Lucy Letby case #22

[docmum]

I’d say please keep the Google thing as open minded as you can. I have apps for antibiotic formularies and for certain blood tests/meanings on my phone. I have NICE cks guidelines open on my desktop at work and I absolutely always check the BNF or the NICE guidance for doses of medications in children and pregnant women. Might be for amoxicillin which can be several times a day for the same aged children, but I still check - the same way I always check the calpol bottle when giving any to my own (literally last night did this and couldn’t remember their age for a few seconds even when I did check ). There is so much going on in healthcare, and guidance can change often too. There can be huge changes in doses of meds or sizes of tubes in different aged children - more so in the weights of neonates. This line would have to have been ‘signed off’ previously by a senior doctor if the doctor was expected to be doing it independently - perhaps they were due to talk through it to a junior/student so wanted to use the official teaching website to do so, maybe they had been in general paediatrics and away from neonatal medicine for a few months so wanted to refresh. Maybe there was more negligent behaviour in play and I am defending something genuinely done wrong.
All I’d say is that if you see a doctor looking up or checking something in front of you and discussing it, it probably should give you more confidence that they respect their limitations and acknowledge patient safety rather than assuming their incompetence.xxx

 

[Tofino]

Are there any serial killers that wouldn’t come off looking less guilty if you looked at each murder on an individual basis and then also picked apart each aspect of the crime/supporting evidence separately to each other. Loads of things are perfectly innocent if not combined with the overriding picture, physical evidence, witness evidence etc etc!
There is an absolute abundance of evidence for a crime of this nature imo. It has literally everything!

Also someone has poisoned two babies. Someone on the ward wanted to harm babies. Lucy and Ben aren’t disputing that. I think it is safe to say it is also the person giving cares just before to lots of babies dying and arresting, many who have huge amounts of air in them, physical injuries, excess milk.. who also has a less than healthy interest in their families and was able to link them way before they were suspicious to anybody and wrote a note saying she is evil.

Yes I used this example in the early threads but if Wayne Couzens had pleaded not guilty, one of the pieces of evidence shown in trial would be him buying black rubble bags in B&Q. Literally thousands of people buy rubble bags for innocent reasons. But we know he bought them for a sinister reason. Just because there can be an innocent explanation doesn’t mean it’s not also sinister. And how many coincidences and potentially sinister explanations does there need to be until we say, ok this is no longer normal.

There is never going to be a smoking gun because of the nature of these crimes. What are the probabilities of Lucy co-incidentally being placed for 17 of these babies, 22 incidents/charges, even with extra shifts? I think they said the next highest was 7? So three times as many as the next highest member of staff.

and then all the other possibly sinister stuff - photos, cards, paperwork, Facebook searches in sets, ‘I did this on purpose’ note.

For me it’s way beyond reasonable doubt when you put all of it together. The only thing that would make me doubt now is if Ben Myers has multiple experts of different professions contradicting the causes of death/collapses. But I don’t think he will.

 

[Takemetoyourbuffet]

LL: "I don't fancy him" .... proceeds to check his fb profile 262216 times.

 

[Lucyxxxx]

If we could do thread titles I'd have to come in with this

#23

Lucy Letby - beige, enraged and locked in a cage.

 

[DellaC]

Sorry I'm a bit new to the thread, why do you call her beige?

Other than the penchant for murder she's very nondescript.

She's a young woman but dresses and acts like a pensioner.

If she was a biscuit, she'd be a Rich Tea.

 

[Tofino]

Let’s say for a moment Lucy is innocent.

She was briefly watching this baby whilst the designated nurse popped to see the parents. Baby desaturated but, with help, recovered and a few hours later was moved to another hospital.

A few years later she is told by the police what Dr J witnessed and asked about it. Why does she even remember this baby?

We know she remembers the baby because she Facebook searched the parents years later and has a response to the police that actually confirms some of the events Dr J wrote in his statement (like no alarm).

What is so significant about this baby that she can remember it out of the many hundreds she would have looked after?

This is one of those occasions that had there been no Facebook searches I would actually say I can understand her not remembering the baby because her interaction was so brief.

She seems to remember things she shouldn’t and forget things she should!

 

[Tofino]

Dr Jayaram says he was aware Joanne Williams was going to the labour ward to update the parents on Child K.

He said he was sitting at a desk around the corner from the entrance to nursery room 1. He says he was writing in notes, or waiting for the transfer team to come back.

He said he had been told Lucy Letby would be 'babysitting' at the time.

He says, at this point, in February, he was aware of 'unexpected/unusual events' and that Lucy Letby had been present.

He said: "I felt extremely uncomfortable [with Lucy Letby being there alone in the room with Child K]

"You can call me hysterical, completely irrational, but because of this association...

"This thought kept coming into my head. After two, two and a half minutes...I went to prove to myself that I was being ridiculous and irrational and got up.

"I think it was 2.5, 3 minutes after Jo had gone to the labour ward.

"I had not been called to review Child K, I had not been called because alarms had gone off - I would have heard an alarm. I got up and walked through to see [Child K]."

Dr Jayaram entered.

"I saw Lucy Letby standing by the incubator. I saw her, and looked up at the monitor, and K's saturations were dropping, in the 80s and continued to drop. The ventilator was not giving out an alarm.

"I recall looking up and saying 'what's going on?' and Lucy said something along the lines of 'She's having a desaturation'."

Asked what Letby was doing, Dr Jayaram replied: "Nothing."

He says Letby didn't say anything to Dr Jayaram until he had walked over and he had asked her what was going on.

 

[Stiltoncheese]

That whole 'had a strange message from x'....'but I don't fancy him'...totally reads as someone with a big crush looking for an excuse to get someone else's view on whether they think it might be reciprocated whilst pretending they don't really have a crush kind of scenario

It's exactly the sort of message I would have sent a friend in my late teens if I really fancied someone and was trying to over analyse a message without giving the game away to my mates that I liked the person.

I'll put money on it being the doctor who made her cry in court.

Given the significance they are putting on this as it's largely irrelevant in the current context, I would assume that this unnamed doctor must play a more significant part in prosecution evidence in baby N or beyond as otherwise its just gossipy nonsense.

 

[IGiveUp22]

Dr Jayaram says he was aware Joanne Williams was going to the labour ward to update the parents on Child K.

He said he was sitting at a desk around the corner from the entrance to nursery room 1. He says he was writing in notes, or waiting for the transfer team to come back.

He said he had been told Lucy Letby would be 'babysitting' at the time.

He says, at this point, in February, he was aware of 'unexpected/unusual events' and that Lucy Letby had been present.

He said: "I felt extremely uncomfortable [with Lucy Letby being there alone in the room with Child K]

"You can call me hysterical, completely irrational, but because of this association...

"This thought kept coming into my head. After two, two and a half minutes...I went to prove to myself that I was being ridiculous and irrational and got up.

"I think it was 2.5, 3 minutes after Jo had gone to the labour ward.

"I had not been called to review Child K, I had not been called because alarms had gone off - I would have heard an alarm. I got up and walked through to see [Child K]."

Dr Jayaram entered.

"I saw Lucy Letby standing by the incubator. I saw her, and looked up at the monitor, and K's saturations were dropping, in the 80s and continued to drop. The ventilator was not giving out an alarm.

"I recall looking up and saying 'what's going on?' and Lucy said something along the lines of 'She's having a desaturation'."

Asked what Letby was doing, Dr Jayaram replied: "Nothing."

He says Letby didn't say anything to Dr Jayaram until he had walked over and he had asked her what was going on.

This for me is VERY compelling evidence. I would need the defence to come up with something quite significant to make me doubt her guilt across all charges at this point

 

[DellaC]

No wonder he didn’t want his name known !

I hope he didn't bonk her on the bed that had her bag of delights under it

Seriously though, it must've been a particularly difficult revelation for him if he was romantically involved with her, especially following her arrest.

I split up with my 1st serious boyfriend because he was a drunk and he pooed on my living room carpet, I chucked him out and he accidentally fell into my neighbours bed (and vagina). I was only in my early twenties but I thought it was a dramatic ending to a relationship. But Dr Noname and his SK liver Letby have trumped that

 

[raspberryjuice]

She’s a cunt.

Sorry, but there’s no other word for her.

 

[Ohnoshebettadont]

The thing I struggle with is her age. a 25/26 year old baby killer if she’s guilty. Not even jaded by life yet, why if she’s guilty?!!! Insecure?

I think it’s useful to remember IF she is guilty it’s likely she has a personality disorder or psychological problem. You are thinking from the perspective of a well adjusted person- most people couldn’t do a thing like this as we have empathy. Narcissists or psychopaths don’t have any concern for the feelings of others and act purely in their own interest. I’ve been reading about the covert narcissist lately, for uni & some of it made me think of this case. A covert narcissist has “a need to be in control of all situations and often does what they want in blatant disregard of rules, others’ perceptions, or the impact of their behavior on others.”
Remember her being the face of the Unit’s charity? Well “The strong desire for positive or admirable recognition can propel the covert narcissist to appear altruistic in public.”

Earlier in the trial we saw how LL messaged her colleagues, parents and friends about the babies, how she revisited the Facebook pages of the parents, went out of her way to be involved in the post death routines of the babies, being near the emotional agony of the parents:
“Often, covert narcissists thrive on the pain of others, and will flip between being a victim, being abusive, and being the hero. They will think nothing of harming others if it makes them look like a victim to others. Examples could be spreading rumours that someone is a bully in the workplace, hurting that persons reputation whilst centring themselves as a victim, to an extreme example of harming their own children in private to seem like a doting mother publicly”.
I’m not saying that LL is a covert narcissist but it’s been helpful for me to frame it like she is. Theoretically it’s possible she thrives on having people feel sorry for her, or thinking about how difficult her job as a nurse is, and because she doesn’t have normal human feelings she hurt the babies to create more sympathy and attention on herself. It helped me get my head round this horrendous crime as no normal person could do this.

 

[docmum]

He sounds like a nice guy tbf - he obviously cared. But I think he’ll be in a lot of trouble via work/GMC for discussing patients via fb since it’ll all be handled so delicately. On top of obviously having some emotional relationship with her at least and all that goes with that.

 

[SnoopySnooper86]

I’m going to skirt round the issue that this tweeter is fcking insane… But how’s this a swastika? Talk about a fucking reach.

The room has 4 corners minus the number of hands Lucy has therefore it’s conspiracy!!!

 

[BooksNCats]

Just going back to the conversation a few pages back, I am a teacher is a post-16 college so we often have students who seemingly disappear sometimes And we never see them again. I can hold my hands up and say that, yes, I have searched some Of them on FB. Not with any intention of interacting with them but just to check that they’re doing okay. I know I couldn’t do anything even if they aren’t but sometimes, I’d really struggle worrying about them.

However, if something sinister had happened to one of those kids and the police asked me why I’d searched them on Facebook, I’d firstly be massively apologetic and then tell them exactly why I’d searched them, or likely searched them if I couldn’t specifically remember them (Though I can’t imagine forgetting them). I’d do everything in my power to help the police Even if it mean admitting I did something I know I shouldn’t have.

Ive voted Unsure in every poll but, honestly, now things are getting a little more concrete, I’m starting to think Guilty.

 

[avabella]

Am I the only one that is appalled by the use of the wrong ‘your’ in the Drs message? standard of education tanking.

 

[MmmB777]

Someone has suggested on Facebook the whole thing is an advert and publicity stunt for the neonatal unit to gain charity money

Good lord. How did that convo go down.
Cake sale this year Jean? No we did that last year. Oo I know, fun run? No, we’ve done that too.
Ok this one might sound a bit odd, hear me out..what if we..

 

[Wackie Jeaver]

I read but don't often comment. I just wish, for the sake of those poor parents and their babies that this would be over soon.

 

[DellaC]

There's been more than one anonymous nurse so could well be more than one medic but I wish they'd differentiate in some way, just to make it a bit easier to follow!

Yes!
1-Drnonametheonethatbangedletby
2-Drnonamedefinitelydidnt

 

[gigilouxx]

I could be sick at the mere thought of her dressing those babies, putting them into their cots, wrapping them into a blanket after what she has apparently done to them. That’s the most stomach turning thing for me, only a complete psychopath could do that.