Lucy Letby case #22

[Milktray]

I don't know what people are expecting from BM. He is going down the 'confirmation bias' route, so regardless of how tit it may come across, there is not much else. He is going to bring stuff like this up. It doesn't matter if there's other medical experts giving their opinion.

Ben will probably say that Dr Evans opinion influenced others aswell. Ben is not saying it to be desperate, he is saying it to give an example of how this went from natural causes to negligence to murder. And how alot of evidence is based on what key witnesses remember.

But Ben is an expert in his field as much as Dr Evans is an expert in his. This trial is far from over and the 'cats not in the bag' yet, although up to now, too many 'coincidences' for this to be a coincidence.

 

[DellaC]

I don't know what people are expecting from BM. He is going down the 'confirmation bias' route, so regardless of how tit it may come across, there is not much else. He is going to bring stuff like this up. It doesn't matter if there's other medical experts giving their opinion.

Ben will probably say that Dr Evans opinion influenced others aswell. Ben is not saying it to be desperate, he is saying it to give an example of how this went from natural causes to negligence to murder. And how alot of evidence is based on what key witnesses remember.

But Ben is an expert in his field as much as Dr Evans is an expert in his. This trial is far from over and the 'cats not in the bag' yet, although up to now, too many 'coincidences' for this to be a coincidence.

I still want to boooo and hisssss when he makes his entrance, but of course you're right He's just doing his job. (The big eejit )

 

[avabella]

I don't know what people are expecting from BM. He is going down the 'confirmation bias' route, so regardless of how tit it may come across, there is not much else. He is going to bring stuff like this up. It doesn't matter if there's other medical experts giving their opinion.

Ben will probably say that Dr Evans opinion influenced others aswell. Ben is not saying it to be desperate, he is saying it to give an example of how this went from natural causes to negligence to murder. And how alot of evidence is based on what key witnesses remember.

But Ben is an expert in his field as much as Dr Evans is an expert in his. This trial is far from over and the 'cats not in the bag' yet, although up to now, too many 'coincidences' for this to be a coincidence.

That’s a really good way to look at it. I guess I don’t take weight on every single thing based on any previous belief - right now I have no belief and find parts of the prosecution and the defence (what we’ve seen) interesting and both have some points that have made me think ‘oh, yes that could be the case’. But like you say, it’s not over yet so to me I just like to see every piece of the puzzle before deciding what the full picture is

 

[MmmB777]

Sorry but every defence lawyer will have a pop at doing this to any expert witness that has anything that looks strong. It’s not something unique to this case or because of special things that special BM has discovered. I agree he’s doing his job, they all do this. If this little exchange can put doubt about the whole case against Letby in the jurors minds then god help them. The evidence is all there and it’s stacked up monstrously against her. He needs a miracle and he knows it. He’s going on about the integrity of one bloke, 30 years in this line of work, used by the NCA, sworn under oath to give his independent opinion that’s then been peer reviewed by multiple other people.

 

[Tofino]

Sorry but every defence lawyer will have a pop at doing this to any expert witness that has anything that looks strong. It’s not something unique to this case or because of special things that special BM has discovered. I agree he’s doing his job, they all do this. If this little exchange can put doubt about the whole case against Letby in the jurors minds then god help them. The evidence is all there and it’s stacked up monstrously against her. He needs a miracle and he knows it. He’s going on about the integrity of one bloke, 30 years in this line of work, used by the NCA, sworn under oath to give his independent opinion that’s then been peer reviewed by multiple other people.

Yes I don’t have any issue in BM asking these questions. I’d rather that happen so there can be no grounds for an unfair trial. I think I’m concerned that some see this as a bit of a ‘gotcha - told you she’s a scapegoat’ when it’s anything but that when you look at the bigger picture. I bet the Facebook groups have been wild today!


Let’s for argument sake say Dr Evans is completely discredited as an expert. Apart from Sandie Bohin I don’t believe the other experts have interacted as I’m sure Myers would bring that up in cross examination to keep reiterating his confirmation bias angle.

If all Evans’ evidence was removed, would that change anyone’s stance on the case?

For me no, because the other evidence is strong even without Evans. BM is going to need to do more than try and discredit one expert.

 

[MmmB777]

Yes I don’t have any issue in BM asking these questions. I’d rather that happen so there can be no grounds for an unfair trial. I think I’m concerned that some see this as a bit of a ‘gotcha - told you she’s a scapegoat’ when it’s anything but that when you look at the bigger picture. I bet the Facebook groups have been wild today!


Let’s for argument sake say Dr Evans is completely discredited as an expert. Apart from Sandie Bohin I don’t believe the other experts have interacted as I’m sure Myers would bring that up in cross examination to keep reiterating his confirmation bias angle.

If all Evans’ evidence was removed, would that change anyone’s stance on the case?

For me no, because the other evidence is strong even without Evans. BM is going to need to do more than try and discredit one expert.

Exactly this. Did Dr. E plant air by the spines of these babies? Did he fix it so Letby was there for umpteen strange and sudden collapses? So there is a poisoner and it’s not Letby despite her hanging both bags that started the hypos but everyone is just interested in stitching her up. Make it make sense I think Dr E reports have been reviewed by two or three others also, they mentioned at the start one person had sadly died since.
It’s an extremely elaborate money making scheme for Dr E and he’s defo having the time of his life up there with BM too. I bet he retires after this, poor bloke!

 

[Tofino]

This is from the wiki, page 2. He was tasked with looking at 33 cases and he didn’t know the staff. I just don’t see how confirmation bias really fits - he’s found some cases not suspicious, some were and the ones he found suspicious Lucy just happened to be around at the time of each incident?
- -
He was asked to investigate 33 cases in total, with two insulin cases later.

He said there were two babies were born in unsurvivable conditions, with obvious medical diagnoses.

He said: "The name Lucy Letby meant nothing to me. I didn't know the staff.
- -
Incidentally, re-reading the reporting from then compared to now shows just how much we are missing. It actually took me by surprise how detailed it was back then. And we still wouldn’t have been getting everything at that point either.
---

Exactly this. Did Dr. E plant air by the spines of these babies? Did he fix it so Letby was there for umpteen strange and sudden collapses? So there is a poisoner and it’s not Letby despite her hanging both bags that started the hypos but everyone is just interested in stitching her up. Make it make sense I think Dr E reports have been reviewed by two or three others also, they mentioned at the start one person had sadly died since.
It’s an extremely elaborate money making scheme for Dr E and he’s defo having the time of his life up there with BM too. I bet he retires after this, poor bloke!

ohhhh I get it now. This was one last big push for his retirement fund!


I forgot the 3rd expert died

 

[MmmB777]

This is from the wiki, page 2. He was tasked with looking at 33 cases and he didn’t know the staff. I just don’t see now confirmation bias really fits - he’s found some cases not suspicious, some were and the ones he found suspicious Lucy just happened to be around at the time of each incident?
- -
He was asked to investigate 33 cases in total, with two insulin cases later.

He said there were two babies were born in unsurvivable conditions, with obvious medical diagnoses.

He said: "The name Lucy Letby meant nothing to me. I didn't know the staff.
- -
Incidentally, re-reading the reporting from then compared to now shows just how much we are missing. It actually took me by surprise how detailed it was back then. And we still wouldn’t have been getting everything at that point either.

Even given the insulin cases later! So they were not influencing him. I mean does BM realise he’s pretty much implicating the police force and NCA with these accusations.
---

This is from the wiki, page 2. He was tasked with looking at 33 cases and he didn’t know the staff. I just don’t see how confirmation bias really fits - he’s found some cases not suspicious, some were and the ones he found suspicious Lucy just happened to be around at the time of each incident?
- -
He was asked to investigate 33 cases in total, with two insulin cases later.

He said there were two babies were born in unsurvivable conditions, with obvious medical diagnoses.

He said: "The name Lucy Letby meant nothing to me. I didn't know the staff.
- -
Incidentally, re-reading the reporting from then compared to now shows just how much we are missing. It actually took me by surprise how detailed it was back then. And we still wouldn’t have been getting everything at that point either.
---


ohhhh I get it now. This was one last big push for his retirement fund!


I forgot the 3rd expert died

Maybe he didn’t die. Dr Evans killed him in the swastika shaped gardens because he didn’t actually agree with his conclusions. Dr J watched on laughing manically and Dr Noname was busy spiking bags of insulin because Letby didn’t like his chocolate. And Dr Evans laughed all the way to the bank.

 

[SnoopySnooper86]

I’ve mentioned before when I was a witness in court & you get the defence barrister questioning you, its their job & they will chat balls, if you have half a brain you know what they’re getting at 20 mins before they get to it. It’s their job & even if they look like an absolute twit they don’t care.
Can’t knock him for trying.

In my experience I was half like duck me am I the one on trial here?

I was also shaking like a mofo, if there had happened to be a court artist, I’d have had wriggle vibration lines around me

 

[Milktray]

Sorry but every defence lawyer will have a pop at doing this to any expert witness that has anything that looks strong. It’s not something unique to this case or because of special things that special BM has discovered. I agree he’s doing his job, they all do this. If this little exchange can put doubt about the whole case against Letby in the jurors minds then god help them. The evidence is all there and it’s stacked up monstrously against her. He needs a miracle and he knows it. He’s going on about the integrity of one bloke, 30 years in this line of work, used by the NCA, sworn under oath to give his independent opinion that’s then been peer reviewed by multiple other people.

But in reality, the evidence is not all there. The prosecution evidence is there and yes, there's the 'coincidences'...of course, she's as guilty as sin. But there's no point in being complacent.

The defence haven't even started and if there's even a whiff of an email trace between drs or experts, where they've not agreed or someone is strongly swaying the opinion of others, then BM has done his job.

If defence has one strong day in court, then the feeling can very much change to 'tit, she's gonna get away with this'.

Even given the insulin cases later! So they were not influencing him. I mean does BM realise he’s pretty much implicating the police force and NCA with these accusations.
---

Maybe he didn’t die. Dr Evans killed him in the swastika shaped gardens because he didn’t actually agree with his conclusions. Dr J watched on laughing manically and Dr Noname was busy spiking bags of insulin because Letby didn’t like his chocolate. And Dr Evans laughed all the way to the bank.

Of course he does...LL case is built on confirmation bias!

Prosecution dissect messages and come out with some utter tit and same with the defence. It doesn't matter how innocent it is, it they can make the piece fit then they will add it. It works both ways!

 

[SnoopySnooper86]

Maybe he didn’t die. Dr Evans killed him in the swastika shaped gardens because he didn’t actually agree with his conclusions. Dr J watched on laughing manically and Dr Noname was busy spiking bags of insulin because Letby didn’t like his chocolate. And Dr Evans laughed all the way to the bank.

I need to go find that crazy ladies twitter for more batshit hypothesis

EDIT
Her most recent tweet has the word “batshit” in it & now I’m worried I’m being mind stalked…

 

[Tofino]

Maybe he didn’t die. Dr Evans killed him in the swastika shaped gardens because he didn’t actually agree with his conclusions. Dr J watched on laughing manically and Dr Noname was busy spiking bags of insulin because Letby didn’t like his chocolate. And Dr Evans laughed all the way to the bank.

Dr Evans killed him because he didn’t agree with his conclusions has left me for dead

 

[Pringles123]

A bit more from Doctor noname in this. Maybe don't read if you've just eaten

Lucy Letby told colleague she ‘wanted to cry' after baby collapsed, trial hears

She denies the murders of seven babies and the attempted murders of 10 others between June 2015 and June 2016.

www.irishnews.com

Ok, Ive finally caught up on this thread. It’s moving so fast.. or I’m moving slow.

Don’t laugh at me but I think I fancy Dr Noname, I actually went a bit weak at the knees reading his texts. Can I have him please? He’s adorable.

 

[IGiveUp22]

Whoever posted the bits earlier of the email/message to “Nick” at the NCA I actually didn’t see anything wrong in that personally
Whether he had his own suspicions or not (which is fair, everyone is human- it’s possible he only was thinking medical negligence if I’m honest) he will, like all the other experts & police, remained impartial & gone with the evidence.
I actually think they were likely shocked when they realised it was a murder enquiry ya know

 

[SnoopySnooper86]

10/10 would read again.
---

Ok, Ive finally caught up on this thread. It’s moving so fast.. or I’m moving slow.

Don’t laugh at me but I think I fancy Dr Noname, I actually went a bit weak at the knees reading his texts. Can I have him please? He’s adorable.

Nooooo Pringles babe he’s a wet lettuce simp!

 

[F1Grid]

All today tells me is that BM knows he's not winning this one.

 

[MmmB777]

But in reality, the evidence is not all there. The prosecution evidence is there and yes, there's the 'coincidences'...of course, she's as guilty as sin. But there's no point in being complacent.

The defence haven't even started and if there's even a whiff of an email trace between drs or experts, where they've not agreed or someone is strongly swaying the opinion of others, then BM has done his job.

If defence has one strong day in court, then the feeling can very much change to 'tit, she's gonna get away with this'.


Of course...LL case is built on confirmation bias!

Prosecution dissect messages and come out with some utter tit and same with the defence. It doesn't matter how innocent it is, it they can make the piece fit then they will add it. It works both ways!

Why does Dr Evan’s email put doubt into any prosecution evidence heard so far unless you ignore everything you’ve heard from countless people and decide Dr Evans has been wanting to implicate Letby specifically from the very start for some reason, money or what enjoying it
For example how could thst email make you doubt the professor saying today that baby N didn’t have a spontaneous bleed. How does it sow any doubt that a baby that was ready to go home had these events around Letby, so similar to others was just chance again. Why does his email throw anything at all into doubt. It’s quite frankly a little mental and I think the lady on Twitter could have done better. I prefer the swastika garden theory. I’m well aware this is what happens on both sides and I expect pros to give the same grilling but hopefully not over the contents of their inbox and something more crucial to the actual evidence.

 

[dual2099]

It’s not his defence though… he hasn’t started his defence yet. It’s just cross examination. All he has to do is put a little nugget of doubt in one or two jurors heads and then that’s it… not guilty.

Well of course. That’s his job. I completely agree. But we aren’t hearing everything. It’s important to remember that.

 

[DellaC]

Ok, Ive finally caught up on this thread. It’s moving so fast.. or I’m moving slow.

Don’t laugh at me but I think I fancy Dr Noname, I actually went a bit weak at the knees reading his texts. Can I have him please? He’s adorable.

He's sweet

 

[Takemetoyourbuffet]

'Swastika garden theory'

There's a phrase I hadn't expected to be reading today