Lucy Letby Case #39

[Deeznutslol]

Not medical, can you explain that please, I love learning about the how’s or why’s. That’s the difference between us here and others, we are willing to learn and investigate to form an opinion.

She (like many others, statistician Richard Gill included) believes this idiot who claims to be a scientist and said that Hindmarsh incorrectly calculated the amount of insulin required to produce the steady state plasma concentration of 4656 pmol/L of insulin observed in baby F. He thinks she would have needed to put just over 10mL (1000 units of insulin) into each TPN bag to produce that (20 mL in total if she contaminated 2).
The expert witnesses say that it would have taken 1.8 units of insulin per hour to produce that concentration, so depending on how long the TPN was run for (let’s say 24 hr) she would have only needed to put just shy of 0.5 mL into the TPN (1.8 x 24 = 43.2 units, each mL of insulin contains 100 units, so 0.432 mL) if she contaminated 2 bags then she’d have only needed 1mL or slightly less.

The clown scientist has finally released the full calculation and it’s as I said it would be, completely wrong because they don’t understand how to convert between units. Also I have no idea where tf they got their data from either.

Spoiler: Correct calculation vs incorrect

here is the correct calculation, apologies for the weird decimal points and messy hand writing (unfortunately I didn’t have time to make a 27 page report or a fancy flow diagram either)

The reason why I’ve calculated 1.5 IU rather than the 1.8 hindmarsh got is because hindmarsh would have likely used pharmacokinetic data for neonates, where as I’ve used the data I can find online for insulin pharmacokinetics in adults. This data is the distribution volume and the half life, however these parameters vary in ‘special’ populations (e.g neonates, children, geriatric patients, those with renal insufficiency etc) and distribution volume in particular tends to be different in neonates. Hindmarsh would have accounted for this difference in his calculation, I haven’t because as I say, I couldn’t find any data for it and I’m not an expert. However, as you can see, more or less the same result and certainly not 44IU per hour like this fool has suggested.

 

[amsmall]

LL's collection when raided. Look whose in the background

 

[tay65]

She can recall the Dr not washing her hands but can’t recall 90% if the things she’s asked by BNE.

There is no tangible proof that Dr didn’t wash their hands

Once again this is the first time it's been mentioned by LL. No Datix about it and as far as we know no text message about it.

 

[Cack_Conroe]

What really gets me is why her really odd jaw/ chin is never shown in the court drawings. I’m super critical of my self so I’m not being nasty, I just don’t know why the drawing are so off with regards to her jaw/chin. Without an accurate depiction of that, I just can’t take those court drawings seriously. I am patiently (kind of, sort of, all in its own good time, BUT, hopefully sooner rather than later) waiting for the mug shot, it will be epic!
---

Her jaw and chin look totally normal in real life! In her old pictures it was only there sometimes, so I think it was just one of the faces she pulled.

IMO these two pictures are the most accurate. In this first one, it's the only one that has her nose, cheeks and face shape right and the correct level of aging. Though the lips aren't big enough and the eyes look generic and like she's wearing mascara.

This one has the eyes right and the big lips to an extent, but the nose isn't big enough and too upturned:

I'm sure I read somewhere that it's artistically difficult to draw women with strong features without making them look masculine. In most of the drawings I've seen of her, the artists have opted for downplaying her features (especially her nose) rather than making her look too masculine. Also most of the artists have gone over the top in depicting her physical aging, making her look mumsy and older than she really looks.

 

[Katkitkat]

She (like many others, statistician Richard Gill included) believes this idiot who claims to be a scientist and said that Hindmarsh incorrectly calculated the amount of insulin required to produce the steady state plasma concentration of 4656 pmol/L of insulin observed in baby F. He thinks she would have needed to put just over 10mL (1000 units of insulin) into each TPN bag to produce that (20 mL in total if she contaminated 2).
The expert witnesses say that it would have taken 1.8 units of insulin per hour to produce that concentration, so depending on how long the TPN was run for (let’s say 24 hr) she would have only needed to put just shy of 0.5 mL into the TPN (1.8 x 24 = 43.2 units, each mL of insulin contains 100 units, so 0.432 mL) if she contaminated 2 bags then she’d have only needed 1mL or slightly less.

The clown scientist has finally released the full calculation and it’s as I said it would be, completely wrong because they don’t understand how to convert between units. Also I have no idea where tf they got their data from either.

Spoiler: Correct calculation vs incorrect

View attachment 2246641
here is the correct calculation, apologies for the weird decimal points and messy hand writing (unfortunately I didn’t have time to make a 27 page report or a fancy flow diagram either)
View attachment 2246645
The reason why I’ve calculated 1.5 IU rather than the 1.8 hindmarsh got is because hindmarsh would have likely used pharmacokinetic data for neonates, where as I’ve used the data I can find online for insulin pharmacokinetics in adults. This data is the distribution volume and the half life, however these parameters vary in ‘special’ populations (e.g neonates, children, geriatric patients, those with renal insufficiency etc) and distribution volume in particular tends to be different in neonates. Hindmarsh would have accounted for this difference in his calculation, I haven’t because as I say, I couldn’t find any data for it and I’m not an expert. However, as you can see, more or less the same result and certainly not 44IU per hour like this fool has suggested.

You're way too clever

 

[Lynn’ssnazzycardigan]

---

Not medical, can you explain that please, I love learning about the how’s or why’s. That’s the difference between us here and others, we are willing to learn and investigate to form an opinion.

To further add to deeznuts excellent answer to your question. Actrapid is the short acting insulin we often use in hospitals. There are different insulins for different uses but actrapid is the one you use if you need to make up an infusion. It is like super-concentrated so it is drawn up/measured and given via specific 1ml syringes that measure units rather than ml. There are 100 units in 1ml. I’ve never had to draw up more than 80 units in 1 go. 20ml syringes are actually quite large and I would imagine they would be conspicuous to fill with insulin and sneak around with. It would be total overkill as just a few mls would be lethal for an adult if given in one go.

 

[sebanna]

She (like many others, statistician Richard Gill included) believes this idiot who claims to be a scientist and said that Hindmarsh incorrectly calculated the amount of insulin required to produce the steady state plasma concentration of 4656 pmol/L of insulin observed in baby F. He thinks she would have needed to put just over 10mL (1000 units of insulin) into each TPN bag to produce that (20 mL in total if she contaminated 2).
The expert witnesses say that it would have taken 1.8 units of insulin per hour to produce that concentration, so depending on how long the TPN was run for (let’s say 24 hr) she would have only needed to put just shy of 0.5 mL into the TPN (1.8 x 24 = 43.2 units, each mL of insulin contains 100 units, so 0.432 mL) if she contaminated 2 bags then she’d have only needed 1mL or slightly less.

The clown scientist has finally released the full calculation and it’s as I said it would be, completely wrong because they don’t understand how to convert between units. Also I have no idea where tf they got their data from either.

Spoiler: Correct calculation vs incorrect

View attachment 2246641
here is the correct calculation, apologies for the weird decimal points and messy hand writing (unfortunately I didn’t have time to make a 27 page report or a fancy flow diagram either)
View attachment 2246645
The reason why I’ve calculated 1.5 IU rather than the 1.8 hindmarsh got is because hindmarsh would have likely used pharmacokinetic data for neonates, where as I’ve used the data I can find online for insulin pharmacokinetics in adults. This data is the distribution volume and the half life, however these parameters vary in ‘special’ populations (e.g neonates, children, geriatric patients, those with renal insufficiency etc) and distribution volume in particular tends to be different in neonates. Hindmarsh would have accounted for this difference in his calculation, I haven’t because as I say, I couldn’t find any data for it and I’m not an expert. However, as you can see, more or less the same result and certainly not 44IU per hour like this fool has suggested.

The trouble is to the lay person that incorrect calculation looks really professionally done, you actually need specialised knowledge to understand its incorrect. I worry that if the jury saw it and some of the other theories from the Redditch scientists that it could influence case.

 

[Deeznutslol]

The trouble is to the lay person that incorrect calculation looks really professionally done, you actually need specialised knowledge to understand its incorrect. I worry that if the jury saw it and some of the other theories from the Redditch scientists that it could influence case.

Yeah it is a worry, but I’d hope that the jury weren’t reading about the case on reddit (could be cause for a mistrial) and would also put greater faith in the calculations from an expert with proven qualifications and years worth of experience than some faceless anon reddit user with an obvious hatred/jealously of healthcare professionals in general and a blatant conspiracy theorist agenda.

 

[Tina1991]

Can anyone tell me what is now happening in case? Is the jury now out with deliberations?

 

[mysteriousgirl69]

She (like many others, statistician Richard Gill included) believes this idiot who claims to be a scientist and said that Hindmarsh incorrectly calculated the amount of insulin required to produce the steady state plasma concentration of 4656 pmol/L of insulin observed in baby F. He thinks she would have needed to put just over 10mL (1000 units of insulin) into each TPN bag to produce that (20 mL in total if she contaminated 2).
The expert witnesses say that it would have taken 1.8 units of insulin per hour to produce that concentration, so depending on how long the TPN was run for (let’s say 24 hr) she would have only needed to put just shy of 0.5 mL into the TPN (1.8 x 24 = 43.2 units, each mL of insulin contains 100 units, so 0.432 mL) if she contaminated 2 bags then she’d have only needed 1mL or slightly less.

The clown scientist has finally released the full calculation and it’s as I said it would be, completely wrong because they don’t understand how to convert between units. Also I have no idea where tf they got their data from either.

Spoiler: Correct calculation vs incorrect

View attachment 2246641
here is the correct calculation, apologies for the weird decimal points and messy hand writing (unfortunately I didn’t have time to make a 27 page report or a fancy flow diagram either)
View attachment 2246645
The reason why I’ve calculated 1.5 IU rather than the 1.8 hindmarsh got is because hindmarsh would have likely used pharmacokinetic data for neonates, where as I’ve used the data I can find online for insulin pharmacokinetics in adults. This data is the distribution volume and the half life, however these parameters vary in ‘special’ populations (e.g neonates, children, geriatric patients, those with renal insufficiency etc) and distribution volume in particular tends to be different in neonates. Hindmarsh would have accounted for this difference in his calculation, I haven’t because as I say, I couldn’t find any data for it and I’m not an expert. However, as you can see, more or less the same result and certainly not 44IU per hour like this fool has suggested.

This is like those episodes of The Apprentice where one team gets the maths completely wrong in manufacturing and ends up derailing the entire task lol. Unfortunately this woman and Dick Gill are causing real life consequences when expert witnesses and parents are being harassed by Letby's crotchsniffers as a result of their maths.

Also there's something so poetic about seeing Deeznutslol at the bottom of your workings

 

[gigilouxx]

LL's collection when raided. Look whose in the backgroundView attachment 2246656

Why are you in my bedroom?

 

[Tofino]

Can anyone tell me what is now happening in case? Is the jury now out with deliberations?

no not yet. Next week closing statements will start (prosecution first, then defence) and after that judge will also do some summing up of the evidence.

Judge said last week he’s expecting deliberations to start around 3rd July.

 

[abelleza]

She (like many others, statistician Richard Gill included) believes this idiot who claims to be a scientist and said that Hindmarsh incorrectly calculated the amount of insulin required to produce the steady state plasma concentration of 4656 pmol/L of insulin observed in baby F. He thinks she would have needed to put just over 10mL (1000 units of insulin) into each TPN bag to produce that (20 mL in total if she contaminated 2).
The expert witnesses say that it would have taken 1.8 units of insulin per hour to produce that concentration, so depending on how long the TPN was run for (let’s say 24 hr) she would have only needed to put just shy of 0.5 mL into the TPN (1.8 x 24 = 43.2 units, each mL of insulin contains 100 units, so 0.432 mL) if she contaminated 2 bags then she’d have only needed 1mL or slightly less.

The clown scientist has finally released the full calculation and it’s as I said it would be, completely wrong because they don’t understand how to convert between units. Also I have no idea where tf they got their data from either.

Spoiler: Correct calculation vs incorrect

View attachment 2246641
here is the correct calculation, apologies for the weird decimal points and messy hand writing (unfortunately I didn’t have time to make a 27 page report or a fancy flow diagram either)
View attachment 2246645
The reason why I’ve calculated 1.5 IU rather than the 1.8 hindmarsh got is because hindmarsh would have likely used pharmacokinetic data for neonates, where as I’ve used the data I can find online for insulin pharmacokinetics in adults. This data is the distribution volume and the half life, however these parameters vary in ‘special’ populations (e.g neonates, children, geriatric patients, those with renal insufficiency etc) and distribution volume in particular tends to be different in neonates. Hindmarsh would have accounted for this difference in his calculation, I haven’t because as I say, I couldn’t find any data for it and I’m not an expert. However, as you can see, more or less the same result and certainly not 44IU per hour like this fool has suggested.

You little beauty, love that you signed it deeznutslol as well

 

[mrs.darcy]

Well it did initially autocorrect to atomic uterus, hasn’t quite got the same ring as atomic kitten

This might be an age thing but my first thought reading this was Atomic Rooster.

 

[Daisydunn15]

This is going to blow up. I can’t tell you how angry I am listening to this teacher. This isn’t education it’s indoctrination.

Assumed this would be serial killer related but my husband overheard 'cisgender' and now he's back on his soap box talking about how fucked up the world is.. I mean I agree with him but I don't need to hear him again I avoid trans related content cos it's like living with Matt Walsh whenever he overhears it

 

[MmmB777]

Assumed this would be serial killer related but my husband overheard 'cisgender' and now he's back on his soap box talking about how fucked up the world is.. I mean I agree with him but I don't need to hear him again I avoid trans related content cos it's like living with Matt Walsh whenever he overhears it

Oh crap can someone report I don’t know how to do it ha. Oo he sounds great and you sound like how my husband feels

 

[Katkitkat]

This is going to blow up. I can’t tell you how angry I am listening to this teacher. This isn’t education it’s indoctrination.

You are so right! This is absolutely disgusting. I'm all for people being free to make their own decisions in life, (identify as a fence for all I care) but I really cannot stand when they try to force their beliefs upon others. This teacher needs sacking, she is not fit for the job.
Good on those pupils for having their own mind and speaking up.

 

[MmmB777]

You are so right! This is absolutely disgusting. I'm all for people being free to make their own decisions in life, (identify as a fence for all I care) but I really cannot stand when they try to force their beliefs upon others. This teacher needs sacking, she is not fit for the job.
Good on those pupils for having their own mind and speaking up.

I really didn’t mean to post it here it was meant for the Gender Discussion thread (lots of like minded people there ) I’ve asked to have it removed, sorry everyone. X

 

[od12839]

Literally was just thinking that I hope someone is able to debunk or elaborate on the calculations etc being put forward by the Reddit scientist, because as a lay-person I have no bleeping clue if they're actually onto something or if they're talking nonsense.

I did find their conclusion daft regardless, mind. They didn't prove insulin couldn't be in the bag whatsoever, they proved it could but you'd just need to use a lot. Which, okay, it'd be hard to steal and administer that amount without someone noticing. But they're also claiming that an infection ran rampant through the unit killing babies left and right without anyone noticing, so is the hospital completely oblivious or would they notice something amiss?

Even if their calculations were 100% accurate it's just odd to claim this 'proves definitively' insulin couldn't be in the bag. It literally doesn't. This is not a scientific conclusion.

 

[Deeznutslol]

Literally was just thinking that I hope someone is able to debunk or elaborate on the calculations etc being put forward by the Reddit scientist, because as a lay-person I have no bleeping clue if they're actually onto something or if they're talking nonsense.

I did find their conclusion daft regardless, mind. They didn't prove insulin couldn't be in the bag whatsoever, they proved it could but you'd just need to use a lot. Which, okay, it'd be hard to steal and administer that amount without someone noticing. But they're also claiming that an infection ran rampant through the unit killing babies left and right without anyone noticing, so is the hospital completely oblivious or would they notice something amiss?

Even if their calculations were 100% accurate it's just odd to claim this 'proves definitively' insulin couldn't be in the bag. It literally doesn't. This is not a scientific conclusion.

Their argument is that by their calculations 4 vials would have been required and if she’d used that much, it would’ve been noticed and she’d have been caught immediately.
I know what you mean, but I think the vast majority of people with half a brain know better than to trust an anonymous account on reddit claiming to be a scientist. If they were as qualified and well connected as they make out, they’d surely just reveal their identity? I just think anyone believing this guy needs to give their head a wobble and try to think a bit logically here tbh. Like really and truly, if a professor of endocrinology was making errors of this size when calculating doses of insulin, do you really think he would still have a career at this point? Or do you think he might’ve killed a few patients and have been struck off for his incompetence years ago? Do you not think he checked these calculations 10 times over and got several colleagues to also check them before bringing them before a court of law in one of potentially the biggest serial killer trials in the last 20 years? And do you honestly not think if this guy had fucked up so badly that he’d miscalculated the insulin required by such a massive amount, the defense team would be all over it like a rash getting the trial thrown out of court? I’m sure that anyone who doesn’t have their own personal agenda / vendetta against medical professionals will look at this reddit guy and just roll their eyes.
I know the facebook NG crowd are particularly loud, but I truly think they are well in the minority at this point.