Lucy Letby Case #39

[terfette]

Spoiler: Merail

This happened to me my first 3 labours! All 3 times I knew I was ready to push just to be told “you’re only a few centimetres, it’ll be ages yet” The second time it was so fast and large baby (9lb11) I ended up with atonic uterus. Would definitely not recommend!

Same

Spoiler: more me rail

My first was text book, apart from being 6 weeks early (she didn’t need special care either) My second who I had at LWs I had contractions on and off but when I actually went into Labour, I was 3/4cm for 3 hours, and then with 20 minutes went fully dilated and didn’t even try to push, he was born with 6 minutes of involuntary pushing starting, with my third baby, I had a shouting argument with the midwife, because she wanted to put me on that drip, and I said no wait, because of how fast I suddenly dilated with my second, if that happens while you’ve got that drip in, it can cause problems. I was 4/5cm for nearly 8 hours, baby back to back and really quite painful. I demanded a consultant who came in and agreed I was being reasonable (I wasn’t refusing, I was saying wait). Anyway, it got to about 7 hours, and I said I’ll have the drip as no progression. But I wanted an epidural in first. So an anesthetist came and did that, consultant checked me, still 4/5cm, set the drip up, and said “can we examine you again just before I turn it on” and I said yeah and he went “oh. Well we won’t be starting that drip as you’re fully dilated now” I was like I told you this was why I wanted to wait I wasn’t being awkward.
I agree with you though, even without the atonic uterus, (and my babies were tiny too, first two 4lb9 each and third 6lb11) even though my second was the shortest and easiest of mine, I didn’t like it. If I had to do any of mine again, it wouldn’t be the second. I felt really shook up as it happened too fast, within 20 minutes I’d gone from sat with mild contractions messaging my mate on blackberry messenger, to my baby being born and taken away to neonatal. Whereas with my first and third, I felt like I understood what was happening, and could process it in my mind a lot better.

 

[pissedandsad]

Im on the group but it’s muted because it can be frustrating at times.

When they initally found out the defence had no other witnesses other than the plumber, didn’t they say it was because BM did such a good job and the pros was so weak he didn’t need to call any.

Then it was because BM was crap. Now Lucy didn’t want any because she’s fed up.

They’ve got their reasons for protesting her innocence and I don’t think it has anything to do with the evidence presented. They’ve managed to twist every single piece of evidence to prove her innocence and further whatever their twisted motives are. They don’t have the capacity or will to be objective, not once have any of them said ‘ouch, actually that doesn’t sound good, she shouldn’t have said/done that etc’…

To do that for 8 months must be exhausting but they clearly have alterior motives and it’s not for getting justice for those poor babies, I don’t even think it’s about their warped idea of getting justice for ‘sCaPeGoAt’ Letby either.

I think people like being difficult and obstructive for the sake of it and often just for attention.
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Thanks for your insight. I’ve never done jury duty but would love to be called!

True contrarians wind me up - and that is infuriating to me. Mainly family - being from Dysfunction Junction. These people are real but they live on a whole other level.

 

[What's your point]

Phew finally caught up .

Pleased with judges direction and confident now that she will be found guilty on all charges.

Thinking about motive I just think she is a twisted nasty witch and took her frustrations with her life out on those that couldn't defend themselves whilst coming across as 'lovely Lucy'. I hate to say this but I can see her simmering with rage over the slightest incident in her life and so absorbed with jealousy about the other nurses on the unit that she did this for nothing other than she wanted to take her anger out on someone, then as time went on she loved the thrill of it and the attention it got her from limp bollocks Dr A.

 

[DellaC]

Spoiler: Merail

This happened to me my first 3 labours! All 3 times I knew I was ready to push just to be told “you’re only a few centimetres, it’ll be ages yet” The second time it was so fast and large baby (9lb11) I ended up with atonic uterus. Would definitely not recommend!

That sounds like a pop group.

And now welcome to the stage....Atonic Uterus singing their new hit Postpartum Haemorrhage

 

[gimmethattea]

I can tell you that this is the bane of most medical professionals lives.

The delusion these people have…

I feel sorry for any HCP who has not remained anonymous in this trial, be ause I can imagine that wackos like this will be contacting them personally when she is found guilty.
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I will say Liverpool womens is the only neonatal I h e direct experience of. My son was admitted there when he was born. My daughters cousin was on COCH neonatal for a couple of days and no complaints there. But anyway. I never saw half the tit letby was doing at LWs. I’ve commented before about it. But specifically the texting. I never saw a neonatal nurse there using a phone except for taking pics of the babies (once they’d finished touching said baby) which were uploaded directly to the parents,, phone put away, hands washed before moving on to their next task. I cannot even imagine seeing a neonatal nurse texting in a clinical area, nevermind to the extent letby was.

Same for my local Neonatal Ward. I didn't once see a member of staff on their phone and I honestly doubt they would have had time for that.

 

[Treesy19]

The cigarette thing - I know it’s total trivia but surely what happened was the doctor has nipped off for a smoke and her bleep went off so she legged it back in and as it was an emergency she didn’t think to stop and wash her hands, not that she broke off CPR for a quick gasper?

Exactly how I think was the reality. It was my immediate thought as I read that reporting. Let’s hope the jury were the same. Letby then thinking ooooh you’ve not washed your hands I’m gonna remember this if I’m asked…surely an emergency situ you just get straight in there in fast active mode to save a life and don’t have time for one of those medical thorough hand washings. Oh can you stop crashing for a few mins I need to wash between each finger. Oh and yet again a baby crashes when someone has nipped out.
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Wait, what, are some of the poor babies in that cemetery behind her house? I remember here people saying about there being one behind her house but “I don’t recall” () seeing about some of the babies in question being there? If true I feel even more sicker.

genuinely cannot wait to hear what is revealed after the verdict. (I do believe it will be G for all so this is why I’m eager to hear what comes out). Maybe something creepy like her spare room really was kitted out with lifelike doll babies. Or she had a collection of baby dolls. Some other tit was found at her house but both sides have agreed not to disclose it. Now that would send me over the edge even more

 

[Lynn’ssnazzycardigan]

That sounds like a pop group.

And now welcome to the stage....Atonic Uterus singing their new hit Postpartum Haemorrhage

Well it did initially autocorrect to atomic uterus, hasn’t quite got the same ring as atomic kitten

 

[Bnbn. Th]

I feel like I need to take time off work until this is over cause it takes a lot of catching up when you've been on shift wow. Anyways, I do feel confident with those directions that she could be found guilty on all charges. Life for Letby yay!

 

[MmmB777]

My expert witness family member is finally free from their own hellish trial (not in comparison to this one but over run by a few months and been very disruptive to life in general) and so I read the judges direction to them last night. Their opinion is that it sounds like the judge is being VERY helpful.

@dual2099 yes the cemetery thing was spotted a while ago. Don’t believe it can be coincidence at all. As for the spare room owls- definitely there beforehand but still, would take seconds to peel them off as it’s decals. There were two massive quotes in decals in my house and one of the first things I did was rip them down. Think one might even have been live laugh love other one was something about dancing in the rain . Should have saved them for Letby’s cell.

 

[FastAndTheCurious7]

Exactly how I think was the reality. It was my immediate thought as I read that reporting. Let’s hope the jury were the same. Letby then thinking ooooh you’ve not washed your hands I’m gonna remember this if I’m asked…surely an emergency situ you just get straight in there in fast active mode to save a life and don’t have time for one of those medical thorough hand washings. Oh can you stop crashing for a few mins I need to wash between each finger. Oh and yet again a baby crashes when someone has nipped out.
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Wait, what, are some of the poor babies in that cemetery behind her house? I remember here people saying about there being one behind her house but “I don’t recall” () seeing about some of the babies in question being there? If true I feel even more sicker.

genuinely cannot wait to hear what is revealed after the verdict. (I do believe it will be G for all so this is why I’m eager to hear what comes out). Maybe something creepy like her spare room really was kitted out with lifelike doll babies. Or she had a collection of baby dolls. Some other tit was found at her house but both sides have agreed not to disclose it. Now that would send me over the edge even more

She can recall the Dr not washing her hands but can’t recall 90% if the things she’s asked by BNE.

There is no tangible proof that Dr didn’t wash their hands

 

[cesarea-tinajero]

I find the nursery thing weird too. I moved house during covid lockdown because I needed a home office, and the spare bedroom had clearly been a nursery beforehand, and the first thing I did was buy a bucket of white paint and get rid of all the pink and yellow and it was a rental property! Why would you keep it?!

 

[PositivelyVonnegutesque]

Soooo anyone who was on the fence, what helped you make a decision?
For me it was her general responses on the stand during cross which seemed sus as duck, trying to implicate others and the pristine handover sheet in a memory box.
I mean, I would have landed at guilty anyway after the lack of defence. I always said I would go by what the experts were saying, and although the prosecution experts had some compelling evidence, I was holding out to see whether the defence had their own experts to dispute their evidence which they obviously didn't, so either way it would have been G by this point.

I can't say I was ever on the fence as I felt she probably was guilty, but I wanted to wait until her cross examination to see what she said. By the first day I was absolutely convinced she was guilty. I completely agree with you about her responses on the stand. Aloof, "I can't answer that", "I don't recall" answers were terrible. Her version of events also means it is her word against that of parents, doctors and other nurses. BNE showed the jury she is an untrustworthy witness who has definitely lied on the stand.

The thing had sealed it all up for me was the draft sympathy note to all 3 triplets and her treatment of baby I's mother when she came down to bring her milk at 9pm and found LL sitting at the desk rather than tending to a baby who was screaming in a completely unnatural way, and her dismissal of the mum out of the room. Not only that but it knocked me sick - it is just horrific.

 

[dual2099]

My expert witness family member is finally free from their own hellish trial (not in comparison to this one but over run by a few months and been very disruptive to life in general) and so I read the judges direction to them last night. Their opinion is that it sounds like the judge is being VERY helpful.

@dual2099 yes the cemetery thing was spotted a while ago. Don’t believe it can be coincidence at all. As for the spare room owls- definitely there beforehand but still, would take seconds to peel them off as it’s decals. There were two massive quotes in decals in my house and one of the first things I did was rip them down. Think one might even have been live laugh love other one was something about dancing in the rain . Should have saved them for Letby’s cell.

Totally.

But it was pointed out that the owl decorations were the same as the nursery in the hospital. Can that really be a coincidence? It was pointed out that maybe she bought the house from somebody that she knew. And was in the house 2 years, why did she not take that down. She knew it had the owl decor when bought and directly looks over the baby garden. It’s beyond odd if she is guilty, that won’t be a coincidence.

And why did she become in the possession of a house at the age of 26? All by herself?
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I find the nursery thing weird too. I moved house during covid lockdown because I needed a home office, and the spare bedroom had clearly been a nursery beforehand, and the first thing I did was buy a bucket of white paint and get rid of all the pink and yellow and it was a rental property! Why would you keep it?!

Exactly, now somebody has pointed it out I can’t not see it now.

She could have taken it down, it was the same decor as in the nursery at the hospital. That cannot be a coincidence.

People mentioned the graveyard stuff before and I honestly thought nothing of it. Being near a graveyard doesn’t mean a lot. But the baby garden can be seen, and I’m betting some of those poor babies ended up in that memorial garden.

That is not a coincidence.

 

[MmmB777]

Totally.

But it was pointed out that the owl decorations were the same as the nursery in the hospital. Can that really be a coincidence? It was pointed out that maybe she bought the house from somebody that she knew. And was in the house 2 years, why did she not take that down. She knew it had the owl decor when bought and directly looks over the baby garden. It’s beyond odd if she is guilty, that won’t be a coincidence.

And why did she become in the possession of a house at the age of 26? All by herself?
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Exactly, now somebody has pointed it out I can’t not see it now.

She could have taken it down, it was the same decor as in the nursery at the hospital. That cannot be a coincidence.

People mentioned the graveyard stuff before and I honestly thought nothing of it. Being near a graveyard doesn’t mean a lot. But the baby garden can be seen, and I’m betting some of those poor babies ended up in that memorial garden.

That is not a coincidence.

I actually believe a secondary gain for her would have been being extra in demand due to causing babies to be more ill and working a lot more. No doubt it’s in part how she could afford the house but who knows, could have inherited some money or her folks had saved for her if they led a modest lifestyle
A financial incentive sounds insane but has happened before with these types of crimes! Shipman certainly enjoyed death and the power from killing people but had a secondary financial gain too in the end and tried to fake money being left to him (which was ultimately his undoing). The male nurse I shared the other day that ended up with the death sentence, although he pleaded not guilty, he was recorded from prison on a call with his now ex wife confessing and he said that he wanted to make people ill in order to work overtime. Again, I don’t believe that really is 100% of why he did it but it is a secondary gain. Nothing strange as folk

 

[Lynn’ssnazzycardigan]

I have a young colleague who is very hardworking and ambitious, did lots of overtime, got a junior sister post very young and bought her first house around same age as Letby so it is doable. She is night and day to LL though, popular team player who respects colleagues experience, did every overtime going but when not at work is her own person with lots of non-work friends. Also has a fiancé outside the profession so not sniffing around married doctors.
I think it’s everything we are assuming about that house- the nursery decor, the proximity to the graveyard, and that’s why the photos of the house and all were shown in court and made a big deal of in the press. They’re not allowed to tell us it’s that but we can draw our own conclusions. There’s so much that will come out after the trial…

 

[Okgolightly]

My expert witness family member is finally free from their own hellish trial (not in comparison to this one but over run by a few months and been very disruptive to life in general) and so I read the judges direction to them last night. Their opinion is that it sounds like the judge is being VERY helpful.

@dual2099 yes the cemetery thing was spotted a while ago. Don’t believe it can be coincidence at all. As for the spare room owls- definitely there beforehand but still, would take seconds to peel them off as it’s decals. There were two massive quotes in decals in my house and one of the first things I did was rip them down. Think one might even have been live laugh love other one was something about dancing in the rain . Should have saved them for Letby’s cell.

My MIL’s house is filled with the decal quotes. Many a times I’ve sat there and worked out it would just take me 5 mins to rip them all off the wall and never again have a cup of tea whilst looking at ‘when it rains look for rainbows, when it’s dark look for stars’

 

[LilyRose1234]

I can’t believe you can literally study your backside off for years and work like crazy to become a doctor or barrister yet some dole monkey off Facebook can tell you in 12 seconds how tit you are at your job, insanity

Next time I spend hours researching some niche area of law to give my client the best advice possible, and they respond “ok well I’ve googled it/spoken to my neighbour and we don’t think that’s right” I’m going to call them a dole monkey
I can’t speak for doctors (and I’m a solicitor not a barrister to be fair but it’s still 6 years of education and training) but it happens all the time and it absolutely infuriates me

 

[gigilouxx]

I’m pretty sure that thing in her spare room is a wall sticker anyway so she could’ve took it off in literally seconds? Just weird as

 

[coffeeandwine]

I have a young colleague who is very hardworking and ambitious, did lots of overtime, got a junior sister post very young and bought her first house around same age as Letby so it is doable. She is night and day to LL though, popular team player who respects colleagues experience, did every overtime going but when not at work is her own person with lots of non-work friends. Also has a fiancé outside the profession so not sniffing around married doctors.
I think it’s everything we are assuming about that house- the nursery decor, the proximity to the graveyard, and that’s why the photos of the house and all were shown in court and made a big deal of in the press. They’re not allowed to tell us it’s that but we can draw our own conclusions. There’s so much that will come out after the trial…

LL also seems like she has pretty supportive parents as well so I can imagine if they were in a position to, they would probably have helped her financially to buy her house.

I agree I think so much us going to come out about her, just as it did for Harold Shipman and Beverly Allitt. Maybe it won't go as far as Shipman since she was so much younger but this unfortunately seems like just the tip of the iceberg.

 

[FastAndTheCurious7]

My MIL’s house is filled with the decal quotes. Many a times I’ve sat there and worked out it would just take me 5 mins to rip them all off the wall and never again have a cup of tea whilst looking at ‘when it rains look for rainbows, when it’s dark look for stars’

Please tell me there is one about not waiting for the storm to pass but learning to dance in the rain