Where I worked, they were delivered at the start of the day and stored in the same room as the medication so tbf I can definitely see how she could’ve tampered with the bags, any member of staff could really as they were never locked up.
- Status
New to Tattle Life? Click "Order Thread by Most Liked Posts" button below to get an idea of what the site is about:
With the note do you think it’s says “they went I killed them on purpose cos I’m not good enough” so meaning someone said it to her??If Mark Dowling is going to be adding extra titbits in his articles that are not in his live reporting then he’s given me more work to do for the wiki
oh give over! Even the defence have said she wrote it in anguish about the allegations. Not her plants!
No it says ‘how will things ever be like they used to’ under neath that says ‘they can’t’ (replying to her self) Then it moves on to ‘I did this’ ‘i killed them on purpose’
Re: the grievance and the note.
I'm beginning to wonder if she raised a grievance around mismanagement/bullying/discrimination etc - and they came back at her with the murder accusations.
If she is innocent, and she raised complaints about how things were handled on the ward, best practice not being followed etc, or her being directed to do tasks outwit her allocated babies etc - you can imagine the sheer panic and terror when they 'retaliated' with those allegations. Just another viewpoint.
I'm beginning to wonder if she raised a grievance around mismanagement/bullying/discrimination etc - and they came back at her with the murder accusations.
If she is innocent, and she raised complaints about how things were handled on the ward, best practice not being followed etc, or her being directed to do tasks outwit her allocated babies etc - you can imagine the sheer panic and terror when they 'retaliated' with those allegations. Just another viewpoint.
I'm hearing this point LOUD and clear!!!!
Why would they accuse someone of that knowing if it went any further they would be in deep deep trouble.
Respectfully, no. I think everybody involved would have run quite a close eye over the note! There’s no ‘they think’ or ‘they said’ about her statements. I think her defence would have jumped all over it if there’s any chance those statements indicating guilt actually say “people are calling me evil”. It’s her viewpoint. I’m evil. I did this. I killed them on purpose.
Also I killed them on purpose WTF (actually ‘what the f**k f**k f**king f**k, how dare they’, is what I might write). But I know we’re all different. But, these word really feel off for an innocent person.
Sobering, in view of myself using LL notes to deem her guilty.
being fair is extremely difficult whereas thinking I can interpret her state from her notes feels easy but is fraught with danger and judgements.On the flip side - why would they move someone to dayshift when they suspected a higher number of babies dying in their care? That makes 0 sense to me.
Another thing that sticks out in my mind and I'm sure I posted about it at the time but can't 100% remember so I'll say it again. One baby for one of the AM charges was seen with stiff limbs, balled fists and seizure like symptoms. I am very very eager to hear if this child has since been diagnosed with cerebal palsy. One of mine has CP and tbh that sounds like a child with CP... having CP.
Are you suggesting the nhs moved her to days and then created the pattern of unexpected deaths and crashes in the day - in order to pin other baby deaths on her? So they killed more babies in order to cover their tracks over their failures before? Because nobody is really disputing the insulin is a poisoning event. So the nhs poisoned that baby in the day to cover up all the 22+ times they’d ducked up and were stitching Letby up?
I imagine they moved her to days because when colleagues were saying something was wrong about what was happening and what she was doing- they probably thought it was incredibly wild accusations but could be negligence on her part at worse so on a day this would be easier to track. Was that good enough action? Was that the appropriate response with the knowledge they had at that time? That’s not on trial right now.
I wrote a big long answer to this on the last thread, but the tl;dr answer is, it’s a typical nhs thing to do if you suspect competence issues. More staff around in the day time to help with supervision / further training
No, but if they had concerns around a single named person and their competency at their job, moving them to days simply isn’t good enough - it was moving the ‘risk’ from nights to days. And, if their plan was to supervise her more carefully or shadow her, it didn’t work if they are now claiming the babies on day shift suffered the same fate?
The insulin thing isn’t done and dusted as fact though - there is questions around who had access to the bags and it was changed when she wasn’t even on shift and the problems still occurring.
Thank you - even if the competence issue has resulted in suspected numerous deaths? I just can’t see how this can be a policy. And if they are claiming the pattern moved to days, then clearly she wasn’t being supervised any more effectively.
I can honestly see how easy it would be for her to do all of the things she is accused of. If she was intent on doing it. There are so many times where your busy, and I was always so focused on what I was doing I only ever offered an opinion on someone else’s patient if I was asked. I’m trying to explain in a way people who aren’t medical can understand and see how things work.
I have seen one disciplinary, over missing medication, nothing this scale. This was with paediatrics not neonates though. And honestly 70% of the nurses took medication when they shouldn’t have.
A nurse took home tramadol she said she had destroyed that a patient left. People took alsorts of antibiotics home, cefalexin for uti’s. Codeine, and other painkillers. One of the sisters involved in the reporting had even told a nurse to get some diazepam out of the cupboard for a sore back.
They tried to make one person the fall guy, knowing fine well what happened on a daily basis. Of course when it came to it, they all said that the keys were never left on the side, there was always 2 people in the meds room etc. There never was. So many times the second checker would come in when meds had already been drawn up, check the box/bottle was in date and look at the dose, then sign. In reality it could have been anything in the syringes, provided it was a clear medication. It happens as much as you don’t want to believe it would, or at least it did happen.
I got out of nursing soon after this, seeing how easily it can be to throw people they class as friends under the bus, I would never go back. I loved my job, but the politics and bullying are horrendous on some wards.
Just saying this as I understand the blame game, but to me there not things that can be put down to an accident. There are too many incidences. And a lot of them are very similar, and as has been said every time the common denominator was LL
I have seen one disciplinary, over missing medication, nothing this scale. This was with paediatrics not neonates though. And honestly 70% of the nurses took medication when they shouldn’t have.
A nurse took home tramadol she said she had destroyed that a patient left. People took alsorts of antibiotics home, cefalexin for uti’s. Codeine, and other painkillers. One of the sisters involved in the reporting had even told a nurse to get some diazepam out of the cupboard for a sore back.
They tried to make one person the fall guy, knowing fine well what happened on a daily basis. Of course when it came to it, they all said that the keys were never left on the side, there was always 2 people in the meds room etc. There never was. So many times the second checker would come in when meds had already been drawn up, check the box/bottle was in date and look at the dose, then sign. In reality it could have been anything in the syringes, provided it was a clear medication. It happens as much as you don’t want to believe it would, or at least it did happen.
I got out of nursing soon after this, seeing how easily it can be to throw people they class as friends under the bus, I would never go back. I loved my job, but the politics and bullying are horrendous on some wards.
Just saying this as I understand the blame game, but to me there not things that can be put down to an accident. There are too many incidences. And a lot of them are very similar, and as has been said every time the common denominator was LL
How do you explain 3 different organisations 7 years later joining together to send one person down for things they didn’t do to cover something up that they were never in trouble for in the first place?
But none of that is the problem or up for debate right now unless you think that it’s a conspiracy by the nhs to cover their own tracks and that proves Letby innocent. So by that theory and the question over why sudden unexpected similar deaths happened in the day once Letby was moved there- it’s the nhs doing that? Or proving that it’s just incompetence all the way along BUT a different murderous nurse who would have to be on shift for both insulin poisonings was responsible and Letby had the unfortunate combo of being a very very tit nurse and very very unlucky. I’m just honestly interested in how hospital failings cover up makes sense for absolutely anything involved.
So by your argument then, she's guilty and that's that - there's no other explanation?
I like you Ava.
Lots of organisations come together to make things disappear - that's not really out of the realms of possibility. I'm not some mad conspiracy theorist, but what's the point of her having a trial, if its just decided she's guilty and that's that, because the precious NHS could never make mistakes and attempt to cover their own arses?
“I killed them on purpose” is such strong language. If she worried babies had died because of her incompetence, I doubt you’d use that wording. Maybe “they died because I wasn’t good enough” but not killed.
- Status