Lucy Letby Case #30

[amsmall]

Yep it’s literally the whole hospital against poor LL. Would love for Tof’s question earlier to have been answered but no takers so far. It was the one where any people that believed LL was NG, or people still on the fence, do they think LL taking the stand has done her any favours or has it hurt her in their opinion
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I really hope we have at least one tattler able to attend court one of the days for this
@Tofino @Takemetoyourbuffet and @rararala im looking at you fellas

@MmmB777 are you planning on trying to go and watch at all? If I wasn’t so far away I defs would have made the trip

It would definitely be interesting to see their views.
I had a horrible gut feeling when I saw her face and the charges in the media and thought - she's guilty.
I would love to attend court but I'd have to take my goof ball GSD who would wanna take her face off anyway because he can smell evil

 

[gmf21]

I have changed my view from guilty vote to guilty for some. I honestly do not believe she will be convicted for every baby. Interesting that swipe data from two of the babies indicates she was not there at the time of the suspected crime.

The insulin poisoning remains the most objective evidence for me. Seems like they have skimmed over this recently.

In reference to taking photos of cards, I need to be honest and say that I do not see this as strong evidence. I always take photos of cards but do cover the patients names. Having only ever sent two cards to patients in my whole career but received many thank you cards.

Finally, a red flag for me is that there has not yet been any evidence brought forward regarding any clinical supervision discussions. Clinical supervision is paramount for good practice and improving patient care, as well as self-development. A safety net for every clinician to learn from their mistakes, be guided on improving care and to build their own confidence and skills. I could go back at least 5 years and pull up monthly supervision discussions regarding patients. I won’t remember all of the incidents but these logs would help remind me. Wonder if supervision will at all be mentioned

20 + years, five different trusts, Never had any clinical supervision, or an appraisal, apart from one job where it was caseloads so we had supervision booked in quarterly. I reckon a lot of NHS trusts will have to look at this now, long overdue.

 

[Motherofpugs]

I’d love to attend court for the cross examination but I’m all the way daaan saaaaf and I don’t think they’d let me bring a 6 month old to court Hoping some roving Tattlers can make it though

 

[Emjaylu]

I was under the impression that they had to prove she DID to it rather than her team proving she didn’t do it?

I’m still massively on the fence!

 

[gigilouxx]

Her defence has done the opposite for me. She’s a liar, she’s got more front than Blackpool, everyone’s a liar, everyone’s useless, she’s mentioning how she’s the only one with the experience and the training in the hope to plant doubt that it could’ve been one of the many nurses she’s named as being less experienced, or the poor band 4 nurses who are so inept and incompetent that they had to ring nurse of the year Lucy for help. She’s a lying evil piece of work and I can only hope the jury see through her nonsense

 

[dual2099]

What do people think of the card situation though, I was a bit on the fence with this, I have taken photos of cards, given to me. Basically so I don't have to store them. I haven't taken any that I've sent... I wonder why she does this? The card in itself is an odd one to send in this situation, but I guess that doesn't make somebody a murderer. OK, I'm still very much edging towards guilty, and even more so she's taken the stand. But there are some bits of evidence I do find baffling... The photo she took of the card for a friend, could this be linked to a, specific date? Maybe another motive for keeping it. In terms of evidence in what she had that she shouldn't have had, the most is the handover sheets and blood gas. I don't know, I'm just thinking out loud..

 

[#notanadad]

What do people think of the card situation though, I was a bit on the fence with this, I have taken photos of cards, given to me. Basically so I don't have to store them. I haven't taken any that I've sent... I wonder why she does this? The card in itself is an odd one to send in this situation, but I guess that doesn't make somebody a murderer. OK, I'm still very much edging towards guilty, and even more so she's taken the stand. But there are some bits of evidence I do find baffling... The photo she took of the card for a friend, could this be linked to a, specific date? Maybe another motive for keeping it. In terms of evidence in what she had that she shouldn't have had, the most is the handover sheets and blood gas. I don't know, I'm just thinking out loud..

The only time I ever take a photo of something like that is if it’s an invite (e.g. a kids party) or an appointment. Basically when I want to make sure I don’t forget the information that is on there …

 

[gigilouxx]

I think she’s done it to show people, see if she can get some more affirmation that she’s such a lovely sweet caring nurse

 

[Milktray]

What do people think of the card situation though, I was a bit on the fence with this, I have taken photos of cards, given to me. Basically so I don't have to store them. I haven't taken any that I've sent... I wonder why she does this? The card in itself is an odd one to send in this situation, but I guess that doesn't make somebody a murderer. OK, I'm still very much edging towards guilty, and even more so she's taken the stand. But there are some bits of evidence I do find baffling... The photo she took of the card for a friend, could this be linked to a, specific date? Maybe another motive for keeping it. In terms of evidence in what she had that she shouldn't have had, the most is the handover sheets and blood gas. I don't know, I'm just thinking out loud..

Its not (for me) the fact she took a picture of it. Its the fact that she couldn't explain her reasons.

A simple, 'I took a photo so I could re-use the message' would have been almost acceptable.

Saying that 'its normal behaviour' to her, doesn't provide a solid enough answer or defence.

 

[OldBlondie]

Her defence has done the opposite for me. She’s a liar, she’s got more front than Blackpool, everyone’s a liar, everyone’s useless, she’s mentioning how she’s the only one with the experience and the training in the hope to plant doubt that it could’ve been one of the many nurses she’s named as being less experienced, or the poor band 4 nurses who are so inept and incompetent that they had to ring nurse of the year Lucy for help. She’s a lying evil piece of work and I can only hope the jury see through her nonsense

I think on just one of the reasons alone I’m so confident that she’ll be found guilty on ALL charges, is that she’s made such a mess on the stand with her OWN defence barrister, that she’s going to be brought down big time by NJ. I hope he does go for the reeling her in and making her think he’s believing her, then suddenly pull the rug from under her and bam bam bam he’s blown her absolute bs clean out of the water. So glad to be off all day tomorrow and fri so I don’t miss any of it. I’m guessing their will be live reporting everywhere tomorrow, it’s gone from having none/one to so many you can’t follow along on all of them.

I’m also pretty sure at the beginning the jury were told that they could look at this case as a whole, so if they find her guilty on the stronger charges they can also find her guilty on the weaker ones. Personally I don’t think the weaker ones are even weaker particularly, but I do see why some don’t feel they’re as strong. I’m honestly so confident she’ll be found guilty on all 22. I just don’t see how she can come back from being so obviously lying and blaming every other person, even if BM may call first class experts/testimonies as witnesses, but ofc we will have to wait and see

 

[Ohnoshebettadont]

What do people think of the card situation though, I was a bit on the fence with this, I have taken photos of cards, given to me. Basically so I don't have to store them. I haven't taken any that I've sent... I wonder why she does this?

Just been discussing this IRL with a friend and we both agree:
taking a pic of a card you received- fairly normal behaviour.
taking a pic of a card you Sent someone- bit weird but ok maybe if was a heartfelt poem or something
taking a pic of a card you sent someone about their dead child who you know in a professional capacity-
Can anyone think of a reason you would do this, other than to prove or convince others you are a ‘good person’
Can’t get past this part

 

[pencilpen]

Taking a photo of a card you've sent to someone else suggests you're sending it for your own reasons and not for that person. Sure its just my thoughts and not saying I think that's what she was thinking, but it is very strange.

 

[OldBlondie]

What do people think of the card situation though, I was a bit on the fence with this, I have taken photos of cards, given to me. Basically so I don't have to store them. I haven't taken any that I've sent... I wonder why she does this? The card in itself is an odd one to send in this situation, but I guess that doesn't make somebody a murderer. OK, I'm still very much edging towards guilty, and even more so she's taken the stand. But there are some bits of evidence I do find baffling... The photo she took of the card for a friend, could this be linked to a, specific date? Maybe another motive for keeping it. In terms of evidence in what she had that she shouldn't have had, the most is the handover sheets and blood gas. I don't know, I'm just thinking out loud..

I do get where people are coming from with the card thing as some do similar by taking pics too, guess it’s a bit like the Fb searches and the medical notes at home debates were in earlier threads (although this was obvs before we found out it was 200+ notes and over 1000 searches). But I agree with others, we haven’t been shown enough proof that she does this a lot and regularly, need to see it more than one other time. Also I think taking pics of birthday cards and thank you cards, although something I wouldn’t do myself, is quite acceptable a reminder of a nice event is fine. It’s taking pictures of a sympathy card of a baby that you’re on trial accused of murdering is more than just strange. Why would you want a reminder like that and even if it was for genuine reasons I agree with others, it’s the fact there’s no explanation of it. I think in LL’s case the notes, Fb searches and card on phone are trophies and I can’t see them as anything other than that.
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Just been discussing this IRL with a friend and we both agree:
taking a pic of a card you received- fairly normal behaviour.
taking a pic of a card you Sent someone- bit weird but ok maybe if was a heartfelt poem or something
taking a pic of a card you sent someone about their dead child who you know in a professional capacity-
Can anyone think of a reason you would do this, other than to prove or convince others you are a ‘good person’
Can’t get past this part

You said it much better than me
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Taking a photo of a card you've sent to someone else suggests you're sending it for your own reasons and not for that person. Sure its just my thoughts and not saying I think that's what she was thinking, but it is very strange.

Also this

 

[gigilouxx]

She describes it all as “normal behaviour for her” but that doesn’t mean it’s not suspicious
Normal behaviour for a burglar is scoping out houses and trying doors, just cos they describe it as normal doesn’t mean it’s not sinister

 

[RosaLamp]

This says that LL has written the obs charts for Child O for 2:30pm on 23rd.
And then later, swipe data shows LL entered the unit at 2:39pm from labour ward.

Someone help me out - does this suggest she quickly left the unit after obs then returned? Behaviour that could suggest she has done this before?

Or writing obs is done at a different time?

 

[MmmB777]

Why didn’t she take time off as suggested to her by SB if she was so exhausted and emotionally drained as she claims on the 25th June? Thing is she is described as chirpy the day child P died by two people. She also does nothing but focus on her needle wick and send text messages on the 25th describing nurses running around as funny.
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Not much mention of air gulping from either Benny boy or Luce. Thought that’s what killed the triplets? And baby Q’s issues were also caused by air gulping. Strange not to mention all the fatal air gulping.

 

[tay65]

Why didn’t she take time off as suggested to her by SB if she was so exhausted and emotionally drained as she claims on the 25th June? Thing is she is described as chirpy the day child P died by two people. She also does nothing but focus on her needle wick and send text messages on the 25th describing nurses running around as funny.

I totally agree. At the debrief of the death of the two babies whilst I cannot recall the exact words used she was upbeat and refused to take the weekend off and this is when Karen Rees was contacted (I think her surname is Rees).
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What do people think of the card situation though, I was a bit on the fence with this, I have taken photos of cards, given to me. Basically so I don't have to store them. I haven't taken any that I've sent... I wonder why she does this? The card in itself is an odd one to send in this situation, but I guess that doesn't make somebody a murderer. OK, I'm still very much edging towards guilty, and even more so she's taken the stand. But there are some bits of evidence I do find baffling... The photo she took of the card for a friend, could this be linked to a, specific date? Maybe another motive for keeping it. In terms of evidence in what she had that she shouldn't have had, the most is the handover sheets and blood gas. I don't know, I'm just thinking out loud..

I think if she had photos of a lot of cards he would have said this. He has shown a picture of one other card and not elaborated. If she had a lot of pictures I think he would have said a number such as 20 be ause this would have been an advantage to her.
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Also she said no name gave her a lift as she would be walking home alone at night. It was 23 June two days after the longest day it wouldn't have even been dark at 10 pm.

Also 23 June 2016 was the day of the Brexit vote a historic day.
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LL says two babies were sent back to Chester too soon. So Alder Hey are now under that bus and LL knows more than them.
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I totally agree. At the debrief of the death of the two babies whilst I cannot recall the exact words used she was upbeat and refused to take the weekend off and this is when Karen Rees was contacted (I think her surname is Rees).
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I think if she had photos of a lot of cards he would have said this. He has shown a picture of one other card and not elaborated. If she had a lot of pictures I think he would have said a number such as 20 be ause this would have been an advantage to her.
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Also 23 June 2016 was the day of the Brexit vote a historic day.
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LL says two babies were sent back to Chester too soon. So Alder Hey are now under that bus and LL knows more than them.

And a Datix report on her phone for O and P which she cannot remember whether she sent

 

[Lucyxxxx]

Abit iffy int she.

 

[DellaC]

I don't recall hearing about Datix report being on her phone. This is another confidential document I assume?

 

[Haveyouanywool]

see, I see this totally differently. His belief in her guilt/innocence is no different to us here, he is a human capable of logical thought and opinion. The small details he presents are fact, they may be cleverly given in context to make it seem more loaded to his argument but let’s face it the prosecution will have manipulated some facts to sound worse than they were in context (some of her texts for example - please don’t take this as me downplaying the seriousness of other actions). we have a justice system that prides itself on giving a fair trial, and it’s important for everyone involved - if I was a colleague or a parent, I’d want to know a bloody good argument had happened from both camps to make sure that a verdict was justified and right. I’d want to know that no one could ever try to say she had been any kind of victim here.

If she is guilty, the facts of the trial speak for themselves - the KC is merely ensuring they are debated and nothing around those facts is misleading or missed.

Which brings me on to the other mentioned topic of how it would feel for any NG charges. This has been the forefront of my mind all along tbh, I know I can’t even imagine what the parents are going through but what really is justice in this case? Justice for the case as a whole with her being locked up/key thrown away - absolutely. Justice for all involved to ensure there is an NHS review and culture change - yes. But nothing reverses the harm or brings those angels back. For me, an overall verdict and the points above are what I would want - but of course that’s my personal stance.

ffs. I wish I had done law instead

I agree with what you’re saying about a fair trail and that BM is attempting to achieve that in a logical and detached manner, although from this viewpoint he seems to have precious little to work on.
I can understand all that but, if by some miracle she did get an overall not guilty verdict (and I’ve a feeling he’d be even more surprised than most if this did happened) surely, if he did believe she was guilty, he would have to at least question what the hell he was doing with his life?
Undoubtedly he’s very clever, but surely there’s more important things than being clever. Like having a heart for instance.
I’m giving him the benefit of the doubt by suggesting he might just wrestle with a NG verdict a bit. Maybe not (the b).