Lucy Letby Case #30

[MmmB777]

The reviews found no staffing issues up until February which I think is baby K’s birth month. It was horribly busy in the middle of the case because she was harming many babies along side each other. So much so the parents had begun to talk about a mystery virus at Chester.
Honestly don’t understand why she was so desperate to work there and so devastated to be redeployed. Everyone there was garbage except for her apparently. And in the next breath they are family and it’s ‘we this we that’. She says multiple times over and over that they’re a great team and everyone did everything they could when these babies die. All the deaths are a total shock to her. She seems to want to have it all ways.

 

[tay65]

This is getting to the point it’s irritating me now. Stupid little bleep so all those parents who witnessed some of the worst things that could happen to their child are liars?

And according to the DM Podcast every one of the parents are in court. If the lies and selective memory is infuriating us we can only imagine the upset this must be causing the families.

 

[MmmB777]

Thought it had maybe been an early finish but Dan is back now

 

[gigilouxx]

And according to the DM Podcast every one of the parents are in court. If the lies and selective memory is infuriating us we can only imagine the upset this must be causing the families.

Don’t cos I’d be in handcuffs

 

[Tofino]

Thanks Tof, I’d love to hear her speak because when I’m reading her words in the live reporting, I read them in the podcast voice so just wondered if they actually were quite similar. I think cross is going to be thurs/fri just by how quickly Bowel Movement is skipping through the babies, but does it go to cross as soon as she’s finished with BM? I’m not sure how it works. I really hope you can make one of the cross days, it’s been fab having a few Tattler Burgundy’s in to give us a real account of what’s going on and get a feel for what it’s really like

Yes once BM is finished it’s NJ’s turn!! I wonder if BM has much more to ask her after going through each of the babies. He might go into more about the grievance period.


I’ve caught up with today’s reporting and I think baby K is one of the strongest cases. She’s yet again completely denying the witness account and also completely contradicting herself on the stand.

She can remember she wasn’t there:

Letby denies being at the cotside when Dr Jayaram entered room 1

Letby says in police interview she was not by Child K's incubator at the time Dr Jayaram entered room 1.

She denies being there at that point, or having any involvement in the tube being dislodged, or 'just watching'.

but she can’t remember if she was there:

Letby was asked by police if she was present when Child K's ET tube dislodged. "I don't remember."

Letby was asked if she remembered Child K's deterioration - "No" was the answer

She had no involvement with baby K other than signing for morphine :

Letby says she signed for morphine to be administered to Child K. She tells the court she had no involvement with Child K beyond that point.

Letby is then recorded, on the neonatal schedule, as caring for Child K after the event has taken place.

The first recorded activity is for morphine administration, with Joanne Williams signing for the medication and Letby being a co-signer

But claims reason for searching for baby K’s surname was because she was a patient she cared for:
Letby is asked about a Facebook search for the surname of Child K, made on April 20, 2018, at 11.56pm.

Letby says: "You still think of patients you've cared for."

She says she does not recall why she looked up the name at that point.

 

[OldBlondie]

Yes once BM is finished it’s NJ’s turn!! I wonder if BM has much more to ask her after going through each of the babies. He might go into more about the grievance period.


I’ve caught up with today’s reporting and I think baby K is one of the strongest cases. She’s yet again completely denying the witness account and also completely contradicting herself on the stand.

She can remember she wasn’t there:

Letby denies being at the cotside when Dr Jayaram entered room 1

Letby says in police interview she was not by Child K's incubator at the time Dr Jayaram entered room 1.

She denies being there at that point, or having any involvement in the tube being dislodged, or 'just watching'.

but she can’t remember if she was there:

Letby was asked by police if she was present when Child K's ET tube dislodged. "I don't remember."

Letby was asked if she remembered Child K's deterioration - "No" was the answer

She had no involvement with baby K other than signing for morphine :

Letby says she signed for morphine to be administered to Child K. She tells the court she had no involvement with Child K beyond that point.

Letby is then recorded, on the neonatal schedule, as caring for Child K after the event has taken place.

The first recorded activity is for morphine administration, with Joanne Williams signing for the medication and Letby being a co-signer

But claims reason for searching for baby K’s surname was because she was a patient she cared for:
Letby is asked about a Facebook search for the surname of Child K, made on April 20, 2018, at 11.56pm.

Letby says: "You still think of patients you've cared for."

She says she does not recall why she looked up the name at that point.

Oh yes I guess he will have more to speak to her about after going through the babies, he prob will go through the grievance and we’ll have to listen to how it was so awful for her blah blah . It’s going to be really hard to judge then when exactly cross will start and how long it’s likely to ask.

You’ve highlighted perfectly how she’s lying her Matalan a off, again this is why I don’t believe for one minute that she’s taken the stand in the hopes of getting herself off. She’s made herself look so bad, and if this is with BM, how awful is she going to look with NJ. I think she’s up there purely for her own glory hunting, she just couldn’t help herself.

Going from the discussions in these threads, she may have had a slight chance of getting herself off some charges, as BM has muddied the waters slightly throughout, but taking the stand has sealed her fate. And that’s why I think she’s done it for her own sick and twisted reasons. She’s guilty and she knows it, cos if she genuinely thought she had a chance of getting off she wouldn’t have taken the stand, or if she had she wouldn’t be accusing basically everyone else (130 odd witnesses so far) of being the liars and would come across completely differently to how she is. An innocent person would not be going on the way she is. All the ones that have followed big trials before said she’d take the stand cos she wouldn’t be able to help herself and you were all completely right. I deffo think her motive is to do with attention and power going by this attention seeking behaviour now too

 

[MmmB777]

Yikes is the latest bit of questioning actually in order to imply that parents of other babies could have had access to the bag that poisoned baby L Jesus Christ so were they there for baby F too? Or two lots of evil parents? Give me strength.

 

[OldBlondie]

Yikes is the latest bit of questioning actually in order to imply that parents of other babies could have had access to the bag that poisoned baby L Jesus Christ so were they there for baby F too? Or two lots of evil parents? Give me strength.

It’s honestly laughable at this point isn’t it

 

[MmmB777]

It’s honestly laughable at this point isn’t it

Either that or the suggestion is that parents would have noticed a nurse tampering with a bag? Whilst doing what, manically evil laughing whilst squirting a big needle with a vial with “poison” written on it? As if they’d notice such things in the midst of caring and worrying about their own sick babies? Just bizarre. Think they must have been saying parents could access things not the strongest argument is it.

 

[Tofino]

She hasn’t answered why she didn’t bin the paperwork. Of course it’s an error not doing so because she is now on trial for murder

She doesn’t even acknowledge she shouldn’t have had them. Why would you even put a blood gas report in your pocket?

 

[gimmethattea]

You know, I had a moment today where I have waivered from my guilty stance and panicked they were going to put someone innocent away. I think it was purely because I don't want to believe someone could be this evil, to have done this to all those tiny little babies who were doing nothing, but fighting so hard to survive with a few already having battles to fight before anyone attacking them.

But hearing all her defence just bought it back that she is guilty. They aren't offering anything, except her perspective and it's her against everyone.

Whatever excuses they give, it doesn't excuse the facts that she has broken GDPR (having 200+ sheets of paperwork that shouldn't leave the hospital, searching for patients parents in Facebook) and shown that she seems really incompetent, cannot get off her phone, despite it being so busy, etc...

I think she will be found guilty and I think her taking the stand will have cemented that verdict.

 

[gigilouxx]

Even if it’s viable that she’s brought stuff home by mistake, does she not wash her clothes? Cos you’d notice stuff in your pockets. It’s not the fact she’s took them home for me, it’s the fact she’s kept them at home. You’d take them back to the hospital or at least dispose of them

 

[MmmB777]

Even if it’s viable that she’s brought stuff home by mistake, does she not wash her clothes? Cos you’d notice stuff in your pockets. It’s not the fact she’s took them home for me, it’s the fact she’s kept them at home. You’d take them back to the hospital or at least dispose of them

Exactly this. She’s just moved in. She’s taken it out of her pocket at some point. She’s left it there for over two years. She’s absolutely terrified and thinks people will think she is evil if she made mistakes with the baby’s care (apparently! Only after being redeployed though!), but she’s totally comfortable breaking multiple rules and hanging on to hundreds of medical documents. To use her fave phrase, I would say it was “natural behaviour for her” to take, keep, store patients medical records at home. Not. Normal.

 

[Wellthisisinteresting]

I think BM is doing his best to give her a legally fair trial and may of advised her to respond as little as possible, lots of closed questions to her where the only answer is “ No” “ cant recall”

If he’s calling medical experts to challenge what the prosecution has stated via their experts will they come after all of the babies & Lucy or would they of given their expertise by now?

 

[Tofino]

I think BM is doing his best to give her a legally fair trial and may of advised her to respond as little as possible, lots of closed questions to her where the only answer is “ No” “ cant recall”

If he’s calling medical experts to challenge what the prosecution has stated via their experts will they come after all of the babies & Lucy or would they of given their expertise by now?

the defendant always goes first if they take the stand. So cross examination will go next then Lucy will be done. And then BM will then call any of his own witnesses.

At this stage i wouldn’t expect him to provide extra evidence yet, this is just Lucy’s ‘time’ to give her side of things, so he will get into his own medical evidence afterwards.
---
(If he has any!)

 

[Wellthisisinteresting]

the defendant always goes first if they take the stand. So cross examination will go next then Lucy will be done. And then BM will then call any of his own witnesses.

At this stage i wouldn’t expect him to provide extra evidence yet, this is just Lucy’s ‘time’ to give her side of things, so he will get into his own medical evidence afterwards.
---
(If he has any!)

Thanks so much Tof
Cant wait to see that witness list:

- Smudge
- Tiger
- Shop keeper at cockington bay
- Till operator number 5 at Matalan

 

[amsmall]

The student nurse who LL said she was glued to then txt to ( I think) Dr NN that the student was alone when one of the babies collapsed
---
Letby said Child O had died on the student's first day of a four-week placement. She adds who was on duty that day.

I think we need another bus. There's poor Melanie whose not qualified
Dr J
All the other nurses going round poisoning the bags, oh and the parents

 

[gigilouxx]

Double Dr guys can’t forget them, are they already under the bus or has she not threw em yet?

 

[Dolly Daydreaming]

From LL taking the stand, we can see from her responses that she is (may be unaware) using a DAVRO reaction, which is v typical in people with NPD.

D - Deny - the accused will deny the report immediately. They will remain steadfast in their assertion. Responses for example could be like she has said previously "I only wanted to care for the babies".

A - Attack (yet to see this on defense, possibly will show in cross-examination responses)

V & O - Reverse Victim and offender - the attempt of the perpetrator to switch roles with the victim. Rather than accepting responsibility for their actions, they aim to make the original victim into the perpetrator. In this case, she's either blaming the hospital for xyz problems, or her possible incompetence (no accountability for seeking further training, help, etc). But either way, LL is painting a picture that non of this is her fault, she was there to care for the babies, and everyone else is at fault. LL thinks she is the victim.

Can't wait for the cross exam, to see if she does attack. I've cared for many people with NPD, and grew up in an extremely abusive household, and in someways, they are cookie-cutters of each other. Same manipulative responses!

Here endeth my ted talk

 

[Ali88]

What would be an example of a band 4 nurse? My son has had a stoma since birth I am really confused what all the fuss is about with that one, just change the bagon one hand she pretends she is the most qualified nurse but now she can’t manage a stoma?

Sorry just catching up but I don’t understand this either. In the Trust I work for stoma care comes under personal care/toileting and band 2s and 3s will change stoma bags in wards and in community it’s actually carers. It’s also something you’d see as a student nurse within your 3 years of training - just like air embolism. That’s a common thing you’d be taught on placement when priming IV lines etc. As you say she acts as if she’s super nurse when it suits but denies knowledge of basic nursing tasks.