Lucy Letby Case #67

[MmmB777]

I'm afraid I disagree with some of the below. It was establishe throughout the investigation and court case that she is highly intelligent. Even the judge said so when sentencing her. So I really don't think that is a trait we can put into doubt. What I think her achilles tendon was that she is incredibly narcissistic and think she is better than everyone else, therefore they wouldn't catch her. She got away with it for years (way before Child A) and got cocky, so she was unprepared for what was to come. If she had truly realised they were onto her she would have disposed of or hidden a lot of the paperwork she had. She just wasnt expecting them.

And I’d disagree again sorry! It’s not an unusual feature for people to keep things related to their crime in order to relive everything. It would have been impossible for her to dispose of them because it’s utterly precious to her. A blue towel with a baby’s resus on! There’s not a chance she didn’t know the implication of having kept that under her bed for years. It’s utterly precious to her and there’s no way she could bin it.

She will have been resigned to the fact that she isn’t a normal human and at some point she would be stopped and her fun would end. She even acquired more notes and more handovers after her first arrest, that’s how important it was to her.
Hey I better get rid of this note that says I’m evil because I’ve been around 16 baby deaths over this year… nope Letby tucked it into the 2016 diary. Precious.

I’ve given this example a few times so sorry for everyone that’s heard it before.
There was a man in prison for a long time for multiple rapes and murders, the whole time he was convicted and serving time as the only perpetrator. Eventually he disclosed to the prison psychologist that he offended with another person and that the other man was actually the ring leader. They would listen to a certain album on tape in the car every time they went out looking for a victim. This other man had been free for years and years. He had gotten away with it. Until his friend’s confession. When police finally had enough on him to search his home, under his floorboards was the cassette tape that the pair of them had listened to, he clearly could not be parted with it.
it’s about an attachment to the crimes and a special secret that gives them excitement and thrill. Some can’t let go of the victims bodies, some keep underwear, some keep a big diary full of notes on what they did. Some revisit the crime scene often (Letby got that pleasure every time she worked). Some join the search, go to the vigil. She did not get normal excitement, emotions or thrills from life, sex, relationships.

By the time she killed the triplets, she was utterly out of control. She could have easily killed Q the very next day. How many consecutive days could her designated babies die for? I don’t believe that’s stupidity or all down to arrogance but just an utter compulsion to kill and hurt and once she’d finally got multiples she was on a total high. She will have known for a long time that she wouldn’t be normal or live normally. She didn’t mind the arrest too much and she enjoyed the trial. None of it matters at all to her in the way that we would think or feel about it.

 

[Futtrit]

https://www.archive.is/oldest/https...hospital-she-worked-at-and-where-are-they-now

Stephen Cross...he was director of legal services and corporate affairs.... is a director of Chester Masons.

Surprise surprise.

 

[Tofino]

De ja vu


Once, he was found with an unusual amount of blood in his nappy when Letby was looking after him. The doctors could find no real cause.

Another time, when the killer was his designated nurse, he suddenly collapsed inexplicably as she was about to hand him over to night staff. Fortunately, a doctor came to his aid and a senior nurse took over and he quickly recovered.
---
The boy's father told the Mail: 'We had a handmade card and we assumed everyone on the ward got one. But they didn't, it was just us.

 

[Aberscot]

I see a lot of discussion around the diaries and handover notes and I just wanted to put a bit of information out there. Nurses have to revalidate every 3 years, which means they have to prove worked hours and further study. Another element of revalidation is that we have to write a minimum of 5 reflections. These reflections are about incidents in the ward environment that could have been handled better, learning opportunities that arose from those incidents, and how we could have improved our own performance in those moments. So a lot of nurses do keep diaries at home without identifying factors for the purpose of writing those required reflections when the time comes for revalidation. Secondly, the term handover notes; in some hospital wards, there are pre-printed blank handover sheets that you take and fill out during handover with relevant information. Most nurses fold these up and put them in their pockets for quick reference during a shift, or add to them in order to remember information to hand over to the next team. I bet if I went into my car now, there's one or two from months/years past under the seats. I know for a fact as I sit here typing this, yesterdays is currently sitting on my bed, where I emptied the pockets this morning to wash my uniforms for my next set of shifts. Again, it's not that unusual to find nurses (especially un-tidy ones) hoarding handover notes, especially if they want to transfer information into their reflective diary for revalidation. Now sheets of written notes taken directly from patient notes are an *entirely* different ballgame.

No disrespect maybe you should go to the wiki On here and read about the handover sheets, it was’nt the odd one she forgot about it was 256 of them, that she took home, some in boxes marked keep. Lots of these related to the babies that she brutally murdered or tried to harm.
If it was accidental or untidy she would have destroyed them in her shredder that she had but no she wanted to keep them all for a reason and that was that they were sick trophies for her.
Maybe if I was you I would have a look round and get rid of any that you process as if I was your patient I wouldn’t want my details lying about your bedroom

 

[milkman]

What can be normal behavior for most of us can be sinister behavior to a serial killer even if it’s exactly the same behaviour.

Many of us facebook stalk people we know or have met. Facebook stalking the parents of the babies you’ve murdered or attempted to murder is sinister and sick as fuck. Struggle to understand why some people can’t see the difference in other situations too.

THIS! People trying to justify her searches on fb as if its the same as having a glance at an ex partners social media

 

[daisynoon]

https://www.archive.is/oldest/https...rt-Mails-LIZ-HULL-case-horrified-Britain.html

An interesting read from Liz Hull and her journey in court.

Wow, I feel chilled every time I read about Letby's demeanour in court.

Interested that she also discusses Letby's parents' treatment of the media:

 

[Wackie Jeaver]

Oh my god well spotted. This is just gonna be catastrophic. Imagine all the parents now who’s children spent time in the NICU whilst she was there, just sat waiting wondering if they’re gonna get a knock off the police.

I think I've mentioned before on these threads - my mum was at the mortuary in Tunbridge Wells when David Fuller was active. After his trial, there was a 'call police' line - they came back to me and said no evidence she had been interfered with. Thankgod. But the fear of that never ever goes away, and she was actually a very old lady who died, not a tiny baby who should have lived or at the very least not been the plaything of a psycho.

 

[stardust21]

She’ll never hear the birds sing without a chorus of background noise
She’ll never feel her feet in the sand or the sea
She’ll never see a rainbow or walk through a forest
She’ll never have a holiday or look forward to an event with friends and family
She’ll never choose and cook a delicious meal to relax with a spouse while cuddling watching a movie
She’ll never have her own family
She’ll never have a bubble bath with candles
She’ll never choose her own music and sing to her hearts content
She’ll never bake a cake and sit and decorate it just because
She’ll never have a picnic in the sun with her friends and a good book

I could go on forever. But the most important thing is -

She’ll not live a day of her life without serious mental anguish and suffering knowing all this. That’s a far better punishment than death ever could be.

Quite.

I have never given it much thought before this week, but really, I think that a death sentence over a whole life imprisonment order is actually the soft option.

I can see why everyone put on one is instantly put on suicide watch.

I’ve seen people in prisons saying that people who WLO can’t even really make friends with other in mates because of the difference that no option for release makes.

I think it’s a very cruel punishment, that is totally fitting on the likes of LL and Wayne Cousins.

 

[raspberryjuice]

Bet it spent half its time in the hospital snivelling and grassing on everyone the rancid little weasel

I bet she reported every tiny thing so her colleagues would have reports about them making them look back but she would be clean as a whistle and look amazing to cover her tracks. Cunt++++++

 

[Skyeball]

She took the respiratory tubes away for a picture?! What the actual fuck?
You don't do that, no one does that.
The only photo I have of our families baby without tubes is when they'd already gone.
It's for comfort. Even a minute or two would be uncomfortable they said.
I hope that little one wasn't uncomfortable during that picture because he was just doing better than ours at that stage.
I hope all babies are doing better than that all the time, ever
That article was a tough read I'm not gonna lie.
I don't know why I keep looking. Well, I do, because I feel like I need to see patterns, signs, understand why in case I need to intercept one of these freaks in future.
Even if no one I love ever has a prem baby again, someone's going to get old or poorly at some point.
Am I weird? Maybe so. Trauma changes you.

 

[SkiesOfBlue]

Hello dears. So I attended a Zoom presentation earlier about Lucy Letby with a chap who was a senior detective with Scotland Yard. He was involved in the Levi Bellfield cases so that piqued my interest. He also claims to be a criminal psychologist but he definitely isn't a psychologist having sat through the talk. Nonetheless some parts of it were interesting (although very few knew as much as this lovely crew

• He made the point that, in his police career, sometimes a clear reason for heinous crime is never really established
• Possible motives: Infatuation (Don't think he knew that the registrar only came into the picture later), a God complex, she loved the grief and despair of the parents and really got a kick out of that, she made numerous statements in texts that she found Nursery 3 & 4 'boring' so it could have been the desire for thrills/wanted excitement of sick babies. Believed a central tenet is not feeling good enough/inadequate and that she wanted to be at the centre of everything/saving lives
• Recommends the book 'The Serial Killer Next Door' and that while trauma or looking for clues in the past is common it can be misleading to do that sometimes. Often there are triggers but not always.
• Men tend to favour more violent crimes....women tend to favour poisoning (insulin) and other subtle means

Important points from a police perspective and how she got away with it for so long:

• She had daily access to her chosen type of victim - easy access
• She was in 100% control of these little people. She was literally in charge of their lives
• The victims/patients were vulnerable and would never be able to fight back/tell

He gave a list of common red flags with healthcare workers who commit murder, some of which apply to Lucifer, others do not:

• Often move from one hospital to another
• Secret/difficult personal relationships
• History mental illness/depression
• Predict when a patient may die
• Makes odd comments
• Claims to be jinxed
• Odd behaviours when a patient dies
• Likes to talk about the death that has occurred
• A pattern of deaths on shifts (and he made the point that this is going to be challenging in the future too because people are now keenly aware of their 'rights' so even bringing this up can be difficult.....not defending her shite management btw)
• Prefers night shifts - fewer potential witnesses)
• Makes people anxious/suspicious
• In possession of books on serial murder (just as well I don't work in healthcare)
• May have substance abuse issue/personality disorder

4 types of serial killers:

• Visionary - usually due to mental illness and have visions/compulsion to kill
• Missionary - on a mission to go and kill
• Hedonistic - because they love it, i.e. Ted Bundy
• Power & Control - this guy was in charge of the child protection team in central London and he said most paedophiles and killers of vulnerable people fall into this category, i.e. Shipman, Jack the Ripper, Fred & Rose West, Levi Bellfield and Lucifer

In conclusion, this copper is absolutely convinced she scores quite highly on the psychopathy scale for the following reasons:

• Lacking guilt
• Incapacity to love
• Shallow emotion
• Egocentric
• Need for stimulation (boredome)
• Superficial charm

I find this interesting as she is not a classic psychopath but I've never met one in a criminal capacity.

What did really pique my interest is the fact that he kept saying what a happy childhood she had. And it was only after I logged off I thought, did she? I mean do we really know that for sure? And I know he was keen to point out that childhood isn't always an indicator and asserted that Shipman and Bundy had happy childhoods (this simply is not true; the former was abused, believed his mother was his sister and beaten senseless by his grandfather, the latter was controlled mercilessly by an over indulgent but cruel mother) but do any of us really know what her childhood was like? She was an only child, there are no witnesses and my psyche spidey senses tell me that there are a lot of residual unhealthy, codependent behaviours that may point to something odd).

Anyway! The DCI finished with a print out of Judge Goss' sentencing remarks and he highlighted a number of really important clues presented in evidence that point towards why Lucifer is in fact a psychopath, I shall attach to this post.

Aaaaaaand DISCUSS

 

[IGiveUp22]

Ya know the other bit of the scapegoat theory that makes 0 sense (not that any of it does but ya know) she was THE ONLY NURSE present at ALL these incidents/deaths and she didn’t raise one concern to anyone higher - nada. You can’t think she was being used as a scapegoat for a failing hospital when she didn’t even raise any concerns about said failings herself?? Especially when the only concerns that were being raised WERE ABOUT HER… make it make sense

Like it’s come out now it’s in black and white that the higher management covered up consultants concerns about her…how can you stick with a scapegoat theory

 

[MmmB777]

Mail have released another podcast! With Dr Gibbs. Such a soft spot for him after the story on here
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Sharing again because it warms my heart.. hope OP doesn’t mind me doing so


Im new to this thread. Just read the last page. Im gona comment cold. With no preconceptions or opinions. Ill read though later…so

I had a premature baby at the countess of chester hospital. A few years before the baby deaths in scbu. At 29 weeks He stayed in for nearly 5 weeks and I barely left babies side.

I know the layouts the protocols and one paediatrician in particular. Dr Gibbs. Still there I believe.
We usually chat about what he's passionate about.
His work…so
We spoke babies…

dr Gibbs is like an incabod crane character from sleepy hollow.
Tall and huge hands.
Not the first time Id had dealings with him as hes treated all my kids for one thing or another.

He does his rounds on all the prem babies. He’d pick them up and look at them all over twisting his wrist so he never missed a spot. We look
In amazement. I chuckled and said “ you must be like crane to them. We laughed.

We chatted more and he talked of a time when the generators failed at the hospital and so did the back up.
There was no ventilation for the babies. Dr gibbs was the only one there, he manually ventilated 3 babies alone. He said, ‘so my hands and wing span came in handy that day! Rushing from cot to cot for a terrifying few minutes. He kept all three babies alive and they survived.
The attention and care my son had was remarkable. The details such as flat you can use with your family to relax and eat. The little knitted clothes to use and the memory boxes for your baby. The support and the chats the nurses would be so attentive. Make you drinks.
There is no way on this earth that those doctors and nurses on The countess of Chester neonatal ward, from my personal experience over a month we where there,was in the slightest bit negligent. Maybe too trusting in what happened. But never neglectful.

They layout is 3 rooms. As you come through the ward turn left, the emergency room 1 is to your right. If its was the same then. Theres a side room to your left where a very high dependant poorly baby would be. Then room 3 is ahead. Thats the last room before home and room 2 is next to room 3 but not in view. I can see how shes been able to hide whats shes doing if shes in the high dependant room and room 2. Its out of view. Then when a baby is really poorly a screen is used. Then again opportunity.
I saw alot, experienced a baby come from stoke to alderhay very poorly but died in Chester was treated with dignity and we all felt it because the air went quiet for the rest of the shift. So every baby death in there was felt by all. Respected by consultants nurses parents alike.
No…Id never for one minute suspect hospital neglect.
I know the nursing on the other wards is questionable but in high dependancy they have no choice to do their work or babies will die? .
All I saw where hard working professionals.

 

[SkiesOfBlue]

The podcast mentions didn’t want the female officer (Danielle Stonier) that did her police interview to be the one that read out her answers from the interviews to the court. She has some nerve - again that’s not someone that’s shy and meek, it’s a control freak that still thinks they’re superior despite being on trial for multiple baby murders.
Glad she didn’t get her own way. Hope it was torture for her

And she got her own way a lot during this trial which was unprecedented. It's still unbelievable that she was indulged in being seated in the witness box before anyone else entered the court room due to her startle response/PTSD. Perhaps they had to do this to be seen to give her the fairest trial possible but it seems like she tried to exert control at a number of junctures which is like most serial killers so I suppose I shouldn't be surprised

 

[Lynn’ssnazzycardigan]

She took photos of them a lot I think. Even when she hadn’t got consent, like from baby Es mum who she surprised with the memory box (she wrote explicitly in the notes that she’d got consent but hadn’t). Maybe also at that point avoiding convo with that mum as she may have brought up the bleeding at 9.
The only time she struggled to find the camera seems to have been when baby Bs incredibly strange fleeting rash (similar to As and many others) was there. She took so long it had gone by the time she was back. How unfortunate eh.

That just gave me a penny drop. I could’ve almost given her the benefit of the doubt about being slow to find the camera- our ward camera is only used for complex wound plans so there’s every chance it would be boxed away/not charged. But their camera would have been used all the time for the babies’ progress diaries they make for the parents. It would’ve been easy to fetch it in time. It’s striking to me how many of her actions could be explained away/seem plausible if you didn’t scratch the surface, or like me are unfamiliar with NICU. I think that’s one of the reasons we see so many people who can’t quite grasp how damning the evidence is when you actually know what you’re looking for- at.

 

[SnoopySnooper86]

I've just heard that she's checking herself into Rampton.

I thought it was invite only? Did Bev send her the code, you know like a tattle joining code.

 

[MmmB777]

If the police are attributing another 6 deaths in 2015/16 to her - I wonder if they were before baby A or after? I guess that document that showed the months / deaths might help figure if baby A was her first at COCH? though we wouldn’t know which were the non-suspicious deaths to rule them out - though we do know any deaths after end June 16 aren’t down to her.

soz got my hair in a bun and am serious kabuki tonight

I’m sure during baby A’s evidence, one of the replies to her texts about the death, included something about her “bad run” even at that point

 

[Treesy19]

You know, I keep thinking of the third triplet, when he grows up and is an adult how angry and shortchanged (if that’s the right word, robbed maybe) he may feel, that he’s meant to have two best friends who look like him with a unique bond. Two mates, how much fun they all would have hd growing up. And some evil bitch took them away. My heart goes out to him knowing that. And I cried when Baby G’s parents said they have not had any more children. Their lives revolving around their poor little girl who will remain in a chair all her life. And another surviving twin, the parents say they give him no boundaries because they absolutely can’t bear seeing him to be sad. That’s totally understandable.
I hope Letby has a rotten time for her decades in jail.

 

[Cack_Conroe]

I’m super sorry it this has been asked, but I double promise I have read the wiki:

Has there been any mention on what her criteria was for attacking Baby A-Q? Like, why them and not the other babies she cared for/had access to? I’m listening to the podcast «The Trial of Lucy Letby» from the mail+ - and I’m often thinking like… why them? Racially motivated? Poorer families? Or just random, we’ll never know?

All of her victim selection seems to be aimed at inflicting maximum trauma on the parents,

8/17 of the babies were twins or triplets. We speculate this is because the parents would stay in the hospital for the surviving baby, whereas parents of deceased singletons would go home immediately, so their grief couldn't be enjoyed. Then, she could attack the second twin, and enjoy the whole process twice.

Others were babies whose mothers had already suffered hardship and grief, and who would already be in a heightened state of worry even before anything happened. For example, 2/17 of the other babies had twins who died in utero (that's 10/17 twins altogether). Another mum who has come forward, believing her baby to be a third insulin poisoning victim not in the trial, had had 6 miscarriages before finally having a live baby. These mums were already worried about their babies dying, then Lucy gave them the tumult of it actually or nearly happening. The orchestration of this gruesome emotional rollercoaster is I suspect why she attacked the same babies multiple times.

Similarly, other babies had overcome adversity to survive, and the parents were already traumatized and Lucy could make their suffering even worse.

Other times, babies with existing medical vulnerabilities were selected as a convenient disguise for the medical problems she went on to inflict on them. For example, Baby N had haemophilia, and she appears to have tried to cause him a big bleed.

Finally, other babies were attacked on special dates, Baby D's dad was extremely anxious and she was murdered on Father's Day, and Baby G was attacked on her 100th day milestone, and again on her due date.

 

[MmmB777]

I definitely think there’s some truth to her targetting multiples as it meant she would be able to prey on the parents’ grief for longer. It takes a really cruel person to want to hurt one baby nevermind twins or triplets. She stole their joy from them (or tried to in some cases). She must’ve relished the parents’ agony

Yep and after listening to the parent statements, I think @OldBlondie was right about going after children she knew were especially longed for (IVF, rainbow babies).
I think multiples may give her more opportunity and there was definitely an opportunistic element. Twin parents have to split their attention, the mums are also more likely (I think all in the case?) to have had c section births and be immobile and spending less time on the ward themselves, husbands also spending time with them to support their care. She preyed on who was left alone and who had health conditions she could manipulate. Evil.