Lucy Letby Case #9

EllsBellsWells said:

Because I could understand if someone thought (only going off what we know so far) that rather than murdering babies she was an inept/dangerously bad staff member working amongst a sea of other incompetent and unbothered people who also weren’t willing to do their jobs properly.

If he came across as a top level, highly professional and entirely competent person (who did what he should have done) then this would be less of a possibility in my view. But he’s not and whether we like it or not he contributed to an appalling culture in which far too many babies died.


Editing to add as people have posted since- re ‘laying blame at his feet’… if he failed to do his job (which is what he’s admitting to) then all the blame in the world resulting from his actions should be laid at his feet considering people lost their poor babies over this. Him and anyone else who failed to do their duties should be held accountable. I am so angry and upset for all of these poor families.

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Well, yeh, let’s label all the other staff members as incompetent and unbothered.

Maybe some blame should be laid at the feet of the, potential, murderer.

slingo16 said:

Don’t make a fuss doesn’t sound very on the record to me

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deffo sounds off the record to me as well. No matter which way you look at it this was clearly a failing hospital that was very poorly managed in the first place for an alleged serial killer of babies to work there for so long and get away with it for so long.

slingo16 said:

Could he mean a private off the record conversation in which he raised concerns?

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I would think that then just becomes hearsay?

I can’t work out if this raising of concerns still relates to babies a&b? Or when he was concerned about baby K?
I can’t honestly believe that a Doctor would allow it to get to baby Q if he had these concerns? Is there seriously no other way to take this rather than to the people who told him not to make a fuss?

Tofino said:

I don’t know when he’s saying he raised them but even if it was after child B or after child K, he’s saying he raised concerns but they were dismissed by bosses. I find that plausible because whether this was negligence or murder, it’s pretty obvious the bosses didn’t do enough until child Q.

I totally agree he should have taken it elsewhere if he was knocked back but just because he didn’t doesn’t make him a liar. If anything I think him admitting he didn’t do enough makes him more credible. I just don’t see what he has to gain by lying.

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Exactly, people are fit to lynch him after this. I don't think he is lying. I don't think ANY of these Dr's, nurses, specialists or parents have been lying or "misremembering".
They are damning themselves by being as honest as they are right now.
Where is this unadulterated rage towards Letby, the person who is actually on trial? I'm so confused by people's take on this, I really am at a loss.

I’m dipping out until tomorrow. Bye for now folks.

Haveyouanywool said:

I’m dipping out until tomorrow. Bye for now folks.

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Good idea.

Emmelina Ball said:

I’ve had it happen to me too. I ended up reporting to regulatory bodies because the trust didn’t take my complaints seriously. The backlash after is horrible too. I felt like my manager treated me differently from then - even though the report I was making wasn’t about her or even someone on her team. It feeds a bigger problem then that people will become reluctant to raise concerns

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If anything happens at work now I'm going to be honest I keep my head down and look for another job. Healthcare can be so toxic , you so want to advocate fully for your patients but you could end up losing your livelihood if a team doesn't like you.

IdeletedbutI'mbackagain said:

Exactly, people are fit to lynch him after this. I don't think he is lying. I don't think ANY of these Dr's, nurses, specialists or parents have been lying or "misremembering".
They are damning themselves by being as honest as they are right now.
Where is this unadulterated rage towards Letby, the person who is actually on trial? I'm so confused by people's take on this, I really am at a loss.

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Because so far- whether we like it or not, two weeks in to a 6 month trial we’ve not seen any firm evidence she did it. She’s not admitted to anything. Whereas this doctor has? The firm evidence against her will come later presumably, and then so will all the anger and rage towards her.

But opposite to that, what has happened today is someone has admitted to being incompetent? And failing to do their job properly? So yes, actually I will be angry at him. And I’ll be angry about the accused when/if she’s found guilty.

I’ve not read it yet

EllsBellsWells said:

Because so far- whether we like it or not, two weeks in to a 6 month trial we’ve not seen any firm evidence she did it. She’s not admitted to anything. Whereas this doctor has? The firm evidence against her will come later presumably, and then so will all the anger and rage towards her.

But opposite to that, what has happened today is someone has admitted to being incompetent? And failing to do their job properly? So yes, actually I will be angry at him. And I’ll be angry about the accused when/if she’s found guilty.

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She literally wrote a note saying ‘I killed them on purpose because i am not good enough to care for them’ ‘I am evil I did this’. That’s far more damning than a doctor saying he should have done more when he had suspicions.

Lucy was on shift for every single one of these 17 babies that collapsed, and 7 of them died. Do you not feel any anger that at best she was also incompetent and didn’t do enough for them?

There has been a fuck ton of anger and presumed guilt towards Lucy. Seriously? Saying he should have done more isn't saying she's now getting off scot-free. She's the one on the murder trial lets not forget.

Tofino said:

I don’t know when he’s saying he raised them but even if it was after child B or after child K, he’s saying he raised concerns but they were dismissed by bosses. I find that plausible because whether this was negligence or murder, it’s pretty obvious the bosses didn’t do enough until child Q.

I totally agree he should have taken it elsewhere if he was knocked back but just because he didn’t doesn’t make him a liar. If anything I think him admitting he didn’t do enough makes him more credible. I just don’t see what he has to gain by lying.

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Right he should have raised concerns before baby k at some point, given his thought process during the incident involving baby k. He seems concerned enough to go drop what he’s doing and go and check where she is in the room. He’s suspicious of her before anything with baby k and if he hasn’t raised his concerns by now that’s unforgivable.
if he has raised those concerns and been pushed back the baby k incident should have confirmed his suspicions. He should have pushed at this point, where’s the “look remember what I said about Letby” to the management?

Felt really sad for the parents having to hear this. To think it could have been preventable is the worst feeling I imagine. His testimony does feel truthful though because he's opened up the hospital (and himself) for negligence charges now from the parents.

But to me that does indicate there were suspicions about LL from others. For even her close friend, mentor, and uni buddy to think this was an 'oh no not again' moment feels like a lot of people thought these were unusual cases. And makes me question why LL herself didn't agree or comment on it in any of her messages or interviews.

The defence lawyer asks Nurse A to validate that LL was dedicated to her job and highly professional - which she did. She spent all her time at work, we know this. So why didn't she ever raise the alarm or make medical notes mentioning it or ask for bags/tests to be run or texted people discussing how odd it was. Especially since she was the only one present at all of them so had a good idea how much the collapses were increasing. To me, someone dedicated to their job will be concerned about a lot of collapses and try to get to the bottom of it, be meticulous in her work and focused on fixing problems - because what else was she doing? She texted about being bored so clearly had the time. It just doesn't fit the profile of a workaholic, dedicated, highly qualified professional to be so meh about something everyone else was concerned about.

Of course it doesn't mean she's guilty, but i find it odd the defence are focused on this because her behaviour does not come across professional or dedicated at all so far.

So it has taken police years to accumulate evidence to hopefully be sufficient to gain a conviction for multiple murder charges - yet this doctor is at fault for not piecing together that he was working with a multiple murder after 2x deaths?

So he was expected to automatically jump to the conclusion that LL was murdering babies - surely the most unlikely, improbable cause of 2x deaths in hospital? Really??

I can understand that posters are shocked and angry but I think some need to stop, think what they are saying, and give their heads a wobble
How would you like to be in his position?
As the saying goes hindsight is a wonderful thing.

I think anyone who thinks the Doctor is a victim here, deserving of any real sympathy would sharp change their tune if that were their baby. Last I'll say on it.

slingo16 said:

Right he should have raised concerns before baby k at some point, given his thought process during the incident involving baby k. He seems concerned enough to go drop what he’s doing and go and check where she is in the room. He’s suspicious of her before anything with baby k and if he hasn’t raised his concerns by now that’s unforgivable.
if he has raised those concerns and been pushed back the baby k incident should have confirmed his suspicions. He should have pushed at this point, where’s the “look remember what I said about Letby” to the management?

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Well yes I agree with you, but I’m not sure why him not doing enough means he’s lying? It’s clear as day people at the hospital didn’t do enough. His testimony just supports that - he was one of the hospital staff that didn’t do enough whether it was murder or some other reason those babies were failed.

Re: Dr Jayaram. It hasn't said what channels he went through to raise his suspicions though and he is still only giving evidence on baby A and B at the moment which are the first suspected cases. We have no idea how many times he had raised concerns at that stage or since then as it hasnt been reported on. It's a huge jump to blame him when we have no idea at this stage what he did or didn't do. Hopefully that will be revealed as we go further into the evidence during the trial.

You also need evidence and in fairness, if it took the police a few years and 3 arrests to get this past CPS threshold then I would say they've really had to fight to find the evidence to back up the allegations. Therefore, how much power did he really have to take it further if senior managers shot it down?

As a side note, I wonder why a nurse witness wouldn't be named for legal reasons? I get someone being a minor, or the anonymity for fsmily and the babies involved, but its quite unusual for an adult witness to not be named

Tofino said:

Well yes I agree with you, but I’m not sure why him not doing enough means he’s lying? It’s clear as day people at the hospital didn’t do enough. His testimony just supports that - he was one of the hospital staff that didn’t do enough whether it was murder or some other reason those babies were failed.

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I’ve not seen anyone saying he’s lying? But I may have missed that.

What I am seeing is a lot of people defending someone who’s been professionally negligent and failed to do their job- and those same people somehow asking everyone to be angry at the accused (who’s yet to be found guilty) but not to be angry at someone who’s admitted wrongdoing?

Imagine being told to be angry at her but simultaneously not be angry at him? You can be angry at both of them!!! Why shouldn’t people be angry at him? He admitted to not doing his job properly!

jackolantern said:

We've talked about this before but I still stand by if I genuinely believed a nurse was harming babies I'd do anything to try and stop it, barricade the room, shout in the halls till someone listened if needs be. Just saying it's a difficult culture or what can you do isn't good enough. Yes it may be hard, bloody awful infact but this is the lives of babies on the line here?

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I mean, surely you’d put in a police report just to cover your own arse at least?? This case is truly harrowing tbh.

slingo16 said:

what also doesn’t add up is that on one hand if she’s guilty she’s been so careful. Murdering people in plain site it must take a certain amount of skill and brain capacity to avoid being caught in the act in this setting especially over the time period, she’s also got nothing serious linking her in terms of her phone or internet history by the looks of it, it strikes me as odd she’d go through all this trouble to hide it, but be stupid enough to skew the death rate so drastically that there’s no way it wouldn’t have sparked an investigation

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If she is a serial killer of babies (if) then serial killers tend to go into berzerker mode that eventually gets them caught the longer their streak goes on, because they get diminishing returns on their high. Only a few notable serial killers have been able to turn it off and on again, like the Green River Killer who went inactive for decades before starting again.

More often then not though, they tend to reduce the turnaround time on victims.

Tofino said:

Well yes I agree with you, but I’m not sure why him not doing enough means he’s lying? It’s clear as day people at the hospital didn’t do enough. His testimony just supports that - he was one of the hospital staff that didn’t do enough whether it was murder or some other reason those babies were failed.

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I think he’s stretched the truth to appear somewhat noble and I don’t like that.