Lucy Letby case #22

[raspberryjuice]

Reminder from previous threads:

Instant ban for anyone sniping or arguing on this thread. No time for this constant mess. Agree to disagree and scroll on.

Thanks to @Tofino for the fabulous wiki

Another great source for keeping up to date is The Trial of Lucy Letby Podcast available on the Daily Mail site, as well as Spotify.
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Poll results from thread 21

 

[MmmB777]

Dan is there today and has started

 

[Daisydunn15]

Reminder from previous threads:



Thanks to @Tofino for the fabulous wiki

Another great source for keeping up to date is The Trial of Lucy Letby Podcast available on the Daily Mail site, as well as Spotify.
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Poll results from thread 21

View attachment 1983923

I didnt realise how many people feel she's guilty of some but not others.

Do people reckon that might happen? There are without a doubt some babies with lots of evidence and some with very little, but I reckon if they're going to find her guilty they'll reach the same verdict for each charge.

 

[raspberryjuice]

I agree, I think they’ll find her guilty of all if they believe she’s guilty of some. I do think some of the babies haven’t been very clear about what evidence there actually is other than she was there and the baby collapsed. I do believe she’s guilty of all (and more), but for some of the charges if I was hearing that as a stand alone case I’d struggle to understand why she has been charged. It’s the bigger picture and how it all comes together that would convince me she’s guilty of every charge.

 

[Daisydunn15]

I agree, I think they’ll find her guilty of all if they believe she’s guilty of some. I do think some of the babies haven’t been very clear about what evidence there actually is other than she was there and the baby collapsed. I do believe she’s guilty of all (and more), but for some of the charges if I was hearing that as a stand alone case I’d struggle to understand why she has been charged. It’s the bigger picture and how it all comes together that would convince me she’s guilty of every charge.

I really think the judge's direction to the jury will be important. If they emphasise that they're separate charges and so the burden of proof needs to be met for each one and they need to be convinced beyond reasonable doubt then I think they'll struggle. I know we aren't hearing and seeing everything but I feel like significant evidence would have been reported.

 

[dual2099]

Somebody posted on one of the FB groups about the notes and blood gas readings that were found at her home.,.well she said as a nurse she’s kept such things in her locker for over a year only to take it home to sort out. Also the age old argument again of ‘if she’s guilty why wouldn’t she destroy it’ too many cluedo players around!! I don’t understand she could have destroyed anything relating to the hospital if she wasn’t guilty if she knew she was under suspicion, you’ll hardly leave a blood gas reading under the bed for the police to find to say well I’ll leave it there ok not guilty anyway!

 

[MmmB777]

I agree, I think they’ll find her guilty of all if they believe she’s guilty of some. I do think some of the babies haven’t been very clear about what evidence there actually is other than she was there and the baby collapsed. I do believe she’s guilty of all (and more), but for some of the charges if I was hearing that as a stand alone case I’d struggle to understand why she has been charged. It’s the bigger picture and how it all comes together that would convince me she’s guilty of every charge.

I think the prosecution’s whole case is based on the big picture. There’s no way you can separate the relevance of two poisoned babies.
I think the judge will direct to look at the whole picture as they did for Bev.

 

[Aberscot]

Prof Hindmarsh has just spoke at length about various blood readings and calculations...Prosecutor Nick Johnson KC says, as he concludes, 'that's probably quite hard for the jury to follow' - the judge says 'me too'. Similar feelings in press gallery

Thats from Dans twitter, feck me glad I ain’t on the jury if the judge can’t follow it I would have no chance

 

[Haveyouanywool]

 

[SundaysChild]

I think the prosecution’s whole case is based on the big picture. There’s no way you can separate the relevance of two poisoned babies.
I think the judge will direct to look at the whole picture as they did for Bev.

It has to be doesn't it I suppose, one makes sense along side the other, but stand alone, it wouldn't. I always think back to the pencil theory when I'm feeling a bit unsure of her guilt on each individual case

 

[Appletiser]

It has to be doesn't it I suppose, one makes sense along side the other, but stand alone, it wouldn't. I always think back to the pencil theory when I'm feeling a bit unsure of her guilt on each individual case

what’s the pencil theory plz?

 

[SundaysChild]

what’s the pencil theory plz?

I hope I have done this right, I've shared from thread #13

Lucy Letby Case #13

Remember from the start of the case it was stated the text messages are agreed evidence - defence were served a copy and were allowed to add any others they felt relevant that prosecution didn’t include. Any messages not included are agreed by both sides not to be relevant to the case. With...

tattle.life

 

[Haveyouanywool]

Interesting. Does anyone know the duration of the infusion bags and who is likely to have made up/administered all 3 of them? I’m taking it the likely culprit for contamination is still the glucose infusion.

 

[DellaC]

It has to be doesn't it I suppose, one makes sense along side the other, but stand alone, it wouldn't. I always think back to the pencil theory when I'm feeling a bit unsure of her guilt on each individual case

Love the pencil theory. What a fantastic analogy.

 

[Tofino]

I really think the judge's direction to the jury will be important. If they emphasise that they're separate charges and so the burden of proof needs to be met for each one and they need to be convinced beyond reasonable doubt then I think they'll struggle. I know we aren't hearing and seeing everything but I feel like significant evidence would have been reported.

It will definitely be interesting to see what judges directions will be but prosecution did say in opening statement that the jury are allowed to look at evidence (of child a and b) in the context of what they say she did to other children, and her having poisoned two other children. Judge allowed pros to say that so it does sound like they will be allowed to consider the cases linked as a whole and not just individually

 

[raspberryjuice]

Dans report for today:

Lucy Letby: Baby's blood sugar dangerously low, trial told

Lucy Letby is accused of adding insulin to an infant's feed bag, the nurse's trial hears.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[Court0x0]

Their case isn’t strong enough I fear. I feel for the families if not justice is served. Particularly those of the baby who was injected with insulin.

Is anyone else seriously on the fence? She is the common denominator but at the same there is no smoking gun. As far as I can see there is a small chance she could be innocent. Wrong place wrong time. And if that’s so I don’t feel like a jury will send her down for so long. I wouldn’t.

I hope there’s something more, some more evidence to incriminate her.

Does anyone know if she had any type of examination of her mental state?

 

[raspberryjuice]

Their case isn’t strong enough I fear. I feel for the families if not justice is served. Particularly those of the baby who was injected with insulin.

Is anyone else seriously on the fence? She is the common denominator but at the same there is no smoking gun. As far as I can see there is a small chance she could be innocent. Wrong place wrong time. And if that’s so I don’t feel like a jury will send her down for so long. I wouldn’t.

I hope there’s something more, some more evidence to incriminate her.

Does anyone know if she had any type of examination of her mental state?

Something more like the note where she says she did it??

She is clearly fit for trial so no issues with her mental health.

 

[MmmB777]

Are there any serial killers that wouldn’t come off looking less guilty if you looked at each murder on an individual basis and then also picked apart each aspect of the crime/supporting evidence separately to each other. Loads of things are perfectly innocent if not combined with the overriding picture, physical evidence, witness evidence etc etc!
There is an absolute abundance of evidence for a crime of this nature imo. It has literally everything!

Also someone has poisoned two babies. Someone on the ward wanted to harm babies. Lucy and Ben aren’t disputing that. I think it is safe to say it is also the person giving cares just before to lots of babies dying and arresting, many who have huge amounts of air in them, physical injuries, excess milk.. who also has a less than healthy interest in their families and was able to link them way before they were suspicious to anybody and wrote a note saying she is evil.

 

[Tofino]

Are there any serial killers that wouldn’t come off looking less guilty if you looked at each murder on an individual basis and then also picked apart each aspect of the crime/supporting evidence separately to each other. Loads of things are perfectly innocent if not combined with the overriding picture, physical evidence, witness evidence etc etc!
There is an absolute abundance of evidence for a crime of this nature imo. It has literally everything!

Also someone has poisoned two babies. Someone on the ward wanted to harm babies. Lucy and Ben aren’t disputing that. I think it is safe to say it is also the person giving cares just before to lots of babies dying and arresting, many who have huge amounts of air in them, physical injuries, excess milk.. who also has a less than healthy interest in their families and was able to link them way before they were suspicious to anybody and wrote a note saying she is evil.

Yes I used this example in the early threads but if Wayne Couzens had pleaded not guilty, one of the pieces of evidence shown in trial would be him buying black rubble bags in B&Q. Literally thousands of people buy rubble bags for innocent reasons. But we know he bought them for a sinister reason. Just because there can be an innocent explanation doesn’t mean it’s not also sinister. And how many coincidences and potentially sinister explanations does there need to be until we say, ok this is no longer normal.

There is never going to be a smoking gun because of the nature of these crimes. What are the probabilities of Lucy co-incidentally being placed for 17 of these babies, 22 incidents/charges, even with extra shifts? I think they said the next highest was 7? So three times as many as the next highest member of staff.

and then all the other possibly sinister stuff - photos, cards, paperwork, Facebook searches in sets, ‘I did this on purpose’ note.

For me it’s way beyond reasonable doubt when you put all of it together. The only thing that would make me doubt now is if Ben Myers has multiple experts of different professions contradicting the causes of death/collapses. But I don’t think he will.