Lucy Letby Case #39

[FastAndTheCurious7]

Oh crap can someone report I don’t know how to do it ha. Oo he sounds great and you sound like how my husband feels

Do we all have the same husband?

 

[stardust1]

I haven’t caught up yet sorry if posted but this event may be of some peoples interests on here

The Makings of a Murderer - Tyne Theatre & Opera House

Fri 21 Jul 2023 | 7:30pm

www.tynetheatreandoperahouse.uk

 

[helcob1977]

Her jaw and chin look totally normal in real life! In her old pictures it was only there sometimes, so I think it was just one of the faces she pulled.

IMO these two pictures are the most accurate. In this first one, it's the only one that has her nose, cheeks and face shape right and the correct level of aging. Though the lips aren't big enough and the eyes look generic and like she's wearing mascara.

View attachment 2246659

This one has the eyes right and the big lips to an extent, but the nose isn't big enough and too upturned:

View attachment 2246661


I'm sure I read somewhere that it's artistically difficult to draw women with strong features without making them look masculine. In most of the drawings I've seen of her, the artists have opted for downplaying her features (especially her nose) rather than making her look too masculine. Also most of the artists have gone over the top in depicting her physical aging, making her look mumsy and older than she really looks.

That bottom drawing looks so much like her Mum!

 

[Tishtushmush]

I was part of the chat in the early days but then just followed along. It has been so interesting to hear what you've all thought.

I listened today to a recent dateline podcast where the defence chose to submit no witnesses because they felt that the prosecution had not proven guilt (despite overwhelming circumstantial evidence proving he was guilty). It made me think about this case and whether that's how BM will explain his choice, that they did enough to give reasonable doubt during the prosecution evidence.

However what I suspect is that LL screwed up any chance of being able to put up any other "expert" witnesses because of her lies on the stand.

 

[AllieBee]

Their argument is that by their calculations 4 vials would have been required and if she’d used that much, it would’ve been noticed and she’d have been caught immediately.
I know what you mean, but I think the vast majority of people with half a brain know better than to trust an anonymous account on reddit claiming to be a scientist. If they were as qualified and well connected as they make out, they’d surely just reveal their identity? I just think anyone believing this guy needs to give their head a wobble and try to think a bit logically here tbh. Like really and truly, if a professor of endocrinology was making errors of this size when calculating doses of insulin, do you really think he would still have a career at this point? Or do you think he might’ve killed a few patients and have been struck off for his incompetence years ago? Do you not think he checked these calculations 10 times over and got several colleagues to also check them before bringing them before a court of law in one of potentially the biggest serial killer trials in the last 20 years? And do you honestly not think if this guy had fucked up so badly that he’d miscalculated the insulin required by such a massive amount, the defense team would be all over it like a rash getting the trial thrown out of court? I’m sure that anyone who doesn’t have their own personal agenda / vendetta against medical professionals will look at this reddit guy and just roll their eyes.
I know the facebook NG crowd are particularly loud, but I truly think they are well in the minority at this point.

Thanks for working it all out. The idea that any nurse could put 4 vials into a TPN bag for a teeny weeny baby and that not kill the baby within minutes is laughable. Its such a huge amount that surely it must be obvious to them that that is simply wrong? I think they've got so up themselves with their incorrect evidence it's completely blinded them to common sense!

 

[Angelic37]

I cannot stop thinking "why why why did she do these things", I really can't. She probably had a good upbringing with plenty of love and a lot of opportunities. Got herself a decent education, followed by a decent job in a very nice city. Bought her own very nice house at 25, and had an active social life. She was presentable in her looks. Where did the evil come from to want to destroy so many lives not just the babies but all the families too. I really cannot get my head round the reason that made her want to do these evil acts. She didn't gain anything from it. I bet she wishes she hadn't now. When I went court and saw her sat on that long bench on her own with a prison officer to the side and the legal people discussing matters (almost like she wasn't there) I thought I bet she wishes she hadn't done what she did now. But I still cannot understand what her motivation was in the first place ? Jealousy of some sort.

Hundred percent get you, but, you're thinking about the reasoning behind her actions from the perspective of someone without the desire and compulsion to harm and kill babies. It might be easier to imagine trying to stop yourself from doing something that you enjoy very much to the point of compulsion, smoking for example. So, in effect, she's surrounded by temptation and is unable to resist. (I hope this doesn't sound like I'm excusing her, I'm not, I'm trying to make sense of it).

However, someone who had a smoking compulsion and was surrounded by cigarettes, and WANTED to not give in to the compulsion, would remove themselves from that location. She chose to stay. She chose to fulfil her cravings. And it's that which makes her evil.

(Long time lurker on this thread, I've a psychology degree and PGCE and taught A Level psychology, there's so much I don't know though and am certainly no expert. I guess I'm trying to make some sort of sense of it all. Back to lurking, hope this post doesn't offend anyone).

 

[#notanadad]

I was part of the chat in the early days but then just followed along. It has been so interesting to hear what you've all thought.

I listened today to a recent dateline podcast where the defence chose to submit no witnesses because they felt that the prosecution had not proven guilt (despite overwhelming circumstantial evidence proving he was guilty). It made me think about this case and whether that's how BM will explain his choice, that they did enough to give reasonable doubt during the prosecution evidence.

However what I suspect is that LL screwed up any chance of being able to put up any other "expert" witnesses because of her lies on the stand.

I started listening to the podcasts from the start a few days ago. In the initial few thst I’ve listened to (think I’m up to baby G) they kept saying “we expect the defence expert witnesses to say otherwise” (along those lines) which makes me think surely they did have some lined up. I wonder if they had to pull the plug on them seeing as LL pretty much agreed with BNE on EVERYTHING but denied it was her. She said she agreed the insulin babies were poisoned, so what is the point of a defence expert witness standing there to dispute the prosecutions witness? There is none. She sealed her own fate THANK GOD

 

[DellaC]

Hundred percent get you, but, you're thinking about the reasoning behind her actions from the perspective of someone without the desire and compulsion to harm and kill babies. It might be easier to imagine trying to stop yourself from doing something that you enjoy very much to the point of compulsion, smoking for example. So, in effect, she's surrounded by temptation and is unable to resist. (I hope this doesn't sound like I'm excusing her, I'm not, I'm trying to make sense of it).

However, someone who had a smoking compulsion and was surrounded by cigarettes, and WANTED to not give in to the compulsion, would remove themselves from that location. She chose to stay. She chose to fulfil her cravings. And it's that which makes her evil.

(Long time lurker on this thread, I've a psychology degree and PGCE and taught A Level psychology, there's so much I don't know though and am certainly no expert. I guess I'm trying to make some sort of sense of it all. Back to lurking, hope this post doesn't offend anyone).

Oh don't lurk darling.

A lot of these witches could absolutely do with your expertise

 

[AllieBee]

Hundred percent get you, but, you're thinking about the reasoning behind her actions from the perspective of someone without the desire and compulsion to harm and kill babies. It might be easier to imagine trying to stop yourself from doing something that you enjoy very much to the point of compulsion, smoking for example. So, in effect, she's surrounded by temptation and is unable to resist. (I hope this doesn't sound like I'm excusing her, I'm not, I'm trying to make sense of it).

However, someone who had a smoking compulsion and was surrounded by cigarettes, and WANTED to not give in to the compulsion, would remove themselves from that location. She chose to stay. She chose to fulfil her cravings. And it's that which makes her evil.

(Long time lurker on this thread, I've a psychology degree and PGCE and taught A Level psychology, there's so much I don't know though and am certainly no expert. I guess I'm trying to make some sort of sense of it all. Back to lurking, hope this post doesn't offend anyone).

Not offensive in any way. I think it's very difficult for a normal mind to understand the way an evil mind works. I do wonder though if at some level she recognised what she did as evil and hated herself for it, hence the post it note, or whether she got such a thrill and a buzz from it that she didn't have any remorse or feel guilt at all.

 

[sebanna]

I was part of the chat in the early days but then just followed along. It has been so interesting to hear what you've all thought.

I listened today to a recent dateline podcast where the defence chose to submit no witnesses because they felt that the prosecution had not proven guilt (despite overwhelming circumstantial evidence proving he was guilty). It made me think about this case and whether that's how BM will explain his choice, that they did enough to give reasonable doubt during the prosecution evidence.

However what I suspect is that LL screwed up any chance of being able to put up any other "expert" witnesses because of her lies on the stand.

I think if BM could have found a medical expert to say that the babies were likely not deliberately harmed and didn't die of air embolism then that would have really helped the defence's case. Certain parts of the defences opening statements suggests there would be defence expert witnesses. I'm wondering if he had some lined up but then they pulled out and the plumber was brought on as a late addition.

 

[Deeznutslol]

Thanks for working it all out. The idea that any nurse could put 4 vials into a TPN bag for a teeny weeny baby and that not kill the baby within minutes is laughable. Its such a huge amount that surely it must be obvious to them that that is simply wrong? I think they've got so up themselves with their incorrect evidence it's completely blinded them to common sense!

That’s another thing, in my experience of handling TPN bags, there wouldn’t have even been enough space to fit an extra 20ml of anything in there anyway. Guess it depends though.
Yeah these types usually are lol. I actually used to argue with people like this who spread nonsense medical misinformation (eg people who scaremonger about the MMR vaccine causing autism etc) but I never bother anymore. They’re so arrogant and convinced of their own intelligence that they’d just think I was an idiot and completely disregard whatever I said to them anyway.

Hundred percent get you, but, you're thinking about the reasoning behind her actions from the perspective of someone without the desire and compulsion to harm and kill babies. It might be easier to imagine trying to stop yourself from doing something that you enjoy very much to the point of compulsion, smoking for example. So, in effect, she's surrounded by temptation and is unable to resist. (I hope this doesn't sound like I'm excusing her, I'm not, I'm trying to make sense of it).

This is such an interesting theory of why she did it, absolutely horrifying if true though

 

[Angelic37]

Oh don't lurk darling.

A lot of these witches could absolutely do with your expertise

Why thank you. Without doubt this is the best thread on Tattle, well, on anything, anywhere, ever. "You've got the wrong fella Della" will never not make me cry with laughter. You're all amazing

 

[Cack_Conroe]

Hundred percent get you, but, you're thinking about the reasoning behind her actions from the perspective of someone without the desire and compulsion to harm and kill babies. It might be easier to imagine trying to stop yourself from doing something that you enjoy very much to the point of compulsion, smoking for example. So, in effect, she's surrounded by temptation and is unable to resist. (I hope this doesn't sound like I'm excusing her, I'm not, I'm trying to make sense of it).

However, someone who had a smoking compulsion and was surrounded by cigarettes, and WANTED to not give in to the compulsion, would remove themselves from that location. She chose to stay. She chose to fulfil her cravings. And it's that which makes her evil.

(Long time lurker on this thread, I've a psychology degree and PGCE and taught A Level psychology, there's so much I don't know though and am certainly no expert. I guess I'm trying to make some sort of sense of it all. Back to lurking, hope this post doesn't offend anyone).

There was a female psychopath and sadist on Reddit (LadyIris) who had compulsive, obsessive fantasies about violently torturing people to death, and had had these urges from a very young age. Part of the enjoyment was knowing how wrong it was and how much their families would hurt. She unfortunately took this out on animals sometimes, which wasn't sufficiently satisfying for her. She had a very successful life, which she said she didn't want to lose, but could barely control herself, and fantasised about murder non-stop, along with wanting to talk about it and share other people's fantasies and torture methods. Talking about it seemed to be like a kind of erotica for her. It was totally obsessive and out of control. She also said she was asexual and that these fantasies where the only things that felt orgasmic.

I have compared her a lot to Lucifer recently, imagine if LadyIris preferred primarily psychological torture (aimed at parents) over physical violence, and preferred babies to adults. Would she have devoted her life to becoming a neonatal nurse?

 

[nichew]

Assumed this would be serial killer related but my husband overheard 'cisgender' and now he's back on his soap box talking about how fucked up the world is.. I mean I agree with him but I don't need to hear him again I avoid trans related content cos it's like living with Matt Walsh whenever he overhears it

They can duck off with that cisgender tit

 

[SnoopySnooper86]

Another thing I’m over “cis”

 

[tay65]

Hundred percent get you, but, you're thinking about the reasoning behind her actions from the perspective of someone without the desire and compulsion to harm and kill babies. It might be easier to imagine trying to stop yourself from doing something that you enjoy very much to the point of compulsion, smoking for example. So, in effect, she's surrounded by temptation and is unable to resist. (I hope this doesn't sound like I'm excusing her, I'm not, I'm trying to make sense of it).

However, someone who had a smoking compulsion and was surrounded by cigarettes, and WANTED to not give in to the compulsion, would remove themselves from that location. She chose to stay. She chose to fulfil her cravings. And it's that which makes her evil.

(Long time lurker on this thread, I've a psychology degree and PGCE and taught A Level psychology, there's so much I don't know though and am certainly no expert. I guess I'm trying to make some sort of sense of it all. Back to lurking, hope this post doesn't offend anyone).

You are absolutely right, I suppose it's just hard for normal logical thinking people to understand why people can have such evil compulsions and in this event as you have pointed out she could have removed herself from the temptation. Which makes me wonder did she pursue this career to fulfill her compulsions or did she only have the compulsions when her career began i.e.during training when she kept the first handover note in the keepsake box. I suppose we'll never fully know unless she reveals the real truth. She did the module around March to be able to look after the room 1 babies and I wonder if her only motivation for doing the module was to have access to them to be able to harm them rather than for career advancement.
---

You are absolutely right, I suppose it's just hard for normal logical thinking people to understand why people can have such evil compulsions and in this event as you have pointed out she could have removed herself from the temptation. Which makes me wonder did she pursue this career to fulfill her compulsions or did she only have the compulsions when her career began i.e.during training when she kept the first handover note in the keepsake box. I suppose we'll never fully know unless she reveals the real truth. She did the module around March to be able to look after the room 1 babies and I wonder if her only motivation for doing the module was to have access to them to be able to harm them rather than for career advancement.

Also if she did have a perfectly normal upbringing with loving parents what makes her want to do these things. Is it a kind of genetic thing which she is born with. Could her parents have done anything different where she wouldn't have had these desires. She talks of family pets and her cats. Did she love these animals and not harm them at all and was therefore capable of loving animals dependant on her. It's all very mind boggling but so sad for the babies and families who had the misfortune to come into her life. I've wondered about no name and what she really thought about him. Could she have been using him when she was meeting up with him to try to find out what was happening in her absence regarding the hospital's/police investigations or did she really have a sexual relationship with him and think a lot about him. She was upset when he came to court so perhaps she did have feelings for him.

 

[Haveyouanywool]

Respectfully, there is no hard evidence (in a legal sense) that SHE did it. That is what is considered hard evidence. If you get a case as a prosecutor with hard evidence, it's considered an easy win. This will not have been an easy win. No CCTV, no DNA etc. There are tiers of evidence.

None of those things prove SHE did it. Just that potentially (with the insulin at least) someone did it.

I’ve no legal knowledge at all so might be talking shite, but is it better to say categories, and not tiers, of evidence?
Were Dr Jayram and baby E’s mum’s evidence not direct?

 

[Tishtushmush]

You are absolutely right, I suppose it's just hard for normal logical thinking people to understand why people can have such evil compulsions and in this event as you have pointed out she could have removed herself from the temptation. Which makes me wonder did she pursue this career to fulfill her compulsions or did she only have the compulsions when her career began i.e.during training when she kept the first handover note in the keepsake box. I suppose we'll never fully know unless she reveals the real truth. She did the module around March to be able to look after the room 1 babies and I wonder if her only motivation for doing the module was to have access to them to be able to harm them rather than for career advancement.
---

Also if she did have a perfectly normal upbringing with loving parents what makes her want to do these things. Is it a kind of genetic thing which she is born with. Could her parents have done anything different where she wouldn't have had these desires. She talks of family pets and her cats. Did she love these animals and not harm them at all and was therefore capable of loving animals dependant on her. It's all very mind boggling but so sad for the babies and families who had the misfortune to come into her life. I've wondered about no name and what she really thought about him. Could she have been using him when she was meeting up with him to try to find out what was happening in her absence regarding the hospital's/police investigations or did she really have a sexual relationship with him and think a lot about him. She was upset when he came to court so perhaps she did have feelings for him.

It's human nature to try to understand the motive but we'll likely never know. One of my cousins grew up in Hereford and is the same age as her. We only see each other at Christmas, so it would be a bit weird if I contacted her to ask if she went to school with LL....but I've been very tempted

I found her home disturbing (along with all of you) but because it really reminded me of a friend's house. She was molly coddled growing up because of some health issues and her decor almost seems stuck in quite a childlike version of home decor (we just have very different tastes!), with lots of quotes, cuddly toys and furniture that's what you might expect in a teenagers room. However she is a fully functioning, stable, non murderous adult. It made me wonder whether Lucy was equally mollycoddled and made the centre of everything and that unfortunately mixed with a narcissistic personality (or whatever she has) has led us to where we are now. However it's not really fair on her parents to lay blame with them when I don't have a clue. She might have had a terrible, indulged or balanced childhood- it was still her who made the choices.

 

[Haveyouanywool]

Plus I’d say LL’s evidence about the insulin poisonings and the pj ‘trauma, which was eventually dragged out of her is also direct. Not to mention the yet as unseen pj video, it will be lovely to see her being dragged out in her leisure suit.

 

[DellaC]

Happy Fathers Day to any Dad's on the thread. Have a lovely day