaned between families, if I hired a car with defrosting blood and fluid in the boot I’d have called the police, not placed my belongings on top to be infected with it.
At the end of the day this thread is about an innocent child who was failed by her parents and have since been more concerned about protecting themselves than giving Madeleine justice. Regardless of my opinion and the police facts, no one with a soul would morally defend those two.
shoddy Police work you say! mmm strange that the Gasper statements didn't make their way to the Algarve until after the MaCanns were back in Blighty!
Read the case files
oh and to add Dogs Don't Lie!
And not just once - several nights running.
Too true. You've only got to look as far as poor little Shannon Matthews really, who was an innocent victim following on from this case. Her deluded uneducated mother saw Maddie's case & emulated it completely. Let's pretend my child has been kidnapped as well & I'll have some of that publicity, public sympathy and money thank you. Makes me sick in one way, but in another at least her and her siblings are now safe & better cared for wherever they are.
Agree. Gerry strikes me as a cold, selfish, controlling bastard. And obvious that their holiday was booked and experienced with THEM in mind and not for the kiddies.
I think about Shannon and her siblings occasionally, i really hope they have a nice life now. That case sticks out in my mind
Shannon’s mother, well her behaviour was appalling. But her upbringing, background, life…. She didn’t know any better and maybe, just maybe, she thought she was doing the best for her children. Although I admit there was a lot of me me me in it.
Gerry, his education, his income, etc.
Which one is the most responsible and respectable?
The only good think to take away is that Shannon never went back home and has a new life.
Shannon Mathews mum was a very mixed up person. I think she has a learning disorder too. I don't like the way the papers came for her but not the men involved that were more than likely leadingit all.
I think it was because they were both white middle class and had respected jobs as medics that the case got the coverage.
Maddy was not differennt from any other cute kid that goes missing but the parents lives were different to the typical media story.
Or matbe that eas thr narrative. They had a good investogator on the case but the narrat8vr and the PR person being hired have a job to undo the negative backlash to their clients.
We see the PR creep in with other cases. Like Meridtih Kercher, Nora Quoirin (sorry if spelt wrong)
But these cases again had this PR spin.
It deflects from the seriousness of the investigations. Though I personally think thats the actual purpose.
Having worked in crisis PR years back you are desperate to change the press narrative and focus from yourself.
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