Lucy Letby Case #48

Status
Thread locked. We start a new thread when they have over 1000 posts, click the blue button to see all threads for this topic and find the latest open thread.
New to Tattle Life? Click "Order Thread by Most Liked Posts" button below to get an idea of what the site is about:
You do know Craig. And I always wanted to say hiya Craig. Are you alright Craig. And they defo went from ng to g as the day is long c. Xx.
---
della you’re soecial too xxx
So, you've had a good day/night?
 
  • Haha
  • Like
Reactions: 13
Nothing to be sorry for, you're hilarious. Get yourself a water before bed 😘😘
 
  • Like
  • Heart
Reactions: 12
Even I look at these photos and think duck, she looks so normal! Surely she can’t have done this!
I think it’s our brains not wanting to accept that we can’t always spot dangerous people which makes us feel vulnerable.

She looks nothing like this now. And not just because she’s older. Honestly you would think it was two separate people.

I don’t know when mug shots are taken, I thought it was when charged or arrested? But I’m sure another poster said there would be a more recent one. I hope that’s true.
Same. I'm not at all perceptive with body language, I just think she looks really pretty and thus innocent (in my monkey brain) in those photos. I would not feel threatened by her at all. She just looks so normal.

Emma Tustin's mugshot was taken after her first arrest which was very soon after Arthur was fatally injured (she had the same white T-shirt and Dutch plaits in her hair as the police bodycam footage while Arthur was still in the house, injured). This was 18 months before she was found guilty.

Lucy is barely recognizable now. Some women, when they start to age, instead of going wrinkly they just lose their prettiness. Her eyes and mouth have just drooped. But she still seems like a woman in her mid-late 20's, like her development arrested when she was caught, so she just comes across like an unattractive younger woman, rather than a 30-something starting to age.

Her eyes are on their way to looking like this:

?u=https%3A%2F%2Ftse2.mm.bing.net%2Fth%3Fid%3DOIP.jpg
 
  • Like
  • Haha
  • Sick
Reactions: 13
Me furiously searching for bald weasels that worked at COCH



Did come across a photo I don’t remember seeing before

View attachment 2311151
Lemme give you a clue: part of his name is actually in one of her psycho post its, and they failed to blank it out because her handwriting is so bad.
---
Did come across a photo I don’t remember seeing before

View attachment 2311151
That's the 3rd time she's got her mug in the local paper in the space of 3 years. Such an attention seeker.
---
 
Last edited:
  • Like
  • Wow
  • Haha
Reactions: 23
Oooo I came to catch up expecting to have missed three whole threads ^.^ thankful to find I only have about twenty pages to read this time x hope everyone is well :)
 
  • Like
  • Heart
Reactions: 6
Mate. Im back to the air bnb. Pray for me girls and slingo. And maybe Craig? Hiya Craig. Xxx
Glad you survived the vomit comet!
Craig is in the middle of something at the moment. A big crowd of botoxed ta duck gay lads mashing it to the strains of ABBA, I'll be bound. Sleep tight, get some crisps into ye xx
 
  • Like
  • Haha
Reactions: 4
Oi yeah and Richard gill you bleeping wick and all you not guiltily wankers. Blurgh. Come and say hi in a couple of weeks babes xxxxxx
---

On. The everything babes. Xxx
---
Tofino and have I got wool and old blondie I love you xxxx
---
do love you all. Ava bella and Daisy and slingo. Alright you guys I do l think you’re Great and bloody here we are nearly a year later xxxxxx justice on its way. Fella. Della xxxxx sorry for when I was a fool and here we are xxxxxx sorry for all my essays xxxx
---
@Tofino the way you think is incredible. I think we’re so in tune. Your wonderfu. Really. Xxx

docmum Your deserve the world xxxx
---
Raspberry juice. I love you! Don’t laugh at me hahah oh sorry guys. What a bloody journey. I’m on a coach. I’m so drunk. Thanks xxxxx
How lush are you?! this post has made my weekend 😂❤❤
 
  • Heart
  • Haha
  • Like
Reactions: 13
Lemme give you a clue: part of his name is actually in one of her psycho post its, and they failed to blank it out because her handwriting is so bad.
---


That's the 3rd time she's got her mug in the local paper in the space of 3 years. Such an attention seeker.
---
I'm not sure how I'd feel hearing "Paging Dr Tiny - Boy, Dr Tiggersmudge Tiny-Boy to x-ray, please".
 
  • Haha
  • Like
Reactions: 15
gob end.
(Might be overdoing it with the HRT gel)
completely unrelated but there’s a place really close to where I live called gob end

What do you think police were trying to find by digging in her garden? Surely there must have been a lead there?
is it not usual in a full house search? Hmm seen them in a few true crime cases, but guess they must have suspected something being there


I do! He is a STRANGE guy with a messy history. I am all for 2nd chances but he turns that notion on its head with his weirdness. Oddball, misfit, openly admits online to having no empathy & being able to do what he wants w/o guilt. Sings online, ominous lyrics. Bullied and bullying in his past. Prior heroin addict & school dropout. Then obsession with criminal psychology. Ego-maniac, supreme self-confidence, incel type. Socially awkward. Dead eyes. I think he was turned down outright by one of them, likely Kaylee. He stalked them for months. Then you read the evidence for turning his phone off, his car circling the property. I think he came to kill her but the others got in the way. He was so stupidly over-confident, he even went back to the crime scene next morning.
ive been following this case too, nipped over to the thread a few days ago. Definitely going to be a very public case


Thank you that’s interesting. I didn’t realise there was an Italian nurse too.

Fame, they say, can be addictive. And statisticians who are “respected” in their fields (or indeed any other experts) are not immune to that.

I imagine his success in overturning Lucia de Berk’s conviction, and the Italian nurse’s, has given him a taste for a different kind of success and a different kind of fame to the one he’d previously been used to within the confines of his limited audience in the ivory tower that we call academia. No doubt this got to his head and by the sounds of it did weird things to it. Little wonder he’s jumped on the LL case in hope of replicating a similar success and experiencing a similar high that comes from it. The trouble for Richard Gill is that:
1. He’s forgotten the basic assumptions of his own field of expertise: that statistics itself is based on probability, so when he says he can definitively “prove” this or that, this just makes me laugh because what he should really have said is that “based on my statistical model, and the data that I applied that model to, there’s an ‘X’% probability/chance that this is true/false.” But he treats it as gospel, which makes me wonder why he would do or say that. Is he really as bright as we’re told he is? If so, why does he hide the fact that there’s no certainty in statistics?
2. Unlike the de Berk case, the prosecution in LL’s case was careful not to put the weight of its argument on statistics — they relied heavily on medical evidence and witness evidence instead, which is probably why BM didn’t call Richard Gill in as a witness (that, and possibly the fact that he’s made so many unhinged comments on Twitter that one wonders whether bringing him in will actually help the defence or make matters even worse).
3. The insulin cases. Why won’t Richard Gill tell us what the probability is of NICU babies in the U.K. getting poisoned in this way (let alone, get poisoned “accidentally” in this manner)? I’d be very interested in hearing how often, from the point of view of statistics, does this sort of thing happen to babies in NICU. Probably not often at all. So even if we use his own argument, it backfires on him.

I’m sorry I can’t take the likes of Gill too seriously. I’ve seen some academics in my time (people who are bright and successful within the confines of the ivory tower) let fame and success get to their heads. They are used to being surrounded and adored by throngs of fans (colleagues, PhD students, fellow academics from across the globe) looking up to them, complimenting them, begging to work with them, and massaging their ego. They get invited left right and centre to give talks, write papers, publish books etc. And let me make this very clear — whilst the vast majority of academics cope with this sort of attention admirably and professionally — some, a very small minority, from what I’ve seen, sadly, crack under the pressure of the limelight. I suspect that Gill is one of those who’s in the minority: fame seems to have just got to his head.

I don’t know him personally, so I’m just guessing based on his bizarre rants on Twitter. I believe that he may have mistaken being a successful academic statistician with being a detective. He may be an expert in one, but he’s certainly not in the other.
If you’ve read this far (on a Saturday morning of all times) thanks for hearing me out and apologies for the long reply.
I think you have got Gill down to a tee tbh.

Daniela Poggiali is the other nurse he ‘helped’ get her convictions quashed. The Italian justice system is so different to ours. She was strange posing next to her dead patients 🤢. He had also tried and failed to have Ben Geen freed and I’ve seen posted he thinks Allitt is innocent too 🤷🏼‍♀️
Honestly at this point I think he just wants to add to the cases he gets overturned and add to his portfolio. Allitt even confessed, but no.. Gill thinks she’s innocent.. 🤦‍♀️


It's the attempted murder charges that will be taking the time, it's pretty hard to prove because they have to be sure she was intending to kill them, and not just doing a preliminary act for a future attempt, nor plainly assaulting them. There are no alternative charges to the attempted murders.

I'm hoping that some of the murders - particularly of Babies E, I and O - are very, very strong cases, enough that the jury can accept that she is a serial killer and therefore support granting justice for all the other murdered babies, and recognise all the attempted murders as such, rather than thinking they were just ABH or something lesser. (All the seven murder charges are pretty strong in their own right anyway, E, I and O are just the strongest IMO.)

With the air embolism attempted murders (babies B and M), if they believe the babies suffered an air embolism, it should be pretty straight forward to convict her, because the cuntess herself said she knew the ultimate result of air embolism is death. With the air/fluid in the NG tube (babies G and Q) if they convict her for the murders of babies C and I, this should also be straightforward, as this would prove her aim by doing this was to kill - especially Baby I, who she went after so many times. It would then be left to prove if she was the one who did it to Babies B, M, G and Q, which again ought be straightforward if they've already found her guilty of any other charge.

Being found guilty for babies G, M and Q is particularly important, as they have been left brain damaged, and this will allow the parents to sue, which should help provide for the care they will need throughout their lives. A guilty verdict for the attempted murder of Baby Q has an extra level of importance, as this will definitively mean that Karen Rees has to face consequences - after refusing to remove Lucy after Baby P, Karen Rees said she would take responsibility if anything happened, and it did.

I can't remember what Lucy said about the effects of insulin and whether she has admitted she knew it would be fatal. The only thing the judge said in his summing up with regards to Bowel Movement's attempts to muddy the waters about the amounts administered, was that the jury can accept the expert's evidence on the insulin as accurate. Therefore the jury have to accept that Baby L received double the amount of insulin as Baby F, suggesting that these were indeed murder attempts. However, the deceitful nurse who refused to admit hanging the same bag back on Baby F has confused things, and I hope this doesn't affect the jury, especially as the symptoms show he was administered insulin while Lucy was on shift.

Baby K is a very strong case, and BNE obviously agrees, as this was one of the cases he lead his closing speech with. They can either believe the constantly changing account of proven liar Lucy, or Dr Jayaram. They will also be considering the "dance the dance" exchange during cross (which I saw!) in which Lucy desperately tried to avoid admitting that a computer record proved she was right by the baby's cot just before the baby collapsed for the second time, due to her breathing tube being dislodged. During the second and third dislodgings, the baby was sedated.

This leaves babies H, J, and N, the ones where they don't really know what she actually did.

-----

For Baby H, if they find her guilty of the attempted murder of Baby K by dislodging the breathing tube, and they believe the prosecution's suggestion that Lucy may have dislodged the chest drains for Baby H, they might consider this a similar murder method.

Charge 1: Lucy was the designated nurse, with no other babies in the room. Basically the dad left about midnight, and nothing had happened beforehand. Despite this, Lucy had made several records from 10pm onwards suggesting the baby was desaturating and struggling. She is accused of feeding false information to Dr Ventress, to make Dr V record inaccurate information. These inaccurate records from Lucy and Dr V do not match other notes at the time, nor the dad's account that everything was uneventful before he left. He got home and was woken by a call to go back urgently, and arrived to find Lucy participating in the resus. Baby H was mottled. Dr Ventress recorded a chest drain was dislodged. Lucy recorded this whole event happening at 11:30pm, when it was actually after midnight.

Charge 2: Again after the dad left, he was recalled to the hospital as his baby had collapsed. Lucy had texted a friend saying that she was helping the designated nurse for Baby H, so "at least still involved but don't have the responsibility". Lucy was so involved with Baby H, that the doctor had wrongly believed she was the designated nurse. Lucy was also the one to alert this doctor to this collapse.

The circumstantial evidence is very strong that she definitely did "something" to Baby H, and I hope they consider that the desaturations are life-threatening enough to constitute attempted murder. The only way I could see them not considering it attempted murder is if they get caught up on not knowing what happened, or think that her involvement with resuscitating negates it being attempted murder. She was involved in resus for all the babies, including the murdered ones, and I think her repeatedly going after Baby I until she died shows that her intent for all these repeated collapses was indeed murder.


------

The case that she did something to Baby J is decent, because she was the only person there in Room 2 during the unexplained seizures. I hope the jury also notice the dual twin link: Baby J was a surviving twin, and just before Baby J's seizures, premature twins had been admitted as an emergency in room 1. While I believe Lucy was frustrated at not being able to get her mitts on these twins, the prosecution just said this gave her a big opportunity as most of the other staff were dealing with the twins at that moment.

The jury might be debating for a long time over whatever she did to Baby J was attempted murder or just assault, because if, as suggested, smothering was the cause, she obviously stopped well before the baby was dead. (Personally, I actually think this baby survived an air embolism, because she had had the mottling in the earlier unexplained desaturations. People can sometimes survive air embolisms depending on where the air bubbles happen to travel within the circulatory system; how slowly the air is injected; and the quantity of air). The jury were told they don't need to figure out exactly what she did, but it's kind of important in this case in order to determine whether it was just ABH or attempted murder. I suppose finding her guilty of other attempted murders raises the chances she will be found guilty of this one, too. Supporting evidence is the making a fuss about the baby's stoma, like she did with Baby H's chest drains, and Baby N's haemophilia. Also she facebook stalked the parents, as per. But unfortunately I think there's a moderate chance she will be found not guilty on this one.

---------

For Baby N, there are three charges, for which they don't know exactly what she did, except that it was very painful. She had texted her colleagues she was going to google his haemophilia, and claimed he had a 50/50 chance of survival, which is not accurate. She later claimed in police interviews she didn't know he had haemophilia and has no independent memory of him. I'm hoping the prosecution has done enough to convict Lucy on at least one of these charges.

Charge 1: Everyone else is recorded as being busy, Lucy is not recorded as doing anything for 7 minutes at the time Baby N collapsed. Baby N's designated nurse had just left the vicinity, like in other cases where the designated nurse or parents had just left. The baby was "screaming" which medical evidence said was from an inflicted painful stimulus.

Charge 2: Lots of complex evidence and falsified nurse notes here. Basically she came into work early and he immediately desaturated. She claimed she didn't know which room she would have been in, but texts confirmed where she was. Baby N's dad said Lucy had phoned him, and he did not get the impression of how serious it was. A different nurse phoned him 10 minutes later, asking them to come in urgently. Despite this originally being agreed evidence, Lucy disputed the Dad's account under cross, saying she didn't recall phoning him (and threw her defense team under the bus in the process). Probably because she made a false nursing note, saying the parents didn't answer then another nurse phoned them later. Lucy messaged a friend claiming to have seen blood, which, if true, she failed to escalate, despite the baby having haemophilia. If not true, she was scene-setting for the baby's later collapse. Baby N was found to have a swollen and bleeding throat, and I personally believe she tried to recreate the catastrophic bleed she caused Baby E.

Charge 3: Again, very complex, but basically he collapsed immediately after his parents left, and his throat was so swollen and bloody they struggled to intubate. When the transport team arrived to take him to Alder Hey, Lucy was very agitated and asked who these people were. When all the doctors were in a huddle discuss the transfer, Baby N suddenly collapsed again, but they were able to resuscitate him.
Extremely thought out analysis of the charges / thinking, thank you. I agree about babies E, I and O and am hoping because the jury have been told they can look at the cases as a whole this helps with the verdicts.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 6
Same. I'm not at all perceptive with body language, I just think she looks really pretty and thus innocent (in my monkey brain) in those photos. I would not feel threatened by her at all. She just looks so normal.

Emma Tustin's mugshot was taken after her first arrest which was very soon after Arthur was fatally injured (she had the same white T-shirt and Dutch plaits in her hair as the police bodycam footage while Arthur was still in the house, injured). This was 18 months before she was found guilty.

Lucy is barely recognizable now. Some women, when they start to age, instead of going wrinkly they just lose their prettiness. Her eyes and mouth have just drooped. But she still seems like a woman in her mid-late 20's, like her development arrested when she was caught, so she just comes across like an unattractive younger woman, rather than a 30-something starting to age.

Her eyes are on their way to looking like this:

View attachment 2311142
Aww too bad she can’t get an Upper Bleph in prison 😏😂
 
  • Haha
  • Heart
Reactions: 5
Oi yeah and Richard gill you bleeping wick and all you not guiltily wankers. Blurgh. Come and say hi in a couple of weeks babes xxxxxx
---

On. The everything babes. Xxx
---
Tofino and have I got wool and old blondie I love you xxxx
---
do love you all. Ava bella and Daisy and slingo. Alright you guys I do l think you’re Great and bloody here we are nearly a year later xxxxxx justice on its way. Fella. Della xxxxx sorry for when I was a fool and here we are xxxxxx sorry for all my essays xxxx
---
@Tofino the way you think is incredible. I think we’re so in tune. Your wonderfu. Really. Xxx

docmum Your deserve the world xxxx
---
Raspberry juice. I love you! Don’t laugh at me hahah oh sorry guys. What a bloody journey. I’m on a coach. I’m so drunk. Thanks xxxxx
Thought you'd finally started using paragraphs but it's just a million different posts 😂 How's the headache this morning babes?
 
  • Haha
  • Like
Reactions: 19
Status
Thread locked. We start a new thread when they have over 1000 posts, click the blue button to see all threads for this topic and find the latest open thread.