Lucy Letby Case #41

[Tofino]

It is quite anxiety inducing hearing today. If it’s of any reassurance, Myers took a similar tactic with Jordan Monaghan defence and it didn’t work on the jury. I’m trying to find more detail on how he tries to discredit medical experts but this article touches on it. Tbh it sounds like a copy and paste job with the closing speech!

Ben Myers QC, defending, told the jury: “These are awful allegations and you would not be human if you were not upset and maybe angry at the thought of what is alleged in this case.

“The prosecution have a theory, a pattern, they rely upon very heavily.

And he said a dozen medical experts could not say definitively what caused the collapses and deaths of the children, and concluded the cause of their deaths was “unascertained”.

But the allegation of the murder of Logan was built on “very tenuous stuff” Mr Myers told the jury.

Jury urged to clear triple murder accused Jordan Monaghan of charges

Jurors have been urged to clear a triple murder suspect accused of “awful allegations” concerning the killing of two of his children and his new…

www.lancashiretelegraph.co.uk

 

[yellowmellow]

In my opinion, there's nothing full-fat coke can't do. Clean the toilet... Check. Cure a hangover... Check

 

[Haveyouanywool]

What would catching her I act look like though. She is literally just pushing a syringe the wrong way for most of them. With E his mum saw her bent over him with blood on his face and he later had a massive bleed, and Baby K was attacked by her tube being dislodged. Lucy was watching her de satting and did absolutely nothing, how can a 25wk baby who can't breathe for herself self correct.

Baby E’s mum said he was screaming and bleeding.
I know he was obviously in hospital but what medical procedure was he having that would cause screaming and bleeding? If not a procedure then what we’re they symptoms of?
If you came across an adult hospital patient screaming and bleeding, with no obvious medical explanation or causative procedure would you think ‘oh well, nothing to see here’? Then, to cap it all, the patient dies.
I know babies cry (maybe not premmies though), but come on.

 

[Danica Catrick]

We all know doctors aren't perfect, they're human after all. The NHS is massively underfunded and struggling. Neither of these things account for why these babies became ill or died only when LL was on duty or involved somehow in their treatment.

 

[nosycowmoo]

Wasted journey today

 

[FastAndTheCurious7]

There was such a mixed bag of opinions at the start of this trail but we are pretty much now all in the guilty camp. If Bellend Ben hasn’t changed your opinion or put doubt in your mind we have to trust it’s not working on the jury either

 

[sebanna]

11:21am

Mr Myers says it was accepted by the prosecution there was sub-optimal care in the cases of Child D and Child H, but in the latter they did not give much more detail.

He says for Child A, there was a 'four-hour' "delay in fluids", and the "line was placed too close to his heart" and was 'not in the optimal place'.

"There is plenty of sub-optimal care knocking about in this unit".

He says some of the sub-optimal care is 'more contentious than others'.

He says there is a "list" for Child H, including the second chest drain for Child H.

'Poor management of stomas' for Child J, and not moving Child K to a tertiary centre, a failure to have factor 8 ready for Child N, 'mistakes in ventilation' and 'getting the doses of adrenaline wrong' for Child P.

Failure to react to 'dark bile aspirates' for Child C for 24 hours.

He says Child Q was moved to a tertiary centre after three bilous aspirates.

He says that is on top of 'babies not being in the right place'.

He says babies like Child G and Child I were "prone to serious problems" and "not always" looked after sufficiently qualified staff.

He says 'with one exception', senior consultants refused to accept anything was wrong in the 12 months, except for one doctor who failed to attend an emergency as quick as she should have been in the case of Child E.

I think the criticism for baby K being at coch NNU is unfair, she was moved as soon as it was safe to do so. Very premature babies are often cared for at level 2 units in the short term. Babies can be born prematurely suddenly or at home and the priority is stabilising them.

 

[RinsedHoops]

41 threads in and my first full guilty vote. It's been a while lads but I got there!

 

[Lucyxxxx]

Last roll of the dice when it comes to her defence
Lied about going commando cause she was asked infront of her parents.

 

[avabella]

What's with the secrecy of some covert info that has apparently been gleaned? Either post it or don't, but what's the point in the teaser?

 

[MmmB777]

So am I right in thinking there are just 4 crashes involving these children when LL isn’t around?

Nothing like crashes I don’t think! One of them for baby G was a projectile vomit. The dad had already said in his statement though that she had never done it before the date the first alleged attack (huge vomit onto chair and floor) happened but did on occasion have projectile vomits of less severity after. She was left severely brain damaged from the first attack so I’d say that really doesn’t add any doubt at all.

thanks @nosycowmoo we appreciate you taking some time for your write up this evening

@docmum I had my Greek salad! It was soo good but probably because I’d been thinking about it all day thanks to you hope yours was nice.X

 

[Windowtothewall]

Hoping and praying for some @Tofino and @Windowtothewall cross referencing to the wiki, evidence we’ve heard and cleverness posts today
So 5 babies today? I imagine the insulin babies he’s going to skirt over incredibly quickly. Can’t see him going on much after Thursday morning

Have had to work today so just trying to catch up on breaks and yes, I have thoughts, lots of them haha. Will write up once finished with work! My initial thoughts are - he's doing the best he can to try and discredit the witnesses and evidence, but he's only picking one aspect of it to argue.

Best way to describe his strategy is with an easier example. Imagine my boss says to me, "Windows, you're under investigation for stealing money because (a) colleague saw you (b) there's always money missing when you access the account (c) you're suddenly wearing lots of expensive Prada clothes we know you can't afford on your normal salary and (d) independent experts have tracked the money to an IP address in your area

And my defence lawyer says - "Windows is not guilty because she wasn't wearing Prada, it was actually Chanel and the witnesses and colleagues got the brand wrong which means everything they say is a lie and can't be trusted."

 

[IGiveUp22]

I would be embarrassed to be his wife

 

[DoseofReality]

Sending everyone some love++.

I hope BNE was knee deep in his collection last night and popped some Prosecco.

Richard Gill can fuck off. These babies were physically tortured. If there was any merit in her ending their suffering she'd have used other means. Instead she caused more torture than any of them were otherwise experiencing and continues to torture their loved ones and her former colleagues 8 years later. She has no mercy. She should be shown no mercy.
---
Oh and happy birthday to little @MmmB777.

 

[SnoopySnooper86]

She was so anguished etc but had no fucking issue still going back to work in her office job for 2 years at the same hospital around all these meanies. Brass neck of it!

 

[Futtrit]

i absolutely despise the word ‘banter’. You only ever it see it used to defend awful things someone has said rather than admit they were wrong. And here we have a bloody defence barrister using it.

For the bantz.....


Yeah. Usually to excuse sexism/homophobia/racism etc and blaming the victim for not being able to 'take a joke'.

 

[jackssack]

On page 29 and discussing the idea of being full.

Ben, guess what. When my son was in NICU, it was almost full. Which is why they were a bit reluctant to admit him initially until they did a blood gas.

When he was readmitted at 2 weeks to the children's ward, we waited in a cubicle in the children's emergency department for 14+ hours, because the children's ward was full.

In my son's 7 days at the NICU and 13 days on the children's ward, both of which were either full or almost full, no one's suboptimal care caused a collapse or death. And I'll be honest and say sometimes, things were late happening, when cannulas failed, he missed antibiotic doses waiting for new ones, sometimes they didn't always notice my son had been sick in his cot in NICU and sometimes, we didn't get the best care. They were absolutely rushed off their feet though and they did the best they could in October/November.


But again, none of this resulted in serious collapses or death.

Also, no one was texting away on their phone or creepily hanging around either and no one was their when they weren't on shift.

Exactly!
The unit would have been full and stretched at other times when Lucifer wasn't on shift and when she was on holiday and guess what? No unexpected deaths occurred.
BM is clutching at straws.

 

[Windowtothewall]

"Mr Myers says Letby was in 2015: "She's a 25-year-old band 5 nurse, an excellent one - that's what she was, looking after dozens, if not hundreds of babies...day after day"

Well, she wasn't excellent because guilty of murder or not, she still had a much higher rate of baby deaths/collapses than any of the other ICU nurses. Her performance was terrible AND she was illegally taking back confidential handover notes/patient files!

"She was also "scared, anxious and struggling to hold it all together"."

Well, she wasn't was she? Given she had the presence of mind to shoot post its to her lawyers from the dock, change her statement from police interview to the stand, and held her own against BNE very well.

 

[AllieBee]

Busy? But I thought the bus station was understaffed....

Couldn't get the buses moving, too many bodies under the wheels

 

[docmum]

Most of the fb freaks who came off the fence last week are now back, not just off it, but over it and have her banged to rights, cos he's " brought up some excellent stuff and does not need to prove her innocence"
This scares me..the jury are going to be fed a week full of this nonsense and are going to be left with it when the judge gives his direction..

I think this is where the judges summing up next week comes in to it, anyone on the jury who may have a wobble this week will be advised to be objective using an applied method of understanding to the case - BM has nothing for anyone to hold on to when both sides are set out objectively.
I haven’t read any of todays live reporting and I don’t feel I’ve missed anything thanks to the thread - might be worth doing the same and stepping back while you feel like this xx