Lucy Letby Case #7

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This is why it's so troubling they need hard forensic medical evidence. The case at the minute throws up so much doubt. If you knew it would be a shorter sentence maybe but she's going to go away for life. I couldn't say she was definitely guilty and send her to prison for the rest of her days based on the prosecutions current case.
This was the point i was trying to make in my OP. If there was overwhelming evidence that she had done this - then the likelyhood is she would have pleaded at the earliest opportunity.
The fact that they are running a trial, leaves it down to a jury to decide on the outcome based on the evidence put before them - whatever that might be.
 
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But why deny if there was a reasonable explanation? Like "I look all the parents up because I worry about them afterwards and want to make sure they are okay". Just seems more straightforward than lying to the police to me.
I hear you on this, I think it’s possible she panicked and shut down under questioning. My brain goes dead when I’m randomly asked a curve ball question in a meeting because of anxiety, so I can only imagine the terror you’d feel in a police interview being interrogated about killing babies and might not respond normally, even if you’re innocent. Just playing devils advocate, she could well be lying to the police, but humans are complex and act weird - so I do try and see the shades of grey.
 
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It could still be human error no? Someone going to get a different medication but accidentally picking up and giving insulin instead of what they were meant to get?
The baby wasn’t recovering even after 5 doses of dextrose. The problems continued throughout the day so the experts are saying it must have been in a TPN bag meaning it was the intentional because insulin never goes in a TPN bag. (So baby was continuously receiving insulin - a single overdose should have recovered quickly following treatment, is my understanding).
 
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Really? WOW..it’s just not done. When you become a health professional, you take oaths..you behave appropriately so what in gods earth would a nurse be stalking the parents of dead babies..screenshots of sympathy cards that the murderess sent to those grieving parents. They are a trophy..the FB searched gave her a thrill. Disgusting
As a health professional, I've never taken an oath not to look people up on Facebook. Nor is it mentioned in any trust policy.
I've looked for patients' family after a death, I've also went looking for people I've met in passing, people I knew from school, a friends ex's family... I've certainly never murdered those people.
Not saying she's innocent but that's just not good enough evidence for me.
 
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I agree that lots of these messages and answers to questions can be open to interpretation both towards innocent and guilty as we just don't have the context. Would the jurors be given more context and we're not hearing it simply because there's too much to report?
 
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I don’t know, that’s why I said it would be useful to know the full transcript.
It really would, it makes me feel like this whole thread is kind of pointless. We don't know enough to defend OR condem her. Maybe we shouldn't I suppose, I get that the jury is far more important than the public in this case but I really wish there was some high quality objective journalism coverage at the very least.
 
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This was the point i was trying to make in my OP. If there was overwhelming evidence that she had done this - then the likelyhood is she would have pleaded at the earliest opportunity.
The fact that they are running a trial, leaves it down to a jury to decide on the outcome based on the evidence put before them - whatever that might be.
Not really, Emma Tustin and Thomas Hughes had CCTV in their house, it was so easy to prove the only way Arthur died was at the hands of Emma. She still pleaded not guilty. Murderers have nothing to lose by pleading not guilty. They get a life sentence regardless.

ETA: nevermind the fact that some murderers would just get off from having to put the victims family through a trial and relive their crimes.
 
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As a health professional, I've never taken an oath not to look people up on Facebook. Nor is it mentioned in any trust policy.
I've looked for patients' family after a death, I've also went looking for people I've met in passing, people I knew from school, a friends ex's family... I've certainly never murdered those people.
Not saying she's innocent but that's just not good enough evidence for me.
Actually you are breaching confidentiality which is in policy and procedures and if you are a registered professional it’s goes against those codes as well. With LL specifically it goes against the nmc code
 
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I agree that lots of these messages and answers to questions can be open to interpretation both towards innocent and guilty as we just don't have the context. Would the jurors be given more context and we're not hearing it simply because there's too much to report?
They will definitely get more context and alongside images of the paperwork. We get a couple of sentences every ten minutes, they will get far more than that. It’s frustrating. Yesterday showed very clearly how the media cherry pick stuff.
 
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Not really, Emma Tustin and Thomas Hughes had CCTV in their house, it was so easy to prove the only way Arthur died was at the hands of Emma. She still pleaded not guilty. Murderers have nothing to lose by pleading not guilty. They get a life sentence regardless.

ETA: nevermind the fact that some murderers would just get off from having to put the victims family through a trial and relive their crimes.
Was it Ted Bundy who repped himself in court and cross examined his victims?
 
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It seemed she was on shift a lot of the time, I also know a police officer who attended 4 suicides in one night. Does that make him a murderer? Or is that coincidence? Looks like they are trying to point the blame at someone right now, they have got bugger all evidence. If the post mortems couldn’t give a reason as to why they died, how are they sure they died because of air being injected and/or being given insulin. Because it can’t be proven?….. that’s an easy get out isn’t it. This feels different to any other murder trial, it really does. Right now I don’t see any proof of her being rough with the babies, or people raising concerns before they decided to arrest her, they took so long getting to trial because they have extended the time to try and gather evidence clearly, failing so far!!!
 
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Actually you are breaching confidentiality which is in policy and procedures and if you are a registered professional it’s goes against those codes as well. With LL specifically it goes against the nmc code
In what way is it breaching confidentiality? Nobody else in the world knows who I'm searching or that they're a patient.
 
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In what way is it breaching confidentiality? Nobody else in the world knows who I'm searching or that they're a patient.
And your just looking at what the person has publicly put on social media. It’s up to them what’s on there and what they share publicly. about themselves. It’s not like your looking up private info
 
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Not wanting to state the obvious but the crux of this trial is whether these babies were intentionally murdered or harmed.
How will that be determined? Expert medical evidence? PMs? Staff and parent witnesses? The accused having opportunity?
Everything else will be circumstantial, though not necessarily unimportant. So, in some ways, constantly debating over this isn’t really useful in determining the crux of the matter.
Which we haven’t really got to yet.
I’m trying to separate the wood from the trees.
 
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And your just looking at what the person has publicly put on social media. It’s up to them what’s on there and what they share publicly. about themselves. It’s not like your looking up private info
Absolutely. I would NEVER go into a patient's private medical notes if I wasn't directly caring for them. What someone chooses to publicly post online is different. Employers do it all the time to potential/current employees. My trust policy actually states that they can search for and use my public social media activity in a disciplinary proceeding.
 
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It seemed she was on shift a lot of the time, I also know a police officer who attended 4 suicides in one night. Does that make him a murderer? Or is that coincidence? Looks like they are trying to point the blame at someone right now, they have got bugger all evidence. If the post mortems couldn’t give a reason as to why they died, how are they sure they died because of air being injected and/or being given insulin. Because it can’t be proven?….. that’s an easy get out isn’t it. This feels different to any other murder trial, it really does. Right now I don’t see any proof of her being rough with the babies, or people raising concerns before they decided to arrest her, they took so long getting to trial because they have extended the time to try and gather evidence clearly, failing so far!!!
After seeing the text from the colleague saying things were odd about that night, I do wonder if people started gossiping and it got worse the more deaths that occurred.

I’ve worked in a medical setting and have seen how judgemental and witchy medical professionals can be. If quality of care starts being questioned, I can definitely see people starting to point fingers at others, subconsciously or not. It doesn’t mean people were being deliberately malicious, but it is human nature to deflect blame and could be the case here. Who knows?!
 
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