I agree. Also how can you inject air into a babies stomach, surely if that happened the baby would scream due to the sudden pain from it.I think I understand what you’re saying- that for each baby, you want to understand how, out of all the possibilities that could have lead to their death, did they decide on it being a deliberate act of harm?
Because in each instance, I doubt there is 100% conclusive proof it was deliberate harm or murder. And I bet that in each case individually, the (hospitally doctory) investigators first thinking would have been ‘ok, which, out of all the scenarios, is the one that best explains it?’ And that that might have been the most statistically common one, before anyone thought that was any harm being done. Which is what I imagine her defence will argue? That there is another, perfectly logical, perfectly plausible cause of death- even if it’s from the doctoring/nursing communities experiences (clinical experience would be a better term!!) or from world wide stats (babies often die of XYZ when ABC).
And even if you add in the fact that LL was the common denominator, the first port of call would be to hypothesise the most explainable reason. Which wouldn’t involve murder or deliberate harm.
But if you look at the cases through the lens of maybe there was foul play, you might start to take note of the other possibilities as to the reason for their deaths/crashes.
And if you are looking for harm done and you find an explanation for that that would be A reasonable explanation (reasonable as in ‘this is legitimately something that could have happened to explain that death/crash’) then despite the lesser statistical probability of it being the case- someone investigating it through that lens might say ‘hold up- THATS why this baby died/crashed.’
So I think I would like to know what the thing was that made the lens go from ‘she’s involved in all these incidents’ to ‘she’s the reason for all these incidents?’
I get that the fact there are explanations in all the cases put forward by the prosecution that there was foul play, and that that alone might be their biggest argument(she was there for all of them and in all of them A reason they died was foul play).
But the defence can say ‘oh, but these other reasons why they could have died are much more likely.’
So how are the prosecution going to prove it beyond reasonable doubt?
Nb. The insulin being no accident thing does somewhat throw a spanner in the works of my thinking- but the defence will argue why it can’t be 100% proved as definitively a deliberate act of harm by LL I guess.
She’s obviously got the means and opportunity, but what is the motive?
Also, I think I’ve confused myself.
I fully get why you want to understand why someone would do this but sadly some people are just like that. I think it’s harder for us to process because ‘she doesn’t look like the type’. Also because she’s a woman. But if we were presented the same case with a ‘dodgy’ looking old bloke, I don’t think there’d be half the discussion on what happened to them to make them do this.I’m keen to find a “trigger” too. I feel I just have to know what would make you want to do this if it wasn’t notoriety or attention. Surely to god it wasn’t just jealousy that perhaps “everyone” around her was pairing off and starting families. And she was fuming worried she’d never have that herself? She was only 25 but who knows. Did she ever have a boyfriend or girlfriend. So many questions I hope come to the surface.
Yeah me too. Unless by that do they perhaps allude to Merseyside Police, which perhaps her placement (short placement??) at the Liverpool hospital was at.This aswell got me wondering...
'investigation across the force area and beyond'
It is extremely easy for her to inject air into a babies stomach. you would change your methods if you started getting cocky and the thrill of the first method wears off, also switching it up would help cover your tracks (your comment proves that)I agree. Also how can you inject air into a babies stomach, surely if that happened the baby would scream due to the sudden pain from it.
to me it’s odd the prosecution are claiming so many different causes of death. You wouldn’t keep switching methods if you were a murderer and found one that worked without trace.
Hard to scream when you have a breathing tube stuck down your throat.I agree. Also how can you inject air into a babies stomach, surely if that happened the baby would scream due to the sudden pain from it.
to me it’s odd the prosecution are claiming so many different causes of death. You wouldn’t keep switching methods if you were a murderer and found one that worked without trace.
I disagree… if you’re a murderer in this situation and you don’t want to raise suspicions you would switch methods to try and make it look random or like someone else is involved and not you…I agree. Also how can you inject air into a babies stomach, surely if that happened the baby would scream due to the sudden pain from it.
to me it’s odd the prosecution are claiming so many different causes of death. You wouldn’t keep switching methods if you were a murderer and found one that worked without trace.
my new born had major surgery that takes an adult 10 weeks to recover from and because he was so heavily sedated with a ventilator he never cried the whole time he was in hospital.Hard to scream when you have a breathing tube stuck down your throat.
I would think babies with breathing tubes would be sedated too.
I don’t really get the debate over her ‘MO’ to me none of it is that different - essentially medically killing them through the equipment available to her. I think the most different MO is the poor baby with mild clotting disorder who had the injuriesIt is extremely easy for her to inject air into a babies stomach. you would change your methods if you started getting cocky and the trill of the first method wears off, also switching it up would help cover your tracks (your comment proves that)
If the baby was vented and sedated, they wouldn't scream.I agree. Also how can you inject air into a babies stomach, surely if that happened the baby would scream due to the sudden pain from it.
to me it’s odd the prosecution are claiming so many different causes of death. You wouldn’t keep switching methods if you were a murderer and found one that worked without trace.
Or, from a cod psychology point of view, and this is me speculating and certainly not saying that any of this means others in similar circumstances should be worried I’m applying it to all humans- could be she have had a depressed mother and seeing the babies get attention in that way caused her to resent the newborns? Or perhaps her dad was emotionally abusive to her mother and to see the dads looking after the babies was triggering? Or maybe she flew through school and university being a high achiever and she couldn’t bear to see the babies being so vulnerable as she rejected that part of herself and it disgusted her to the point where it was unbearable and she had to act? I imagine there was a reason she went into neonatal nursing (not nefarious) but perhaps therapy may have been a better option (if she is guilty).I definitely think either we’ll get evidence of historic suspicious behaviours or something that’s triggered her in some way, whether miscarriage, break up or other kind of trauma. Not trying to excuse her, I just think it’s the most likely thing to happen?
Oh thank you! I’m just imagining being asked in an interview to give an example of the above strengths and I say ‘here is a tattle wiki I produced, but please don’t look up what I said about Louise Thompson’Well, you can, but not directly I guess.
You’ve gone through different sources of text and been able to summarise and organise it, all in a tight turnaround time. The fact you’ve done this quick shows you can deliver under pressure and can’t have procrastinated much! I say that shows organisation, focus and ability to handle lots of data. If I knew your name I’d be on your Facebook and linkedin nosey-ingwhat you did in your real job
It might be better to add a link as images take up a lot of space compared to text and once you add them you can’t delete them.Thank you.
where can I learn how to edit.
I thought it might be good to store things like that note LL wrote which the prosecution claimed was a confession?
I agree and LL has been living with this for so long that she's likely to be immune to what we are hearing for the first time.I am also struggling with these claims about her looking "expressionless". It reminds me of the accusations levelled at women who are raped who shutdown emotionally, when in reality they are deeply traumatised and its framed as them seeming unbothered. Its simply too early to accurately interpret what her reactions mean.
If she is guilty, there may not be a single trigger but even in the most heinous crimes there is always a rationale, even if its warped.I fully get why you want to understand why someone would do this but sadly some people are just like that. I think it’s harder for us to process because ‘she doesn’t look like the type’. Also because she’s a woman. But if we were presented the same case with a ‘dodgy’ looking old bloke, I don’t think there’d be half the discussion on what happened to them to make them do this.
Maybe she’s just evil.
For context, there are now many hospitals within the UK who will deliver and treat babies born at 22 weeks (viability is classed at 24 weeks) there are many babies who survived being born at this gestation living amazing lives. Some with complications from prematurity, others with none.I think what’s opened my eyes the most is that babies dying isn’t as ‘common’ as I thought in the NICU/ SCBU- I honestly thought there’d be more deaths than what’s been mentioned. I’m obviously glad I was wrong to think it, I was clearly a bit naive to how much fight these little babies have in them
No, I think she was present every time, it’s probably the biggest part of their prosecution.Can someone clarify for me - as I am wondering if I have potentially missed a massive piece of the puzzle or if this hasn't come to light yet.
Were there other babies who sadly died in the neonatal unit when LL *wasn't* on shift, or was she present/on shift for every single baby that died there?
I spent 3 months in one, no babies died whilst I was there and I kept in touch with a lot of families and they all went home too. There was some very early babies born who went home on oxygen but they are still ok. I could not be more grateful for the care we received even more so now.I think what’s opened my eyes the most is that babies dying isn’t as ‘common’ as I thought in the NICU/ SCBU- I honestly thought there’d be more deaths than what’s been mentioned. I’m obviously glad I was wrong to think it, I was clearly a bit naive to how much fight these little babies have in them
So just to clarify, in the timeframe that the case is investigating, no other baby died in the neonatal unit, other than when Lucy was on shift?No, I think she was present every time, it’s probably the biggest part of their prosecution.
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