Lucy Letby Case #30

[Tofino]

I have no memory of the shift. My only memory is I wasn’t involved.

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Lucy tells the court she may not have been on the unit when the baby collapsed at 1am. BM does not ask her where she would have been - this is mid shift.

This is too convenient for me. A card swipe entering the unit 15 mins after baby collapsed? And neither she or the records can confirm her whereabouts ?

 

[Aberscot]

From the Chester standard:
Letby recalls she went to nursery room 3 to talk to Jennifer Jones-Key "She was a good friend of mine" - as part of getting ready to work.
Was this the nurse that had photos of LL on her Facebook page? I guess she’s maybe not a friend anymore , I was thinking she might have been a witness in defence but according to LL she WAS a good friend so I guess no longer?

 

[Motherofpugs]

That poor baby bleeding from his throat. Just awful She’s trying to imply that the intubation attempts caused the bleeding but I’m sure the doctor testified that the reason they couldn’t intubate was due to the bleeding and swelling right?

 

[stardust1]

Sorry just catching up but I don’t understand this either. In the Trust I work for stoma care comes under personal care/toileting and band 2s and 3s will change stoma bags in wards and in community it’s actually carers. It’s also something you’d see as a student nurse within your 3 years of training - just like air embolism. That’s a common thing you’d be taught on placement when priming IV lines etc. As you say she acts as if she’s super nurse when it suits but denies knowledge of basic nursing tasks.

Completely agree with everything in this. I think it’s another tit excuse. I looked back at some pictures and often it was a lady in a beige uniform who changed my sons bag if I wasn’t there. I think the beige uniform was a care assistant (not sure of banding) i think Lucy has created a mountain out of a mole hill for the stoma. I will go onto the wiki and find out what other complications the baby had but for most a stoma is nothing, babies bounce back so quickly from it.

 

[pissedandsad]

From LL taking the stand, we can see from her responses that she is (may be unaware) using a DAVRO reaction, which is v typical in people with NPD.

D - Deny - the accused will deny the report immediately. They will remain steadfast in their assertion. Responses for example could be like she has said previously "I only wanted to care for the babies".

A - Attack (yet to see this on defense, possibly will show in cross-examination responses)

V & O - Reverse Victim and offender - the attempt of the perpetrator to switch roles with the victim. Rather than accepting responsibility for their actions, they aim to make the original victim into the perpetrator. In this case, she's either blaming the hospital for xyz problems, or her possible incompetence (no accountability for seeking further training, help, etc). But either way, LL is painting a picture that non of this is her fault, she was there to care for the babies, and everyone else is at fault. LL thinks she is the victim.

Can't wait for the cross exam, to see if she does attack. I've cared for many people with NPD, and grew up in an extremely abusive household, and in someways, they are cookie-cutters of each other. Same manipulative responses!

Here endeth my ted talk

Trump does this all the time. Thanks for this reminder. My mother has many narcissistic traits but can also behave in incredibly generous, unselfish ways at other times - she is likely an overlap of several pd’s. I’m sorry you had rough beginnings. I’m sure your experiences have helped so many other people.

 

[nichew]

The 3 hour round trip to court.
The 6am rude awakening.
Her Dad not getting the job in Torbay or wherever it was.
The shredder she didn't even know she owned.
Craig David

Abbey Clancy

 

[White]

It's getting worse. She coming across as even more of a blatant liar.

Not only trying to refute a mother's testimony (of which telephone call logs back up the evidence given by baby E's mother), also today denying she was where Dr J saw her. To add to other inconsistencies. I know it's been said already, but how many other staff/witnesses is she throwing under the bus so far!

Digging a hole for herself I think. How can Everyone Else be wrong/liars?! Except her. She can't remember such a such a shift, but knows she wasn't involved with this, etc, etc.

 

[slidders]

Trump does this all the time. Thanks for this reminder. My mother has many narcissistic traits but can also behave in incredibly generous, unselfish ways at other times - she is likely an overlap of several pd’s. I’m sorry you had rough beginnings. I’m sure your experiences have helped so many other people.

Alice Evans does it if anyone follows her thread, she’s a bleep too. And that Katie Hayes from Liverpool.
But I think that’s why I’m drawn to them and Letby, many of us will have come across narcs professionally and personally and will have made our lives hell. I really want to see them get their comeuppance.

 

[amsmall]

From LL taking the stand, we can see from her responses that she is (may be unaware) using a DAVRO reaction, which is v typical in people with NPD.

D - Deny - the accused will deny the report immediately. They will remain steadfast in their assertion. Responses for example could be like she has said previously "I only wanted to care for the babies".

A - Attack (yet to see this on defense, possibly will show in cross-examination responses)

V & O - Reverse Victim and offender - the attempt of the perpetrator to switch roles with the victim. Rather than accepting responsibility for their actions, they aim to make the original victim into the perpetrator. In this case, she's either blaming the hospital for xyz problems, or her possible incompetence (no accountability for seeking further training, help, etc). But either way, LL is painting a picture that non of this is her fault, she was there to care for the babies, and everyone else is at fault. LL thinks she is the victim.

Can't wait for the cross exam, to see if she does attack. I've cared for many people with NPD, and grew up in an extremely abusive household, and in someways, they are cookie-cutters of each other. Same manipulative responses!

Here endeth my ted talk

I think she'll attack, while chucking a few histrionics in the mix ...ie her thyroid, PTSD and maybe feigning a few fainting episodes

 

[tay65]

You know, I had a moment today where I have waivered from my guilty stance and panicked they were going to put someone innocent away. I think it was purely because I don't want to believe someone could be this evil, to have done this to all those tiny little babies who were doing nothing, but fighting so hard to survive with a few already having battles to fight before anyone attacking them.

But hearing all her defence just bought it back that she is guilty. They aren't offering anything, except her perspective and it's her against everyone.

Whatever excuses they give, it doesn't excuse the facts that she has broken GDPR (having 200+ sheets of paperwork that shouldn't leave the hospital, searching for patients parents in Facebook) and shown that she seems really incompetent, cannot get off her phone, despite it being so busy, etc...

I think she will be found guilty and I think her taking the stand will have cemented that verdict.

In questioning this week she said she didn't realize she had so many handover notes at home and that they were taken home accidentally, I think there were around 250. What a ridiculous excuse, it would have been more plausible to admit it and say she couldn't help herself and blame it on OCD.

 

[Tofino]

A query for those in the know. Baby J is the baby with the stoma where the suggestion from defence is heavily leaning towards baby shouldn’t be at COCH. Not enough staff and those there not qualified enough.

however I noticed baby had gone to Alder Hey to have the stoma fitted. And baby then returned to COCH. If baby shouldn’t have been at COCH and that was the cause of the collapses, are AH also to blame? Surely they are the ones saying baby can now return to a level 2? Or is the onus on the receiving hospital to say we don’t think we should have this baby.

 

[tay65]

Completely agree with everything in this. I think it’s another tit excuse. I looked back at some pictures and often it was a lady in a beige uniform who changed my sons bag if I wasn’t there. I think the beige uniform was a care assistant (not sure of banding) i think Lucy has created a mountain out of a mole hill for the stoma. I will go onto the wiki and find out what other complications the baby had but for most a stoma is nothing, babies bounce back so quickly from it.

I hope the jury are made aware of things like this. Whilst I worked for the NHS for in excess of 25 years (retired recently), it was in non clinical roles. When I read the Chester Standard report this morning discussing the stoma issues I wasn't aware of how this is managed with regard to staffing. After reading all your posts as so many posters have clinical knowledge and experience I now have a lot more understanding so I hope the jury are also fully informed.

 

[stardust1]

A query for those in the know. Baby J is the baby with the stoma where the suggestion from defence is heavily leaning towards baby shouldn’t be at COCH. Not enough staff and those there not qualified enough.

however I noticed baby had gone to Alder Hey to have the stoma fitted. And baby then returned to COCH. If baby shouldn’t have been at COCH and that was the cause of the collapses, are AH also to blame? Surely they are the ones saying baby can now return to a level 2? Or is the onus on the receiving hospital to say we don’t think we should have this baby.


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i think I have read your question right and feel free to correct me if I haven’t so my son was born in a small hospital. He was taken to the NICU after birth and that hospital knew he needed the stoma fitted at the large children's hospital. The small hospital had to liaise with the larger hospital and arrange transport, surgery and date. So we then wen’t there to get the surgery done. After his pain was managed the childrens hospital made sure appropriate care was in place. We had to wait 4 days extra before a transfer back because the smaller hospital did not feel they had the staffing levels or a bed space so it was the smaller hospital’s responsibility to speak up to get him discharged and admitted. My sons surgeon actually worked at aldher hey in 2014-2019 fitting stomas etc I may ask him if he has any gos when i see him next week
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I hope the jury are made aware of things like this. Whilst I worked for the NHS for in excess of 25 years (retired recently), it was in non clinical roles. When I read the Chester Standard report this morning discussing the stoma issues I wasn't aware of how this is managed with regard to staffing. After reading all your posts as so many posters have clinical knowledge and experience I now have a lot more understanding so I hope the jury are also fully informed.

i was just thinking this. I was very ignorant towards stomas before i had him and so was my whole family so I was wondering if it was one of those things that you have no idea about unless you have first hand experience.

 

[nichew]

a Random thought I’ve had a few times regarding the 2 lads I think they are her cousions! I get the feeling they wa forced to make a fuss of her and pretend to like her, just to keep the peace. Bet she wa a right fool growing up

 

[Tofino]

*then searches facebook*

 

[nichew]

Even if it’s viable that she’s brought stuff home by mistake, does she not wash her clothes? Cos you’d notice stuff in your pockets. It’s not the fact she’s took them home for me, it’s the fact she’s kept them at home. You’d take them back to the hospital or at least dispose of them

Surely i Thought policy was to get changed in and out of work clothes at work, to help stop cross contamination? And if it was me uniform would be stright in the wash when I got home.

 

[spedferry]

I’ve worked in care for 13 years and been a student nurse - during both I changed stoma bags. At university we were taught about them. In the care home we were shown how to do it by the community nurses then left to it. I do not believe for one minute that she had no idea about them.

 

[OldBlondie]

Obvs I’ve always been firmly in the guilty camp, but always said I’d be prepared to listen to the defence. So now I’m even more in the G camp after LL taking the stand. I honestly don’t know how Bowel Movement could possibly come back from this, it’s soooooooo obvious that LL is lying, I mean they’re not really offering any alternative explanations other than it was everybody in the world except LL. Even if he has some medical experts, I don’t think they will be enough to convince anyone she’s NG. The thing is the prosecution medical experts always excepted there was a possibility of another explanation such as the resus for liver injury, but it all comes down to probable versus possible. Therefore BM’s experts can only do the same, accept what the prosecution experts have said (cos ofc it’s possible), but they’ll try to emphasise that an alternative explanation is also as possible (I don’t think it is tho given everything we know)

I really don’t think the defence have anything particularly to give at this stage, I always wondered if they’d have something massive up their sleeve, but I don’t think they will have. Think it’s going to be very hard to overlook how badly LL is going to come off after her cross. And if it comes down to which medical experts you put more weight in, I know which ones I’ll be choosing, and I think after cross many will have the same opinion as me. I think we will start cross on Thursday, and I can’t wait. And as I say I don’t think LL will even care that it’s so obvious she’s lying, she’s not taken the stand to actually try and get herself off. She’s definitely a psychopath, and I think the npd that’s been discussed also is spot on

ETA I also think on cross the tears and potential fainting may occur, oh how we will all be so surprised

 

[Ali88]

Completely agree with everything in this. I think it’s another tit excuse. I looked back at some pictures and often it was a lady in a beige uniform who changed my sons bag if I wasn’t there. I think the beige uniform was a care assistant (not sure of banding) i think Lucy has created a mountain out of a mole hill for the stoma. I will go onto the wiki and find out what other complications the baby had but for most a stoma is nothing, babies bounce back so quickly from it.

Sorry I should’ve said band 2 and 3 are nursing assistants/auxiliaries, that would make complete sense if your son’s was cared for by the care assistant.

 

[Tofino]

Oooh looks like ‘The Scientist’ has met with ‘The Statistician’.

And Ben Myers is taking no notice