Lucy Letby Case #40

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I have not contributed very much to the threads but have been reading them.

The thought of those poor little babies who lost their lives simply because evil in the form of that woman happened to work in a particular hospital ... I cannot even begin to imagine how those poor parents must feel.

I hope that justice is done and that she never sees life outside prison bars ever again.
 
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I hope now he’s explained the people who thought he went to far actually understand now, he’s just showing she was happy to lie under oath about insignificant things
 
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Also regarding instructions to the jury, this is what the judge said about the defence:

'The defendant says she did nothing inappropriate, let alone harmful to any child. Her case is that the sudden collapses and death were, or may have been, from natural causes or for some unascertained reason or from some failure to provide appropriate care, and they were not attributable to any deliberate harmful act by her.'

So all the jury have to go on for the cause of death is a lot of expert testimony (and except for Dr Evans, the defence weren't able to cast doubt on any of the other experts like Dr Bohin, Dr Marnerides, Prof Arthurs etc). AND the say so of LL on denying what the experts say happened (And for the insulin cases she did agree with them). Since LL has already been proven to lie on the stand for minor things (pyjamas, social life, isolation, go commando, affair with Dr NN etc), her own credibility is shot.

So if the defence had had any corroborating evidence (experts, messages to friends or colleagues, DATIX reports, diary entries, post it notes, friends and colleagues who testified on her behalf) to support:

1) Natural causes
2) Some unascertained reason
3) Some failure of care

This would have helped cast doubt in the jury's head about the prosecution expert evidence. In the absence of it - the only feasible explanation is going to be the prosecution expert witnesses cause of death. Unless of course someone disregards all the expert evidence because they think it was indeed a conspiracy. But I can't imagine conspiracy theorists would make up a majority of the jury!
 
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Thank you for the updates, I'm only just able to catch up as I was working this morning.

I can hardly bear to read about Child I, those poor parents.

LL needs to rot in hell for eternity.
 
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It's all well and good saying the defence doesn't HAVE to prove anything, it's for the prosecution to prove their case, but if this was me and my life on the line, I think I would be producing any tiny scrap of proof that I could muster to defend myself! It's a bit silly to say "well, there was no need for witnesses because they don't have to prove she didn't do it, the pros just have to prove she did", because, no, if that was an innocent woman sat in the dock, why the hell would you not want to prove you didn't do it! I'd want to prove I was innocent by any means possible!
 
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The defence lawyers aren't doctors. BM doesn't know why the babies collapsed and died, he can't say to the jury this death was expected or natural. The jury probably have no knowledge of how special care babies fare and how many die.
 
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12:32pm

Child J desaturated at 4.40am on November 27.

Mary Griffiths was working in room 2.

She said in evidence Child J was a 'joy to look after', and described the first desaturation, which she and Nicola Dennison dealed with.

The desaturation was "alarmingly low".

Ms Dennison said, after cross-examination, Child J collapsed after her feed.

Dr Kalyilil Verghese recorded the shift was busy. Twins had been admitted to room 1 at 6.10am.

He said he reviewed Child J once, and all information was given to him by nursing staff. He noted there had been 'two profound desaturations', timed at 5.15am.

Child J was moved to nursery 2 when the designated nurse was Mary Griffith.

Mr Johnson says Letby was then involved in care of babies in room 2, despite her designated babies being in room
Who is this? Can’t see mentioned in WIKI
No name?
 
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[/QUOTE]
It's all well and good saying the defence doesn't HAVE to prove anything, it's for the prosecution to prove their case, but if this was me and my life on the line, I think I would be producing any tiny scrap of proof that I could muster to defend myself! It's a bit silly to say "well, there was no need for witnesses because they don't have to prove she didn't do it, the pros just have to prove she did", because, no, if that was an innocent woman sat in the dock, why the hell would you not want to prove you didn't do it! I'd want to prove I was innocent by any means possible!
It’s very hard to “prove innocence” because you can’t prove a negative. Unless you have a specific defence (for example self-defence, duress, an alibi) all you can really do is cast doubt on the prosecution case.
 
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It’s very hard to “prove innocence” because you can’t prove a negative. Unless you have a specific defence (for example self-defence, duress, an alibi) all you can really do is cast doubt on the prosecution case.
Have they even cast doubt on the prosecution case though? I don’t think they have. And they do have a specific defence - lack of staffing, natural cause of death, conspiracy gang of 4. They haven’t proven any of that.
 
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Have they even cast doubt on the prosecution case though? I don’t think they have. And they do have a specific defence - lack of staffing, natural cause of death, conspiracy gang of 4. They haven’t proven any of that.
I found the plumbers statement compelling 🙂
 
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Do you think that LL looked up details of the Beverley Allitt case on Wikipedia and the prosecution wanted to use this as evidence but the Judge disallowed it for some legal reason?

Asking for a friend.
 
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New thread

 
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Have they even cast doubt on the prosecution case though? I don’t think they have. And they do have a specific defence - lack of staffing, natural cause of death, conspiracy gang of 4. They haven’t proven any of that.
I meant in general terms - they can only offer up points which would serve to weaken the protection’s case.

In relation to a specific defence you have to provide evidence which supports that. For example - I wasn’t there, I was at place X and here is witness Y to confirm that.
What her defence have done is offer up alternative explanations for the accusations being made.
 
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It was the wrong lass…. (Who has a username rhyming with lass??)
Nobody but @Lucyxxxx is an ass so that will do 😂😳

I don't know why I chose Lucyxxxx out of everyone because she scares me a bit. But I've made my decision and I'm sticking to it!
 
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I meant in general terms - they can only offer up points which would serve to weaken the protection’s case.

In relation to a specific defence you have to provide evidence which supports that. For example - I wasn’t there, I was at place X and here is witness Y to confirm that.
What her defence have done is offer up alternative explanations for the accusations being made.
but those alternative explanations hold no weight when they have no medical expert backing it up. It’s like saying you have an alibi but not providing the witness. It means nothing in this case
 
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