Lucy Letby Case #7

[avabella]

It wasn’t just ‘on shift’. She was on her own with them just minutes before they unexpectedly collapsed. Was the police officer on his own with those four people just before they died? If not I don’t think they are comparable.

The unit was what, 21% staff down? So everyone run ragged.

What band was Lucy / was she the most senior on shift and therefore would be required to attend to the very poorly babies?
What other nurses were with what other children when they crashed/died - it's again, not definitive proof.

 

[pommobear]

I sound like a broken record I know, but people seriously need to remember that a verdict of "not guilty" MUST be delivered if the evidence does not clearly show beyond a reasonable doubt that the crime was committed by the defendant. Plenty of jurors who have delivered a not guilty verdict won't have been 100% sure that the defendant didn't do it, but you can't find someone guilty on that basis, it has to be not guilty. We all might have our own gut instincts and feelings but that's not what you base a verdict on.

I feel like many people have in this case made up their mind she was guilty before the trial even started and are now discounting any viewpoints which cast credible and reasonable doubt on that.

For me I don't see how you could possibly be convinced one way or the other at this point because we have heard almost none of the evidence.

 

[Tofino]

No but my point is, coincidence does happen. Very often, life has a funny way sometimes. She also can’t be presumed guilty because people don’t believe in it. I most certainly do, as do a lot of people I have spoken to about things

What number does it stop being a coincidence? We have 22 allegations here, the majority of which we are expecting to show she was on her own with them minutes before they unexpectedly collapsed. (Appreciate we’ve not heard all the evidence yet but that is what prosecution are suggesting).

Would 30 ‘coincidences’ sway you? 50? 100? At some point coincidence stops being a reasonable explanation. Plus that’s not the only evidence being relied on.

 

[LittleMy]

It’s scary to think this is only the second week of the trial. I can’t imagine what sort of things are going to be brought up by the end of it. I think we’ll all be dizzy.

 

[freaknasty]

I sound like a broken record I know, but people seriously need to remember that a verdict of "not guilty" MUST be delivered if the evidence does not clearly show beyond a reasonable doubt that the crime was committed by the defendant. Plenty of jurors who have delivered a not guilty verdict won't have been 100% sure that the defendant didn't do it, but you can't find someone guilty on that basis, it has to be not guilty. We all might have our own gut instincts and feelings but that's not what you base a verdict on.

I feel like many people have in this case made up their mind she was guilty before the trial even started and are now discounting any viewpoints which cast credible and reasonable doubt on that.

For me I don't see how you could possibly be convinced one way or the other at this point because we have heard almost none of the evidence.

Just yesterday in America a father was found not guilty of assisting a murderer after his son killed a girl (the son was found guilty, they were both on trial at the same time). To outsiders it's obvious he did it, but there wasn't enough evidence there to convict.

 

[gmf21]

Really? WOW..it’s just not done. When you become a health professional, you take oaths..you behave appropriately so what in gods earth would a nurse be stalking the parents of dead babies..screenshots of sympathy cards that the murderess sent to those grieving parents. They are a trophy..the FB searched gave her a thrill. Disgusting

Registered Nurses don’t actually take any oaths. You’re bound by the NMC Code of Conduct and the terms of your employment contract - NHS contracts may become more detailed after this case I think, for example expressly forbidding searches of patients on SM.

I just want to say something regarding the comments about her not having much else in her life, only a few friends etc. (not that the evidence has shown much about that yet) - it’s very hard to have a life outside work when you work long shifts in an intense job.

Your “weekend” can be Tuesday night for example so nobody with a “normal” job wants to do much and your work friends are probably working!

HCPs and emergency services workers do tend to stick together when it comes to relationships, I know one doctor who is married to an NHS admin and one who is married to a teacher but all the other doctors I know socially are with HCPs or 999 workers.

For nurses it can be very hard to stay in touch with other friend groups, particularly for people on FT contracts and shift rotation. Add in constant requests to work extra to cover and the need to do bank if you want to buy a house or car or have holidays and it can be all consuming and make you a bit weird.

Ive worked in places where staff were incredibly enmeshed in each other’s lives - bridesmaids, godparents etc. It can be hard to relate to your mate moaning about Melanie in Accounts being annoying when your work involves life and death.

 

[starshine89]

baby A and B both sound like they were born in quite poor condition and not very well at all, which to me is contrary to the previous reports?

 

[OH.FFS]

What the actual duck

My friend (edited: wrote husband by mistake lol) said the exact same words. I’m flitting between unsure and guilty. But I do have doubts so were I on the jury and so far, not much in, I’d still have to be not guilty.

 

[Lucyxxxx]

What number does it stop being a coincidence? We have 22 allegations here, the majority of which we are expecting to show she was on her own with them minutes before they unexpectedly collapsed. (Appreciate we’ve not heard all the evidence yet but that is what prosecution are suggesting).

Would 30 ‘coincidences’ sway you? 50? 100? At some point coincidence stops being a reasonable explanation. Plus that’s not the only evidence being relied on.

See I read your points and I get why you think how you do honestly but it feels to me like they've piled as many charges on her as possible in the hope the jury feel if there's this many charges and allegations she must of done it.

 

[pommobear]

Just yesterday in America a father was found not guilty of assisting a murderer after his son killed a girl (the son was found guilty, they were both on trial at the same time). To outsiders it's obvious he did it, but there wasn't enough evidence there to convict.

Then the right thing is not to convict. Better 100 guilty men go free than one innocent man is wrongfully imprisoned.

 

[Former_Antelopee]

Just having a think about the whole denying the Facebook searches.
Does it mean that she’s agreed she had searched them since these are the agreed facts??
Gone back on her police interview? If so I don’t find that suspicious as I’m sure a police interview would scare you especially with what she’s being accused with. Later when she’s seen the evidence or just not being under interview pressure she could’ve remembered?

 

[freaknasty]

Then the right thing is not to convict. Better 100 guilty men go free than one innocent man is wrongfully imprisoned.

Yes, I was agreeing with you! Although I do personally also believe he was guilty (as I do Lucy)

 

[avabella]

baby A and B both sound like they were born in quite poor condition and not very well at all, which to me is contrary to the previous reports?

I'm reading todays evidence feeling like I'm reading the defence. All I'm hearing is (sadly) details about very poorly babies who have unfortunately deteriorated. The quote today from the Dr was 'she didn't know what baby to attend to first' - nothing about that says that they were stable and healthy and unexpected to have complications.

 

[Deeznutslol]

Then the right thing is not to convict. Better 100 guilty men go free than one innocent man is wrongfully imprisoned.

I’m keeping an open mind but if it carries on like this then I do think she is going to be found not guilty tbh. Even if she does go down for some of them, I think she would appeal it and get off.

 

[CELESTE CROCKETT]

I


Im not suggesting the BA case was more 'clear cut' as it were.
Im just saying that the jurors have to be certain the defendant is guilty based on the evidence presented to them.

Remarkable similarities
However BA was more about her need to be seen to savings babies. She would injure them them walk away and then 'find' them collapsed and 'rescue' them. Except many didn't survive

 

[freaknasty]

Im interested in seeing what her texts sound like after all of the children die under her watch, if she's still denying anything is suspicious etc.

 

[IdeletedbutI'mbackagain]

Because it's embarrassing. Makes you look like a weirdo. Likelihood is she was being nosy. Ethically very dodgy but doesn't equate to murder.

Would you care about being embarrassed if you were being accused of murder though? I appreciate people think if she lied it's innocent but I personally don't.

 

[pommobear]

I’m keeping an open mind but if it carries on like this then I do think she is going to be found not guilty tbh. Even if she does go down for some of them, I think she would appeal it and get off.

I can't really comment yet because of all the evidence yet to be see but at the moment, on the basis of what I've heard so far, if I was on that jury I would have to say not guilty, regardless of my own gut instinct on the matter.

 

[viggle]

And also I still Facebook people from years ago to check they are doing okay! Some people leave an impression…. I don’t know why that’s deemed as weird or strange. even if I am I’m absolutely not a murderer!

I do this too, sometimes people will pop into my head and I’ll look them up, have a nosy little lurk and then close it.
No wrongdoing at all but as another poster said, it’s unsettling how it can be twisted!

 

[Lucyxxxx]

I'm reading todays evidence feeling like I'm reading the defence. All I'm hearing is (sadly) details about very poorly babies who have unfortunately deteriorated. The quote today from the Dr was 'she didn't know what baby to attend to first' - nothing about that says that they were stable and healthy and unexpected to have complications.

Add that to the unit being under staffed so chances to miss things. Doesn't quiet paint a picture of healthy babies just suddenly collapsing does it?